Dohnjoe wrote: » Do you think there's a possibility that masks will be made permanent as a "social/population control measure" as per the original post?
[Deleted User] wrote: » I don't think it's realistic to believe they'll go in Ireland for a number of reasons. The first is that I don't think there will ever be a low enough number of cases or hospitalisations for NPHET not to be concerned. It's not realistic to believe there is. There is a tiny number of people in hospital in a country of 4.5 million people and they're still concerned. Even post-vaccination there will continue to be cases and hospitalisations, so why wouldn't they continue to be concerned about that? The second is that Independent SAGE dominate the airwaves and, although people argue that they have zero influence on things, the media has huge influence, and so their being on the airwaves all the time means that this will never end, in my opinion. They will always be calling for restrictions and/or causing people to be fearful. The third is that I believe most people don't mind wearing them. There appears to be no appetite among the public for them to go. I go a step further and say they're popular, but I may be misinterpreting not being bothered about wearing them to mean that they're popular. In the UK I don't think SAGE would ever be satisfied with a certain number of cases and or hospitalisations. But there's more of a chance that they'll go in the UK than in Ireland, I think, because there's opposition over there. But if they don't go on the 19th then I don't see how they ever go. I don't know what to make of the 'social/population control measure' argument, but I don't think it matters because either way they wouldn't be going anywhere. But I accept that I may be wrong, and I hope I am.
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » I live in the UK, Rarely hear anything from them, why do you continue to make things up?
[Deleted User] wrote: » Sorry, ISAG is the name of the group in Ireland. I confused the two. ISAG are extremely prominent in Ireland.
In the UK I don't think SAGE would ever be satisfied with a certain number of cases and or hospitalisations.
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » Sure :rolleyes: That's why you followed up with
Gortanna wrote: » I don't think it's realistic to believe they'll go in Ireland for a number of reasons. The first is that I don't think there will ever be a low enough number of cases or hospitalisations for NPHET not to be concerned. It's not realistic to believe there is. There is a tiny number of people in hospital in a country of 4.5 million people and they're still concerned. Even post-vaccination there will continue to be cases and hospitalisations, so why wouldn't they continue to be concerned about that? The second is that Independent SAGE dominate the airwaves and, although people argue that they have zero influence on things, the media has huge influence, and so their being on the airwaves all the time means that this will never end, in my opinion. They will always be calling for restrictions and/or causing people to be fearful. The third is that I believe most people don't mind wearing them. There appears to be no appetite among the public for them to go. I go a step further and say they're popular, but I may be misinterpreting not being bothered about wearing them to mean that they're popular. In the UK I don't think SAGE would ever be satisfied with a certain number of cases and or hospitalisations. But there's more of a chance that they'll go in the UK than in Ireland, I think, because there's opposition over there. But if they don't go on the 19th then I don't see how they ever go. I don't know what to make of the 'social/population control measure' argument, but I don't think it matters because either way they wouldn't be going anywhere. But I accept that I may be wrong, and I hope I am.
Dohnjoe wrote: » Thanks, but it doesn't answer the question. Do you think masks (and other measures) will be made permanent in Ireland in order to "control" the population? We wear masks because there's a pandemic. Some people believe it's for another reason, do you think it's for another reason?
[Deleted User] wrote: » I'd need to know what exactly brianhere means when he says 'social/population control'.
Dohnjoe wrote: » Thanks, but it doesn't answer the question. Do you think masks (and other measures) will be made permanent in Ireland in order to "control" the population? We wear masks because there's a pandemic. Some people believe it's for another reason, do you think there's another reason, if so, what is it?
PintOfView wrote: » But you're leaving out a lot of context here, and misrepresenting reality. You make it sound like people like wearing masks, and 65% want to wear them indefinitely. The reality is that it's likely 0% like wearing them, and 0% want to wear them indefinitely, However 65% of respondents think that once most people are vaccinated some precautions should remain, and one of those precautions is masks in shops. This is clearly in the context of covid still circulating, and until we see what happens once most are vaccinated. I personally agree with this, ie. proceeding with caution. I would guess you think there is something wrong with 65% thinking that because you don't think the virus is a threat at all? In that regard, I saw first hand one small business that had to close in May, due everyone catching covid, with one person ending up in hospital. That's not normal for May, and even in January that would not be expected. But you seem to think that it would be ok for the virus to be let loose without restraint! What damage has been done? And who do you think is responsible for the damage? When you say you're concerned about a cyber attack, are you concerned about a future one, or the one we've just had on the HSE, or the cyber attacks that have been happening regularly around the world for many years? What does Dave Cullen say in his video about the recent cyber attacks?
