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The Irish protocol.

downcow

The protocol will be challenged next week in the british high courts.
I am interested in what you guys believe is an appropriate way forward if it is declared illegal, as I have a haunch it will.
Is it appropriate to continue down an illegal road or will it be time for a rethink?

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FrancieBrady

Sam McBride taking a hammering on Twitter trying to blame all NI's ills on the Protocol when the blame lies with Brexit itself. The Newsletter taking sides again. Replete with Indo style sinister wording too....how would the cost of a Sainsbury sandwich be 'covertly' rising when the price is openly displayed?

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1408681268435374086

Junkyard Tom

If the clowns in charge in Britain weren't so incompetent you'd think they were deliberately creating trade instability between Britain and the north to expedite the United Ireland economy.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sam McBride taking a hammering on Twitter trying to blame all NI's ills on the Protocol when the blame lies with Brexit itself. The Newsletter taking sides again. Replete with Indo style sinister wording too....how would the cost of a Sainsbury sandwich be 'covertly' rising when the price is openly displayed?

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1408681268435374086

Thanks for this Francie. It is an excellent piece as usual from the reporter who hammered the dup on rhi.
It accurately potrays the non political issues with the protocol. The political issues are even greater.
You are naive if you think the Eu/Roi are not going to give any ground on this.

[Deleted User]

downcow wrote: »

Thanks for this Francie. It is an excellent piece as usual from the reporter who hammered the dup on rhi.
It accurately potrays the non political issues with the protocol. The political issues are even greater.
You are naive if you think the Eu/Roi are not going to give any ground on this.

I love the way the ROI now has the power via the EU to put the balls of the UK in a vice and screw. That's what should be done if the UK continue their antics in Ireland.

Shut down Calais to them.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Thanks for this Francie. It is an excellent piece as usual from the reporter who hammered the dup on rhi.
It accurately potrays the non political issues with the protocol. The political issues are even greater.
You are naive if you think the Eu/Roi are not going to give any ground on this.

You keep trying to set up the 'win' and I will KEEP telling you the EU will, by enacting the flexibilities and mechanisms within the WA and Protocol that the UK can't be arsed taking advantage of on YOUR behalf, ease the problems caused by the Protocol if there are any.

They will not however be able to make Unionists feel more loved by the British.

Speedline

https://www.thejournal.ie/northern-ireland-scotland-australia-trade-deal-5478888-Jun2021/

Is this a joke? Edwin Poots writing to the UK govt whining about the Australian trade deal, and claiming their beef is of a lower standard. This is one of the most relevant reasons why the protocol is in place, to stop that muck from entering Europe.

So on the one hand Edwin says there's no need for a protocol, and on the other hand he's afraid Australia will flood the UK with substandard meat. You couldn't make it up.

FrancieBrady

Speedline wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/northern-ireland-scotland-australia-trade-deal-5478888-Jun2021/

Is this a joke? Edwin Poots writing to the UK govt whining about the Australian trade deal, and claiming their beef is of a lower standard. This is one of the most relevant reasons why the protocol is in place, to stop that muck from entering Europe.

So on the one hand Edwin says there's no need for a protocol, and on the other hand he's afraid Australia will flood the UK with substandard meat. You couldn't make it up.

Key to where belligerent Unionism finds itself is the complete lack of a coherent strategy. What they are doing is flailing around looking for someone to blame. Screaming for someone to throw them a life belt but then drowning because they don't like the colour of it.

Suckler

Speedline wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/northern-ireland-scotland-australia-trade-deal-5478888-Jun2021/

Is this a joke? Edwin Poots writing to the UK govt whining about the Australian trade deal, and claiming their beef is of a lower standard. This is one of the most relevant reasons why the protocol is in place, to stop that muck from entering Europe.

So on the one hand Edwin says there's no need for a protocol, and on the other hand he's afraid Australia will flood the UK with substandard meat. You couldn't make it up.

No joke unfortunately. This is the DUP modus operandi: It's always someone else's fault.

downcow

Speedline wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/northern-ireland-scotland-australia-trade-deal-5478888-Jun2021/

Is this a joke? Edwin Poots writing to the UK govt whining about the Australian trade deal, and claiming their beef is of a lower standard. This is one of the most relevant reasons why the protocol is in place, to stop that muck from entering Europe.

So on the one hand Edwin says there's no need for a protocol, and on the other hand he's afraid Australia will flood the UK with substandard meat. You couldn't make it up.

