FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Fann Linn wrote: »

I heard Donnelly's incoherent ramblings today at 1.00 and he was pathetic. However, the options that are being given out now by Nphet are so off the wall and contradictory that I don't think anyone could really believe them and communicate them out to a wider audience.

Where would I like to see a difference? For a start they could demand a bit more efficiency in getting the data released and debated and certainly not handed into a Minister of Health half an hour before a cabinet meeting.

Secondly, Donnelly was at pains to day to state that he was going to meet reps from the hospitality sector ASAP. Someone from the industry made the point later today that he hadn't met them to date.

So you're right Francie, nobody in all of DE including the Healy Rae's and Mattie McGrath could be as poor as Stephen Donnelly if they were in charge of the Health portfolio.

NPHET have been allowed to work like an independent body. They work for the government (i.e. us)
Varadkar had a pop at undermining them in public as if they were political foes which was astonishing really.
They ignored the advice and then had to quickly enact it when things went tits up. Just pure chaos really.

If there are issues between them...sort it out in private. The undermining was ridiculous and has added to the confusion as to who is in control/charge.
And sort out the leaking and kiteflying.
One briefing by the relevant minister every week for the public - clear and agreed with NPHET should be adequate. Not the sham where we have every ego on radio speculating and hinting before anything is properly decided.

Fann Linn

ineedeuro wrote: »

From? I don’t think any organisation is going to come in without weeks reviewing and say they are wrong. Again people dying

There's been 'medical experts' on most media programmes over the last few days crying out to see Nphets data on these latest figures. This is the crowd who thought we were too thick to wear a mask properly. This is the crowd who don't believe in using Antigen testing as an aid. This is the crowd that won't debate or answer opposition TDs questions and again, this is the crowd who believe it's ok for a 20 something to serve you or me a meal unvaccinated but it's not okay for them to eat their own lunch in the same hotel, pub or cafe.

Does that seem logical to you?

Fann Linn wrote: »

There's been 'medical experts' on most media programmes over the last few days crying out to see Nphets data on these latest figures. This is the crowd who thought we were too thick to wear a mask properly. This is the crowd who don't believe in using Antigen testing as an aid. This is the crowd that won't debate or answer opposition TDs questions and again, this is the crowd who believe it's ok for a 20 something to serve you or me a meal unvaccinated but it's not okay for them to eat their own lunch in the same hotel, pub or cafe.

Does that seem logical to you?

They also warn us that you can still get Covid even if vaccinated and spread it.

That last one is a misnomer Francie
Its a line peddled by vintners trying to pull the wool over
Serving vaccinated people is probably one of the least dangerous places a server could be

ineedeuro

Fann Linn wrote: »

There's been 'medical experts' on most media programmes over the last few days crying out to see Nphets data on these latest figures. This is the crowd who thought we were too thick to wear a mask properly. This is the crowd who don't believe in using Antigen testing as an aid. This is the crowd that won't debate or answer opposition TDs questions and again, this is the crowd who believe it's ok for a 20 something to serve you or me a meal unvaccinated but it's not okay for them to eat their own lunch in the same hotel, pub or cafe.

Does that seem logical to you?

I walk around and everyday I see people of all ages wearing the mask wrong. Most without their nose covered…..

I already explained the restaurant update from my point of view and makes sense to me.

ineedeuro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They also warn us that you can still get Covid even if vaccinated and spread it.

I think you mean you can still carry covid even if vaccinated, which means you can still spread it to unvaccinated people

Marine Layer wrote: »

That last one is a misnomer Francie
Its a line peddled by vintners trying to pull the wool over
Serving vaccinated people is probably one of the least dangerous places a server could be

It may or may not be>

But you too seem confused. The HSE beg to differ. There is a chance you can get Covid and the ability to spread it is unknown

https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/astrazeneca/immunity/

Calhoun

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It may or may not be>

But you too seem confused. The HSE beg to differ. There is a chance you can get Covid and the ability to spread it is unknown

https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/astrazeneca/immunity/

I had thought this was common knowledge, even when fully vacinated you should still wear a mask ect because you could catch it and spread it on.