Amadan Dubh wrote: » They're worn to show you're compliant with the guidance and support the general restrictions, but there's certainly a lack of concern about the actual virus from most people wearing masks. I mean, once it's below the nose, it's pointless. Once it's a rag of cloth from spar or it's a transparent face visor, it's pointless from a medical perspective. As such, wearing a mask is more of a symbol of obedience rather than a symbol of concern about the virus, I would argue, in the majority of people. Obviously not all people but definitely a majority. Since this is a conspiracy thread, here is my yarn; pandemic restrictions have been a blessing for supporters of QE as it has enabled the QE thrusters to be pushed into overdrive and unlimited cash can be pumped into the system to keep the financial fraud going. Debt in the system is a multiple of what it was in the lead up to 2008. In fact, it appears the debt build up was never dealt with, the bubble was just reinflated with more debt. We are now in a situation where markets are hooked on central bank credit, like junkies addicted to their drugs. And like with junkies, you will find it very hard to wean them off their drug. Asset prices were starting to stabilise or even decline in 2018/2019 but then along came covid restrictions and the QE money printers whirred non-stop under the guise of supporting the economy. However, it has not helped the economy as it has just resulted in asset prices increasing; supporting the economy would be using this free money and giving it to directly to individuals and businesses in their bank accounts. Now, the QE overdrive from covid is causing an even bigger problem whereby this insane level of money printing looks like it needs to be sustained but if covid was to be declared over, as it should be in places where the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, what would the justification be for continuing to magic money out of thin air? As I said, it is just very convenient that covid restrictions justify further QE at a time when the music was potentially about to stop and the lack of chairs would become known. Ideally the last 20 years of "growth" need to be accepted as an economic failure and we go back to the drawing board to a more sustainable economic system.
Amadan Dubh wrote: » They're worn to show you're compliant with the guidance and support the general restrictions, but there's certainly a lack of concern about the actual virus from most people wearing masks. I mean, once it's below the nose, it's pointless. Once it's a rag of cloth from spar or it's a transparent face visor, it's pointless from a medical perspective. As such, wearing a mask is more of a symbol of obedience rather than a symbol of concern about the virus, I would argue, in the majority of people. Obviously not all people but definitely a majority.
Since this is a conspiracy thread, here is my yarn; pandemic restrictions have been a blessing for supporters of QE as it has enabled the QE thrusters to be pushed into overdrive and unlimited cash can be pumped into the system to keep the financial fraud going. Debt in the system is a multiple of what it was in the lead up to 2008. In fact, it appears the debt build up was never dealt with, the bubble was just reinflated with more debt. We are now in a situation where markets are hooked on central bank credit, like junkies addicted to their drugs. And like with junkies, you will find it very hard to wean them off their drug. Asset prices were starting to stabilise or even decline in 2018/2019 but then along came covid restrictions and the QE money printers whirred non-stop under the guise of supporting the economy. However, it has not helped the economy as it has just resulted in asset prices increasing; supporting the economy would be using this free money and giving it to directly to individuals and businesses in their bank accounts. Now, the QE overdrive from covid is causing an even bigger problem whereby this insane level of money printing looks like it needs to be sustained but if covid was to be declared over, as it should be in places where the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, what would the justification be for continuing to magic money out of thin air? As I said, it is just very convenient that covid restrictions justify further QE at a time when the music was potentially about to stop and the lack of chairs would become known. Ideally the last 20 years of "growth" need to be accepted as an economic failure and we go back to the drawing board to a more sustainable economic system.
King Mob wrote: » Lol and now here comes the random rants about WEF and the conspiracy to remove ownership again. All a distraction to deflect from the fact that no conspiracy theorist can answer the simple question of why masks would be permanent. They can't answer this because it's obvious there's no reason why they would.