I don’t know much about it but I understand that because of the extensive nature of Australian ranching there meat continues far less antibiotics and is grass reared in the main unlike some Irish and British meat which is intensively feed concentrates and pumped with antibiotics

Speedline

downcow wrote: »

I don’t know much about it but I understand that because of the extensive nature of Australian ranching there meat continues far less antibiotics and is grass reared in the main unlike some Irish and British meat which is intensively feed concentrates and pumped with antibiotics

Why is Poots complaining about the quality of the meat then?

Jizique

downcow wrote: »

I don’t know much about it but I understand that because of the extensive nature of Australian ranching there meat continues far less antibiotics and is grass reared in the main unlike some Irish and British meat which is intensively feed concentrates and pumped with antibiotics

News to most Irish farmers

CelticRambler

downcow wrote: »

I don’t know much about it but I understand that because of the extensive nature of Australian ranching there meat continues far less antibiotics and is grass reared in the main unlike some Irish and British meat which is intensively feed concentrates and pumped with antibiotics

(a) if you don't know much about something, you should properly inform yourself before posting stuff on the internet.

(b) antibiotics are expensive, so no cattle are "pumped" with them if the farmer wants to stay in business.

(c) don't lump Irish cattle/farming practices in with British producers. Irish standards (extended, generally to NI) are higher than those in GB. In fact, for the most part, the EU aligns its standards (on antibiotic and other medicines usage, at least) with Ireland and expects all other EU countries to follow our lead. Britain, on the other hand (not including NI) has refused to implement stricter minimum antibiotic residue levels because ... well, because Brexit means Brexit (oh, and also we want to be able to import any old crap from the other side of the world).

hometruths

downcow wrote: »

I don’t know much about it but I understand that because of the extensive nature of Australian ranching there meat continues far less antibiotics and is grass reared in the main unlike some Irish and British meat which is intensively feed concentrates and pumped with antibiotics

That is abundantly clear.

FrancieBrady

CelticRambler wrote: »

(a) if you don't know much about something, you should properly inform yourself before posting stuff on the internet.

(b) antibiotics are expensive, so no cattle are "pumped" with them if the farmer wants to stay in business.

(c) don't lump Irish cattle/farming practices in with British producers. Irish standards (extended, generally to NI) are higher than those in GB. In fact, for the most part, the EU aligns its standards (on antibiotic and other medicines usage, at least) with Ireland and expects all other EU countries to follow our lead. Britain, on the other hand (not including NI) has refused to implement stricter minimum antibiotic residue levels because ... well, because Brexit means Brexit (oh, and also we want to be able to import any old crap from the other side of the world).

Which is why Irish beef is a premium product. Even Paisley knew what side his bread was buttered on there.

Seth Brundle

downcow wrote: »

I don’t know much about it but I understand that because of the extensive nature of Australian ranching there meat continues far less antibiotics and is grass reared in the main unlike some Irish and British meat which is intensively feed concentrates and pumped with antibiotics

You are absolutely correct. You don't know much about it.
Australian beef and lamb is inferior to that sold in the EU. The UK want to import more of this cheap and lower quality meat.

downcow

Speedline wrote: »

Why is Poots complaining about the quality of the meat then?

He’s a farmer. That’s what farmers do when they see a threat on their market. I am not saying it’s good to have Australian meat. I am just saying let’s be honest and not turn it into a health issue

Seth Brundle

downcow wrote: »

He’s a farmer. That’s what farmers do when they see a threat on their market. I am not saying it’s good to have Australian meat. I am just saying let’s be honest and not turn it into a health issue

It a food standards and safety issue, which is an important issue.
I'm not sure why you're dismissing it though. It is not good to have Australian meat when you currently have a better and healthier product as standard.
Poots is correct to object to it. It's just unfortunate that he and his party campaigned for this very situation!

downcow

CelticRambler wrote: »

(a) if you don't know much about something, you should properly inform yourself before posting stuff on the internet.

(b) antibiotics are expensive, so no cattle are "pumped" with them if the farmer wants to stay in business.

(c) don't lump Irish cattle/farming practices in with British producers. Irish standards (extended, generally to NI) are higher than those in GB. In fact, for the most part, the EU aligns its standards (on antibiotic and other medicines usage, at least) with Ireland and expects all other EU countries to follow our lead. Britain, on the other hand (not including NI) has refused to implement stricter minimum antibiotic residue levels because ... well, because Brexit means Brexit (oh, and also we want to be able to import any old crap from the other side of the world).

I am a part-time farmer. I know how often animals get antibiotics on this island. Any ailment and they get a shot.
On ranches this doesn’t happen. Sick animals die.
So you can all jump up and down again. But if you are trying to convince posters that intensively farmed beef in Ireland gets less antibiotics as extensively ranched cattle then I think most posters will see right through. They only need to watch a good western and compare it to the farming programmes on local channels.
I’ll let them work out which cattle get most antibiotics

Seth Brundle

downcow wrote: »

I am a part-time farmer. I know how often animals get antibiotics on this island. Any ailment and they get a shot.

