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Child Item

Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

Beechwoodspark

I hardly ever start threads on boards but this morning I saw the following story on the RTÉ app

Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0226/1199464-direct-provision/

This new system to accommodate asylum seekers has been announced today

Looks very ambitious and VERY generous

This is in the context of our neighbour GB going its own way regarding immigration and if anything bringing in stricter immigration laws.

It seems we in Ireland - now the main English speaking country in the EU - are going the other direction and becoming even more open and more generous to asylum seekers?

Along with being eligible to obtain employment after 6 months and a number of other entitlements the main thing that stood out to me was the following

“The plan says after their first four months in Ireland, people whose protection claims are still being processed will move to accommodation in the community.”

“It says this will be own-door or own-room accommodation, for which they will pay a means-tested rent.”

“All accommodation will be own-door, self-contained houses or apartments for families to provide privacy, agency and independence.”

Single people will be housed in either own-door or own-room accommodation.”

Wow, very generous indeed.

The NGOs and lobbyists in the “migrant sector” must love all this?!

Minister Roderick o Gorman and this Govt must be their new best buddies.

I have a few questions...

How much will it all cost?

To me it looks extremely expensive?

Where will these “own door” houses be?

Are they built as yet?

The plan says that if Mickey or Johnny arrives in and claims asylum, after a mere 4 months he can get his “own door” accom....

So Will the asylum seekers be jumped to the front of queue when it comes to public housing?

Will similar schemes be provided for low income people living in less than ideal circumstances often in their parents home but who would love “own door” accommodation to call their own?

What about the homeless - “own door” housing for them too?

Big pull factor for ppl to claim asylum here in Ireland rather than far less generous systems in the EU?

Will public money and resources be diverted to fund all this?

Anyone know??

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[Deleted User]

These Protection schemes seem to be a new thing, well at least the scale of them is compared to previous years before 2015. I assume these will be continued every year now and increased every time they are renewed?

The British have also joined this new scheme but they take less than half the number of people we do per head of population. Why do we take double, is it to prove how virtuous we are once again?

Has there been any comment from Irish government ministers on the return of Syrian refugees? Merkel herself said a few years ago that these people were expected to return home once conditions allow.

[Deleted User]

A question somebody might be able to answer.

The annual statistics about numbers accepted in to Ireland, does it include program refugees? Or are they just about first and second instance decisions about people seeking asylum?

punisher5112

As I said before for someone like Ryan to come out with such utter rubbish then to top it off with him been a tree hugger and about us saving the planet....

He would want to read up on that part as if we did increase the population then would this not increase waste, pollution, need for more services, water, food, heat, electric etc etc etc.....

What an utter fool he is.

Economics101

Why is it proposed to replace privately-run DP centres with State-owned ones? If I want guest house of hotel accommodation I can get loads of good private ones. What's wrong with privately-run centres subject to (a) a proper tendering process and (b) proper regulation of quality?

Is this another case of ideological obsession?

timmyntc

Economics101 wrote: »

Why is it proposed to replace privately-run DP centres with State-owned ones? If I want guest house of hotel accommodation I can get loads of good private ones. What's wrong with privately-run centres subject to (a) a proper tendering process and (b) proper regulation of quality?

Is this another case of ideological obsession?

Any time the govt tenders public services out to a private operator they usually take the piss, and try and make as much profit as possible by cutting operating costs.

In this case they would run ****e services in desperate conditions, and the govt would pay them a fixed fee regardless.

In a private market they have to compete not only on price, but on service - you wont go to a hotel if its a sh*thole, but a DP centre only needs to house asylum seekers wherever possible. It doesnt appear that they are held to any kind of standards.

Economics101

timmyntc wrote: »

Any time the govt tenders public services out to a private operator they usually take the piss, and try and make as much profit as possible by cutting operating costs.

In this case they would run ****e services in desperate conditions, and the govt would pay them a fixed fee regardless.

In a private market they have to compete not only on price, but on service - you wont go to a hotel if its a sh*thole, but a DP centre only needs to house asylum seekers wherever possible. It doesnt appear that they are held to any kind of standards.