I guess it wasn't as well known as i thought.

markodaly

Marine Layer wrote: »

You can't escape Francie,
You're all rules for thee but not for me in your discussions

100%

Leo got roasted on Radio 1. As usual the govt have done no contingency planning. Delta has been around since March but it sounds like the Nphet suggestion of the Green Cert was the first time the govt ever considered it as an option. All over the shop again.

is_that_so

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Leo got roasted on Radio 1. As usual the govt have done no contingency planning. Delta has been around since March but it sounds like the Nphet suggestion of the Green Cert was the first time the govt ever considered it as an option. All over the shop again.

Their position and policy all along was not to use it domestically. NPHET too are against the use of PCR for travel. This is rerun of October where NPHET do their version of the "smoky backrooms" and make decisions without telling anyone. The government will get roasted because they will comply with almost any recommendation.

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Leo got roasted on Radio 1. As usual the govt have done no contingency planning. Delta has been around since March but it sounds like the Nphet suggestion of the Green Cert was the first time the govt ever considered it as an option. All over the shop again.

How many times did he say 'Well I don't know'?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It may or may not be>

But you too seem confused. The HSE beg to differ. There is a chance you can get Covid and the ability to spread it is unknown

https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/astrazeneca/immunity/

I said least dangerous..I didn't say safe..

Seriously, Francie,you are using all the language you decry government politicians for,to try and obliquely (in vain) evade
Its as I've said yesterday discussion rules for thee but not for me hypocrisy,
With that you're quite effectively shooting your own posts credibility right out of the water again and again and again
Fascinating, only for the fact obliqueness bores me

Marine Layer wrote: »

I said least dangerous..I didn't say safe..

Seriously, Francie,you are using all the language you decry government politicians for,to try and obliquely (in vain) evade
Its as I've said yesterday discussion rules for thee but not for me hypocrisy,
With that you're quite effectively shooting your own posts credibility right out of the water again and again and again
Fascinating, only for the fact obliqueness bores me

You also said 'it was peddled by vintners' when it is there on the HSE site.

Own what you say and stop attacking me for being better informed than you. You are 'confused about the information' the very thing I was talking about.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You also said 'it was peddled by vintners' when it is there on the HSE site.

Own what you say and stop attacking me for being better informed than you. You are 'confused about the information' the very thing I was talking about.

It is peddled by vintners...all over the news yesterday which is what I said
Saying its safe is not what I said
Here you go again with the language you decry the government for,oblique,oblique, oblique
Carry on with the hypocrisy, it matters not a jot to me,I'll still make my points regardless

Marine Layer wrote: »

It is peddled by vintners...all over the news yesterday which is what I said
Saying its safe is not what I said
Here you go again with the language you decry the government for,oblique,oblique, oblique
Carry on with the hypocrisy, it matters not a jot to me,I'll still make my points regardless

As somebody who puts such great value in the 'use of language', would you mind showing me where I said YOU said it was 'safe'?

You are doing the typical thing government defenders do here, inventing/mis-representing/lying about what is being said and then arguing against/criticising the poster. There will probably be one of those defenders along shortly to give you 100% marks, so at least you have that.

I also haven't tried to silence you, so the line about you 'carrying on regardless' is strange. A bit of a persecution complex there maybe?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As somebody who puts such great value in the 'use of language', would you mind showing me where I said YOU said it was 'safe'?

More obliqueness
You didn't
You implied I said it wasn't dangerous
I replied that I didn't say it was safe
I said it was one of the least dangerous (to be among vaccinated)
But hey carry on being oblique and giving out about politicians being the same..

You are doing the typical thing government defenders do here, inventing/mis-representing/lying about what is being said and then arguing against/criticising the poster. There will probably be one of those defenders along shortly to give you 100% marks, so at least you have that.

How much oblique evasion can you carry in that sack of yours?

I also haven't tried to silence you, so the line about you 'carrying on regardless' is strange. A bit of a persecution complex there maybe?

You surely haven't, you're just upping the oblique gears and I'll take this opportunity to say thanks and to carry on proving my point

Marine Layer wrote: »

More obliqueness
You didn't [/QUOTE

Exactly, I didn't claim it, but you railed against it anyway and accuse me of being oblique!

What I did was, show you where wrong, it was something on the HSE website, not something 'peddled by vintners'.