This is not normal. You're either exaggerating or you need to change your vet!

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I am a part-time farmer. I know how often animals get antibiotics on this island. Any ailment and they get a shot.
On ranches this doesn’t happen. Sick animals die.
So you can all jump up and down again. But if you are trying to convince posters that intensively farmed beef in Ireland gets less antibiotics as extensively ranched cattle then I think most posters will see right through. They only need to watch a good western and compare it to the farming programmes on local channels.
I’ll let them work out which cattle get most antibiotics

A few posts ago you didn't 'know a lot about it'.

At least it wasn't another 'friend' who told you this.

Speedline

downcow wrote: »

I am a part-time farmer. I know how often animals get antibiotics on this island. Any ailment and they get a shot.
On ranches this doesn’t happen. Sick animals die.
So you can all jump up and down again. But if you are trying to convince posters that intensively farmed beef in Ireland gets less antibiotics as extensively ranched cattle then I think most posters will see right through. They only need to watch a good western and compare it to the farming programmes on local channels.
I’ll let them work out which cattle get most antibiotics

I think it's more about the growth hormones the Aussies cattle are given. But you know this already I suspect.

downcow

Seth Brundle wrote: »

This is not normal. You're either exaggerating or you need to change your vet!

Well I guess you are not a farmer. It’s not the vet that gives antibiotics. Almost always it’s the farmer administers antibiotics.

Our beef is great but let’s not try and paint it as superior to everyone else in the world. A bit of honesty and reality

downcow

Speedline wrote: »

I think it's more about the growth hormones the Aussies cattle are given. But you know this already I suspect.

Well I don’t know it, hence I said that I don’t know much.
You may well be correct. I’ll see what google tells me. I was dispelling nonsense by a number of posters who were trying to tell me that the Eu was protecting us from antibiotics in meat, that’s all

Suckler

downcow wrote: »

I was dispelling nonsense by a number of posters who were trying to tell me that the Eu was protecting us from antibiotics in meat, that’s all

I would question what you do know then; there are stipulated withdrawal periods for antibiotic use in the animals we rear for precisely this reason.

Seth Brundle

downcow wrote: »

Well I guess you are not a farmer. It’s not the vet that gives antibiotics. Almost always it’s the farmer administers antibiotics.

I never claimed to be one.
However, whilst farmers administer the medication it is based on advice. Who advises you to treat your beasts with an antibiotic for "any ailment"?
Are you treating your animals based on your own initiative or on actual veterinary knowledge?

downcow wrote: »

Our beef is great but let’s not try and paint it as superior to everyone else in the world. A bit of honesty and reality

EU standards for beef and lamb production are the highest in the world. Who do you think produces superior quality meat?

Seth Brundle

downcow wrote: »

I was dispelling nonsense by a number of posters who were trying to tell me that the Eu was protecting us from antibiotics in meat, that’s all

I don't recall anyone making such a claim. Can you quote it for us?

FrancieBrady

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I don't recall anyone making such a claim. Can you quote it for us?

We're back to invent something that was said and then argue against it. Familiar tactic on these forums.

downcow

downcow wrote: »

Well I don’t know it, hence I said that I don’t know much.
You may well be correct. I’ll see what google tells me. I was dispelling nonsense by a number of posters who were trying to tell me that the Eu was protecting us from antibiotics in meat, that’s all

You are exactly right. The issue is growth promoters. While I would be opposed to these as I like animals keep as naturally as possible the risk to humans seems small compared to some of the stuff currently available in Eu eg https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/deadly-pesticides-in-eu-produce-from-turkey/a-52142826.
But still more checks from Gb into ni than turkey into Eu. Remarkable

downcow

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I never claimed to be one.
However, whilst farmers administer the medication it is based on advice. Who advises you to treat your beasts with an antibiotic for "any ailment"?
Are you treating your animals based on your own initiative or on actual veterinary knowledge?

EU standards for beef and lamb production are the highest in the world. Who do you think produces superior quality meat?

Wrong again. Farmers keep a supply of antibiotics and first sign of an off colour calf and it gets a jab

Seth Brundle

downcow wrote: »

But still more checks from Gb into ni than turkey into Eu. Remarkable

Says a lot about the UK government's implementation of the agreement!
You should ask your MP why they are not making sure that the NIP is being fully implemented and why the UK doesn't agree to the EU's food production standards to ensure minimal checks between the two islands.