I did say that there should be appropriate regulation on quality. WHy can't this be done? And we know that State and HSE institutions are perfectly capable of producing dreadful quality. That's why we have HIQA.

Gunmonkey

punisher5112 wrote: »

As I said before for someone like Ryan to come out with such utter rubbish then to top it off with him been a tree hugger and about us saving the planet....

He would want to read up on that part as if we did increase the population then would this not increase waste, pollution, need for more services, water, food, heat, electric etc etc etc.....

What an utter fool he is.

I always enjoyed the irony of the Greens pushing this to encourage more asylum seekers to come here...to our island nation...which I am going to assume 95%+ of dont take a boat to get here.

The same Green party that lambasted its own citizens for taking foreign holidays, saying we all need to fly less and should holiday at home to save the planet.

How are they expecting this mass of immigrants are expected to get here, when they are going to be shutting down the airways?

timmyntc

Economics101 wrote: »

I did say that there should be appropriate regulation on quality. WHy can't this be done? And we know that State and HSE institutions are perfectly capable of producing dreadful quality. That's why we have HIQA.

I wont dispute that - just telling you the reasoning behind this decision.
"End direct provision" came out of a knee jerk reaction to the poorly regulated privately run scheme that was in place.

If there were proper standards & routine checks in place on these private operators, there probably would have been no call to end DP in the first place.

But yes, replacing it with own door accommodation and a whole heap of other stuff is a real irish solution to an irish problem. In 20 years time their will be calls to reform that too, as there will inevitably be some issues due to lack of regulation yet again.

[Deleted User]

Gunmonkey wrote: »

I always enjoyed the irony of the Greens pushing this to encourage more asylum seekers to come here...to our island nation...which I am going to assume 95%+ of dont take a boat to get here.

The same Green party that lambasted its own citizens for taking foreign holidays, saying we all need to fly less and should holiday at home to save the planet.

How are they expecting this mass of immigrants are expected to get here, when they are going to be shutting down the airways?

I believe the Greens in Germany were leading in nationwide opinion polls a few weeks ago, they've since fallen back a bit, but can you imagine the damage they would do if they got control over one of Europe's major countries. It doesn't bare thinking about.

As for Ryan in the Irish Greens, the less said the better, but I assume his policies of mass immigration would be supported by most Green members.

Economics101

Deleted User wrote: »

I believe the Greens in Germany were leading in nationwide opinion polls a few weeks ago, they've since fallen back a bit, but can you imagine the damage they would do if they got control over one of Europe's major countries. It doesn't bare thinking about.

As for Ryan in the Irish Greens, the less said the better, but I assume his policies of mass immigration would be supported by most Green members.

I think that years ago the German Greens had quite a dispute between "Realists" and "Fundamentalists" (the precise German terms are very similar). The Realists won that battle and German Greens are wired up to the real world. Or own lot are barking Fundamentalists, who have learned nothing.

[Deleted User]

Economics101 wrote: »

I think that years ago the German Greens had quite a dispute between "Realists" and "Fundamentalists" (the precise German terms are very similar). The Realists won that battle and German Greens are wired up to the real world. Or own lot are barking Fundamentalists, who have learned nothing.

Thanks. Didn't know that. Will check it out.

Mules

I sent an email thanking Willie O'Dea

Patrick2010

Is Ryan mad??. What possible advantage is it to Ireland to double our population by taking in millions from the third world and supporting them here? Who is going to pay for all this?. O Gorman says he can't put a figure on the cost of providing own door accommodation to asylum seekers because it depends on how many arrive. Obviously numbers will increase greatly once word gets out that after 3 months you get the keys to your own accommodation.
At some stage surely Ireland will have to say to the EU that no matter what programs we signed up to we just can't take any more, we're broke.

chopperbyrne

If this goes ahead it will see a rise in extreme nationalism, and racism.

The National Party at the moment are a joke, but they (or other parties like them) will increase in popularity once thousands of people lose out on homes because unprocessed asylum seekers have been given them.