Amadan Dubh wrote: » Of course they won't be permanent as the facial recognition they will roll out to monirot us needs our faces to be uncovered!
Dohnjoe wrote: » Okay, but this comes across as a strange roundabout answer According to you, do properly worn masks reduce the spread of the virus, yes or no? Which financial fraud specifically? And who exactly is behind this conspiracy of yours?
Dohnjoe wrote: » Who are "they" exactly? We already have CCTV, is there a different purpose for facial recognition?
Gortanna wrote: » Indeed. So why then are they still mandatory in Ireland and the UK when hardly anyone is in hospital and deaths are on the floor?
Gortanna wrote: » And I gave several reasons why they would be, and I believe will be, permanent in Ireland. You continue to say no one has given a reason, but I gave three reasons.
Gortanna wrote: » (1) Pressure from ISAG which the media will push, (2) Not realistic to believe NPHET won't be concerned about case numbers and hospitalisations post-vaccination and (3) No appetite among the public for them to go.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Indeed. So why then are they still mandatory in Ireland and the UK when hardly anyone is in hospital and deaths are on the floor? Scotland won't scrap them when it lifts other restrictions in August and goes beyond level 0: https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/health/covid-scotland-face-masks-travel-restrictions-and-working-from-home-to-continue-beyond-level-0-3282861%3famp If they won't go in Scotland beyond level 0 then they can't ever go. And I gave several reasons why they would be, and I believe will be, permanent in Ireland. You continue to say no one has given a reason, but I gave three reasons. (1) Pressure from ISAG which the media will push, (2) Not realistic to believe NPHET won't be concerned about case numbers and hospitalisations post-vaccination and (3) No appetite among the public for them to go.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Indeed. So why then are they still mandatory in Ireland and the UK when hardly anyone is in hospital and deaths are on the floor? Scotland won't scrap them when it lifts other restrictions in August and goes beyond level 0: https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/health/covid-scotland-face-masks-travel-restrictions-and-working-from-home-to-continue-beyond-level-0-3282861%3famp If they won't go in Scotland beyond level 0 then they can't ever go.And I gave several reasons why they would be, and I believe will be, permanent in Ireland. You continue to say no one has given a reason, but I gave three reasons. (1) Pressure from ISAG which the media will push, (2) Not realistic to believe NPHET won't be concerned about case numbers and hospitalisations post-vaccination and (3) No appetite among the public for them to go.
[Deleted User] wrote: » They're still there because the vaccination levels aren't high enough in either the UK or Ireland. In particular, a lot of people have only gotten dose one. So we're still highly vulnerable to the likes of the delta variant. Also it's pretty likely they'll remain for a while just to avoid any unpredictable scenarios. But would not view them as remotely permanent. I imagine early next year it'll become optional. Also masks basically work against half the conspiracy theories. Eg facial recognition becomes crap and such. So all the evil plots don't even work with the bizarre choice of this as an evil agenda.
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » No you didn't, you have given vague suggestions as to who might call for masks to be permanent but you haven't given a single credible reason as to why masks might become permanent.
[Deleted User] wrote: » But even post-vaccination there will be cases and hospitalisations. Why would NPHET, who have been concerned about any slight rise in case numbers for over a year, no longer be concerned about case numbers and/or hospitalisations post-vaccination? Do you believe, based solely on the number of people in hospital in a country of 4.5 million, that there's a justification for restrictions? I've asked that question a number of times, but have yet to receive an answer. Solely based on the number of people in hospital relative to the population size.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Absolutely is necessary, there's vaccine resistant strains (dose one AZ specifically) and we don't have sufficient numbers vaccinated. I dunno why you seem to think that it would be one of the first measures to be dropped. They'll be the last one. So what's the evil agenda?
[Deleted User] wrote: » NPHET being concerned about case numbers and hospitalisations isn't a credible reason? They've been concerned about them for over a year.
If they're not scrapped on the 19th of July, at least in England, then how can they ever go?
Gibraltar has vaccinated its entire population and they're still mandatory in shops and on public transport. Or at least that's what Google tells me.
Gortanna wrote: » NPHET being concerned about case numbers and hospitalisations isn't a credible reason? They've been concerned about them for over a year. .
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