schmittel wrote: » Nobody is going to object to unionists waving the red hand anywhere in the country any more than they object to Munster flag flying. Similarly I doubt we’ll pass laws banning them painting symbols and murals on the sides of their houses. Let them do as they please, as long as it’s within the law, and the laws are the same for everybody. Modern Ireland is a pretty tolerant and inclusive society overall. We don’t need to go the extra mile for unionists.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » No. The flag is the flag until there an agreement between people to change it. As I said, the tail will not wag the dog in a United Ireland. I suspect that unionists would rather have nailed-down rights on flags and symbols they subscribe to in the northeast of the country.
FrancieBrady wrote: » That's just one of the opinions that will be around the table. You can't exclude people just because you disagree with their opinion. Well obviously, you can exclude as people have been excluded in NI and here, but you shouldn't do it if they are happy to make democratic decisions after discussion.
eire4 wrote: » For me personally I have always preferred the 4 provinces flag and its what I fly outside my house most of the year. I go with the tricolour for March for instance. But I highly doubt we would change the flag after reunification. To do that I think it would only be ok only if a majority agreed with changing the flag and that is not happening I would think. I have never been a big fan of our national anthem either. Just never found it very uplifting or inspiring. But again it should only be changed if a majority agree it should. Unionists should certainly be listened to and other then the extremist's their concerns taken into consideration in the reunification process but as you say the tail will not and it should not wag the dog when it comes to Irish reunification.
ineedeuro wrote: » Really? you spend every day trying to exclude every opinion apart from your own from the conversation. You are right and everyone else is wrong, if they don't admit you are right cue trying to ridicule them. Look at the last few days of posting. Some debate?
This whole thread is confirmation Ireland will never be "United", still too much hate. Some people just want a "United Ireland" so you can divide the exclude huge section of the population both North & South of the border. A "United Ireland" at this moment in time based on this thread would end up with a worse situation than in Northern Ireland in the 70's Some achievement.
ineedeuro wrote: » If you don't want to exclude certain sections of the community from day 1 the Irish flag goes. So does the national anthem. Others as well.
ineedeuro wrote: » If you don't want to exclude certain sections of the community from day 1 the Irish flag goes. So does the national anthem. Others as well. It's not a case of the majority, it is a United Ireland, a new Ireland. We are joining loads of different communities under one flag and that will have to be a new one.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » So now 'certain sections' of the unionist community who just voted against a United Ireland and lost will be demanding the abolition of the flag, the anthem, and whatever else they don't like the look of? Lol, no.
FrancieBrady wrote: » If the DUP ask for the Union Jack to be included on the new flag as it is in some former colonies would you be happy with that?
ineedeuro wrote: » Yes. If anyone thinks a United Ireland starts with the Irish flag they need to wake up. Even the Sinn Fein lady who hadn't a clue could tell they would need to change it. This "United Ireland" doesn't seem very united based on your posting, how do you think it will work?
ineedeuro wrote: » The Union Jack and Tri Colour are part of old Ireland. A new United Ireland has a new flag.
FrancieBrady wrote: » But if they ask, which I think is a bolt on certainty that some will, what will be your answer?
FrancieBrady wrote: » Did somebody just get upset about 'ridicule' innedeuro, you have just proven that you can't even live in the state we have in a 'united' way based on your previous post. That's called 'hoist by your own petard' I think.
ineedeuro wrote: » So I have a different opinion and off you start, true to form, trying to ridicule the poster. No thanks.
PeaSea wrote: » Most unionists dont actually know that the orange in the flag represents them. They are more likely to call it "green white and gold". Education on this point would be an eye-opening starter.
FrancieBrady wrote: » NI ended up in the situation it was in the 70's because of exclusion.
eire4 wrote: » But I highly doubt we would change the flag after reunification. To do that I think it would only be ok only if a majority agreed with changing the flag and that is not happening I would think. I have never been a big fan of our national anthem either. Just never found it very uplifting or inspiring. But again it should only be changed if a majority agree it should. Unionists should certainly be listened to and other then the extremist's their concerns taken into consideration in the reunification process but as you say the tail will not and it should not wag the dog when it comes to Irish reunification.
blanch152 wrote: » Doesn't matter, the flag has become a symbol of terrorism. The way it was misappropriated by SF/IRA was a disgrace. The idea of the flag signifying peace between green and orange is a nice ideal, but the actual practical use of the flag in Northern Ireland has only created division. No amount of "education" will take away from the abuse of the flag by SF/IRA.
droidman123 wrote: » By that logic the union flag is a symbol of world wide terrorism considering the atrocities committed under it.
blanch152 wrote: » In what way was the Union Jack misappropriated by non-State actors who then engaged in terrorist activities? Actually, scratch that, no point in going down another whataboutery route following criticism of SF/IRA.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Why aren't you lobbying for a change now? Hard to believe that you think there is remotely any logic in your position.
the actual practical use of the flag in Northern Ireland has only created division
droidman123 wrote: » Ok so you dont agree that there were worldwide atrocities committed under the union flag?
blanch152 wrote: » I didn't address that issue, and I won't be addressing that issue, which has nothing to do with the point I made. The Irish flag has been misappropriated by non-State actors (SF/IRA) who then engaged in terrorist activities. You whatabouted the Union Jack. I am not aware of any incidents of the misappropriation of the Union Jack by non-State actors who then engaged in terrorist activities. If you are aware of such examples, please let me know.
droidman123 wrote: » Ok so by your deflection i will take it that you dont agree
blanch152 wrote: » The flag is an affront and an insult to the unionist population in Northern Ireland
blanch152 wrote: » What??!!??? The flag is an affront and an insult to the unionist population in Northern Ireland but I am not seeking to persuade them into a united Ireland at this point in time. I clearly referenced the use of the flag in Northern Ireland. I really wish you would stop the blatant misrepresentation of what others say.
blanch152 wrote: » I am not addressing an irrelevant whataboutery point. That doesn't mean I agree or disagree. If there is a relevant comparative example, I will address that, but I couched my position in particular limited terms that don't apply outside of that.
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