Pronto63

Mules wrote: »

I sent an email thanking Willie O'Dea

Well done.
We need to be more vocal. It’s no use giving out about birthright citizenship on boards. We all need to write to our TDs and tell them how we feel.
The various NGOs are already mobilising and writing to TDs about this and the forthcoming undocumented migrants scheme.

crooked cockney villain

Geuze wrote: »

So the headline amount of refugees is 4,000 + 2,900 = 6,900

AFAIK, this thread is about housing for AS, who are people who arrive into Ireland, and then claim asylum, and want to acquire status.

The two programmes are about people who seem to have refugees status before they arrive here?

Imagine a county that has a chronic lack of social and affordable rental housing aiming on taking in 6900 people.

Assuming an average of four per household (some will be single men, others will be a family of nine) the Irish state, in the middle of a housing crisis, built, bought, or leased out circa 1700 homes. That's roughly the size of your average 70's/ 80's built West Dublin council estate by my reckoning.

An entire housing estate, while Joe Mug pays 1900 to rent one.

And that's just the programme refugees. It doesn't count the lads who are in DP so long their case is found to be lacking but they get leave to remain anyway.

ThunbergsAreGo

Pronto63 wrote: »

Well done.
We need to be more vocal. It’s no use giving out about birthright citizenship on boards. We all need to write to our TDs and tell them how we feel.
The various NGOs are already mobilising and writing to TDs about this and the forthcoming undocumented migrants scheme.

And their families who want to come here.....

Feadog999

Mules wrote: »

I sent an email thanking Willie O'Dea

So did I. Hopefully his type of questioning takes root amongst his FF colleagues. Fair play to him regardless.

Strumms

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Is Ryan mad??. What possible advantage is it to Ireland to double our population by taking in millions from the third world and supporting them here? Who is going to pay for all this?. O Gorman says he can't put a figure on the cost of providing own door accommodation to asylum seekers because it depends on how many arrive. Obviously numbers will increase greatly once word gets out that after 3 months you get the keys to your own accommodation.
At some stage surely Ireland will have to say to the EU that no matter what programs we signed up to we just can't take any more, we're broke.

No business with sane leadership on the face of and in the history of the planet has ever said.... “ well, we have no idea what it will cost us, but we’ll commit to doing it anyway..” businesses would go to the wall left and right if they indulge in that kind of behavior....

A country..... a country going to the wall, Jesus.... because that’s the likelihood...

Our population is going to significantly increase in a short space of time... the catalyst will be thousands of people arriving needing cash, own door accommodation, then housing, healthcare, travel and a host of other entitlements and supports... we are fúcked....

I can envisage in 10-15 years when these decisions kick in and are tangibly affecting our quality of life....

Ireland's population could grow to 5.6m by 2040, requiring 28,000 new homes per annum over the next 20 years, new research by the ESRI has found.

We are growing by about 500,000 people a decade since 2010.

That population growth is crazy, it’s unsustainable, it’s creating a huge demand on services from housing, health, transport Gardai, social protection....

Those arriving can’t contribute...

I’m glad I started a private pension..private health, gonna be needing that too

But with people being given homes ? It’s going to be a struggle for this country and it’s citizens to pay for it. Going to be impossible..

Jinglejangle69

I fear its gone past the point of no return.

Even in a few years if some politicial party puts a stop to this madness the damage will be done.

Calhoun

Its just change to how things were we have inward migration rather than outward. We do need to get control over the actual legal side of it and the process its in bits but once its clear transparent and fair thats the best we can all hope for.

We cannot lock things down indefinitely and there are many great examples of people coming into the country that are adding such a positive benefit. We just need not be afraid of dealing with the ones that are trouble makers.

These things are cyclical and Ireland more than likely will get back too a stage where we aren't even worth coming to anymore so there is always that.

[Deleted User]

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I fear its gone past the point of no return.

Even in a few years if some politicial party puts a stop to this madness the damage will be done.

Unless we reach a point where mass deportations (incl those who have gained citizenship) becomes socially acceptable. Otherwise, we'll just have to find a way to deal with it. Alas... no other nation has managed to do so in the long-term (a few decades).