It's gas that they are meeting the hospitality industry today to see if they have any bright ideas. Embarassing. It's almost July.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Marine Layer wrote: »

More obliqueness
You didn't

Exactly, I didn't claim it, but you railed against it anyway and accuse me of being oblique!

What I did was, show you where wrong, it was something on the HSE website, not something 'peddled by vintners'.

You know,least dangerous doesn't mean its safe yeah?
You know that's a clear statement
At this stage,you are actually attempting to be oblique about your obliqueness
I'm genuinely laughing now

Marine Layer wrote: »

You know,least dangerous doesn't mean its safe yeah?
You know that's a clear statement
At this stage,you are actually attempting to be oblique about your obliqueness
I'm genuinely laughing now

Not half the chuckle I am having at yet another poster getting caught in his own net of mis-representation/lying.

Let's roll back a bit and see if you will back up what you are NOW claiming.

As somebody who puts such great value in the 'use of language', would you mind showing me where I said YOU said it was 'safe'?

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0629/1232091-ministers-nphet-comment/

Consternation as ministers 'blindsided' by NPHET

However, it's an absolute minefield and the Government has provided little detail about the plan.

This situation might not have been so difficult for the Government, if there had been some planning about how such a policy would be introduced.

However, it does beg the question - could NPHET not have tipped-off the Health Minister that a significant change in policy might possibly be required?

The Chief Medical Officer and Health Minister work in the same building.

However, he also said that there was an effective relationship between the public health experts and the Cabinet.

But Opposition TDs believe there are significant questions about how they function together.

This is another fallout from the meaningful Christmas where the govt went against Nphet advice. The cabinet abdicated responsibility after that and now the two of them don't seem to be able to collaborate. Crazy stuff.

No plan. No details. Just chaos.

The old political adage that "if you are explaining, you are losing" most certainly applies here: the Government has a lot of explaining to do over the coming weeks.

Fann Linn

Ossian Smith GP getting the knockback also when calling for an independent review of the data according to the Indo this morning,

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not half the chuckle I am having at yet another poster getting caught in his own net of mis-representation/lying.

Let's roll back a bit and see if you will back up what you are NOW claiming.

Oh that's easy lad,you're now trying to be oblique about your obliqueness having been called out on it
It was you who misrepresented me in the first place as if I said least dangerous meant safe
I clarified that and now in oblique high gear you're off on one again trying (in vain) to turn that clarity into non clarity
Yoda would be proud of you
I've stopped laughing and am bored with the obliqueness tbh
It was curious for a while

Fann Linn wrote: »

Ossian Smith GP getting the knockback also when calling for an independent review of the data according to the Indo this morning,

I know,he's not liked by some here but Vradakar at least promised on morning Ireland today that all the modeling information assumptions etc will be made publicly available
SF are asking for this and they're going to get it
He said let it be analysed then by all the outside experts and let's hear what they say
If that does not happen, he can be legitimately called out on it
I'll start

Marine Layer wrote: »

Oh that's easy lad,you're now trying to be oblique about your obliqueness having been called out on it
It was you who misrepresented me in the first place as if I said least dangerous meant safe
I clarified that and now in oblique high gear you're off on one again trying (in vain) to turn that clarity into non clarity
Yoda would be proud of you
I've stopped laughing and am bored with the obliqueness tbh
It was curious for a while

So now what I said was 'as if' you 'said least dangerous meant' safe'.

That's a bit of movement I suppose.

Maybe you are right. Clearly what I 'said' was so oblique you can't fe'king find me saying it.

have a good day Marine. You need one!

Fann Linn wrote: »

Ossian Smith GP getting the knockback also when calling for an independent review of the data according to the Indo this morning,

Varadkar got hammered by Shortall for not briefing the opposition properly too yesterday. Spluttered and dithered about it when challenged on Morning Ireland.

And of course the mandatory, 'we'll look at that now' plámas.

We are well over a year into this, there should be no excuses at this stage.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So now what I said was 'as if' you 'said least dangerous meant' safe'.

That's a bit of movement I suppose.

Maybe you are right. Clearly what I 'said' was so oblique you can't fe'king find me saying it.

have a good day Marine. You need one!

Quad erat demonstrandum