monkeybutter wrote: » wait a second how do you know how many times it was?
JimmyVik wrote: » The house wasnt on the map though. The road would have been. You have to trust the map Unless you ask someone directions and you decide to do it without a map. But a killer is probably not going to ask for directions to the house of his victim tbf.
Mackinac wrote: » There was quite a lengthy article in The Observer magazine in 2000 which refers to Sophie having feuded with her neighbours over a shared gate being left open which Sophie felt should have been shut. It did not mention the names of the neighbours. Would this have been this same gate close to where Sophie was found?
Bannasidhe wrote: » And if a person reckoned they knew exactly where the house was without a map and they could rely on road signs and markings in West Cork in the 1990s then good luck to them with that. You were lucky if there was tarmac never mind a signpost. My point being all the experts claiming it was easy peasy to find in 1996 obviously didn't visit there in 1996. I did. It wasn't easy peasy. Ya'll can take that into account or not. No skin off my nose.
Bannasidhe wrote: » Did I say I got lost? No. I said a close friend of Alfie and Shirley's - who I was driving behind - got lost as Alfie had managed to camouflage his house by painting it sky blue. But sure Mr Snarky Pants - you know best because you can read a map. I'm sure in pre- sat nav days whenever you were going to a house you had been at many times before you brought a map and never ever relied on being able to see the house where you expected to see the house. And when you couldn't see the house you certainly wouldn't have gotten confused. Because you can 'read a map'. I am saying If you were looking for a specific number of houses in a particular arrangement - as people in rural area frequently do - in 1996 Alfie Lyon's house was not easy peasy to see/find which threw people out. I am saying that from personal experience. And you can mark that on any map in biro.
chooseusername wrote: » Oddly enough if you type in Sophie Toscan du Plantier house in google maps it takes you there and even names Shirley and Alfie's house ,and The Prarie Cottage. Shame you didn't have Google maps back then Bannasidhe like Monkey butter has now.
monkeybutter wrote: » how dare you, I use my esso road atlas for all my mapping needs
JimmyVik wrote: » Even without roadsigns you follow the roads. On the map there are two roads to the right coming up. Take the second one. And the first left after that. The point is that someone who had a map can get somewhere. Its kinda the point of a map. People are saying that because the killer got there he must have been local because he would not have found it otherwise. We thats just not true. If he bought a map he could have.
Bannasidhe wrote: » And all I'm saying is a man who had been at Alfie's house many many times was unable to find it in the Summer of 1996. Perhaps he couldn't read a map. Or perhaps he 'knew' where he was going but when he got there was confused because he couldn't see Alfie's house where he expected to see Alfie's house so thought he was in the wrong place. And he wasn't the only person that happened to. Alfie himself admitted by accidently camouflaging his house he had caused massive confusion. It was an unintended consequence. The point being it wasn't easy peasy for locals who knew the place to find. Locals don't tend to use maps when they are going to a familiar place. They go by landmarks. Ironically, it would have been easier to find in the dark as one wouldn't have been looking for familiar 'landmarks'.
Idioteque wrote: » Interesting theory. The only bit that deosn't stack up for me is the nightclothing. It's dead of winter and much quicker to throw a coat on than lace up some boots to go outside. It wasn't a 'dressing gown' she was wearing, aparantly it was pyjama bottoms (long-johns) and a short top/nightgown.
JimmyVik wrote: » Im form a very remote rural area myself. We always somehow found our way around. And also strangely whenever we went to other parts of the country and even other countries we found our way around - without a phone too. Im laboring the point i know But people have always found their way around. And just because some people feel that they cant, then they assume that the murderer had to be local. Its an invalid assumption.
monkeybutter wrote: » could you not have taken charge and not followed a lost person around for an hour
dark crystal wrote: » She was wearing a dressing gown. It was found under some brambles next to her body. Also interesting were the parallel marks found on her face and neck, consistent with a Doc Marten boot. I wonder how distinctive the soles of that particular brand of boot are? I would have thought that type of boot would have been worn by someone in a younger demographic, rather than someone middle-aged or older.
MoonUnit75 wrote: » I can't get my head around this, his house might have been 'sky blue' but surely the slate roof was dark grey. Seems a weird suggestion that it would blend in on a hillside if it's light blue with a dark grey roof. The photos from the time show a house with sky blue paint and yellow windows, is that it?
Mackinac wrote: » I’ve read different accounts that refer to them as being Dr Marten boots or Dr Marten “style” boots so not sure which is correct. I guess they would have been worn by younger people but also older people who lived a more bohemian lifestyle.
Bannasidhe wrote: » .....I do think he was planning on spinning being the accused into an eventual book once he was cleared. A tell all 'I fought the Law and I won' exposé. He was a bit of a grifter, living casual job to casual job. This probably looked like his big break. Chat shows, interviews, book sales beckoned.
retro:electro wrote: » .....I also feel deep pity for him. Like how could you not? Seeing him sitting there in the chicken coop drunk as shlt relentlessly recanting and being tortured by the last 25 years is a sorry sight.....
BnB wrote: » I don't feel any pity for him at all. I will be up front and admit that my lack of pity is more than likely somewhat colored by the fact that I do think he's guilty. But, even trying to look at it objectively, if it came out in the morning that we knew for a fact that he was innocent, I think I would still find it very difficult to have any pity for him. Mainly because, he is such a genuinely dislikable character. Yes, watching him drunkenly mumbling and rambling in the chicken coop was pathetic - But the vast majority of that was completely of his own making. He was a bullying, wife(partner) beating, self centered egomaniac and alcoholic long before that poor girl was ever murdered.
dark crystal wrote: » It's not just the remoteness of the location that leads me to believe it was a local, it's the timing of the attack. Who else would be in that remote an area in the middle of the night? Some backpacker lost in the wilds of Cork?
JimmyVik wrote: » Obviously the killer was in the area.And there are plenty of criminals even today, that travel around remote areas where they are not from to rob houses, even with people in them. A fair few have been caught in the act and some have even badly beaten the occupants of the houses they have broken into.
Bannasidhe wrote: » Sweetest Divine. Look - take on board that people familiar with Alfie's house had difficultly finding it in 1996 after his paint job from someone who was there in 1996 or don't . I honestly don't give a monkeys at this point. I am telling my experience of being there. Ya'll can rattle yer maps and talk about how many times ye drove that road away.
MAXFANTANA wrote: » I think it was during the trial section they mentioned she was hit 45 times with the block. Was this true or a mis translation for 4-5? Lifting a concrete up and down 45 times takes a lot of effort and you’d surely be sweating profusely regardless of the ambient temperature. Not trying to be graphic but would there be any head left after 45 blows with a block.
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