Freight bandit

I'd love to know what the gell these people are thinking,can they not envisage the problems down the road? Or has the social contract been well and truly ripped up

enricoh

Freight bandit wrote: »

I'd love to know what the gell these people are thinking,can they not envisage the problems down the road? Or has the social contract been well and truly ripped up

It's an industry now, none of those high up in the quangos, none of the politicians making the decisions etc will be outside balbriggan cop shop having a silent vigil hoping the cops will police the area n take on gangs of youths running amok.

[Deleted User]

Freight bandit wrote: »

I'd love to know what the gell these people are thinking,can they not envisage the problems down the road? Or has the social contract been well and truly ripped up

I don't think they care, beyond the nice rosy feeling that they'll have something to talk about later. Which they will.

After all, consider the rhetoric that is currently at play. They/We're helping victims, and those victims are not responsible for anything that happens, and in fact, anything negative that does happen is due to White people not adjusting to the new reality. So, later, when everything does go to ****, these activists/advocates won't be responsible because other people were unreasonable and unhelpful in creating the Utopian society they dreamed about.

It's a win win situation for them. It's like the way that people who commit crimes, never think that they, themselves, will be caught. They know there's dangers and risks, but their situation is unique, and they're too smart/lucky/whatever for anything bad to happen. Until it does.. and then, they've learned to be better, so it won't happen again, until it does.

You see it on many of the threads on boards, by the people who advocate multiculturalism, or mass immigration. They'll deflect away from anything uncomfortable, rarely committing themselves to considering the negatives.. except where the negatives are caused by something outside their preferred group. And so, they retain their virtuous stance, while ignoring any possible downsides.

golondrinas

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless we reach a point where mass deportations (incl those who have gained citizenship) becomes socially acceptable. Otherwise, we'll just have to find a way to deal with it. Alas... no other nation has managed to do so in the long-term (a few decades).

There is one African family in Dublin a member of which caused criminal havoc recently. The response of the family- organised protests and a baying mob to shout racist slurs at shoppers in the supermarket he committed his crime in. Brother drives around uninsured. Family attacked gardai who went to arrest him. This family will cost the taxpayer a huge amount by the time investigations play out. Now there’s a family ripe for deportation. The response from the authorities. Move them to a better house.

Tea drinker

Gunmonkey wrote: »

I always enjoyed the irony of the Greens pushing this to encourage more asylum seekers to come here...to our island nation...which I am going to assume 95%+ of dont take a boat to get here.

The same Green party that lambasted its own citizens for taking foreign holidays, saying we all need to fly less and should holiday at home to save the planet.

How are they expecting this mass of immigrants are expected to get here, when they are going to be shutting down the airways?

`
Don't worry about the air transport pollution, we will have massibve pollution and biodiveristy loss to cater for the 1 million (half foreign half domestic) extra people in 10 years the greens plan for and support.
The emissions from manufacturing and using so much needed concrete will dwarf airline pollution.

Kermit.de.frog

Feadog999 wrote: »

no more than four months in six custom-built, state-owned reception centres before moving into housing secured through Approved Housing Bodies (AHBs).

including utilities, wifi, furnishings, maintenance,

What kind of a stupid fcuking country is this? This is beyond Sweden madness.

Can you imagine the advertisment this will send around the continent and further afield?

Have they taken leave of their brains or what?

We are in the middle of an acute housing crisis as well.

This will blow up in their faces. I don't see people accepting this. It's not right morally or practically.

Geuze

Here is some more data on the planned end of DP:

It's a presentation from the central Govt to local cllrs:

http://ailg.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/AILG-Housing-Agency-Presentation-25062022-.pdf

See slide 36 onwards.

Geuze

That presentation has info on the IRRP programme refugees:

‘Programme Refugees’: accepted for resettlement on agreed & planned basis,
usually in response to a humanitarian request

• Initially accommodated in Emergency Reception & Orientation Centres (EROCs)
• Average length of stay 6 months
• Applications assessed, supports available
• Resettled in the community,
• Via host families, supported housing provided by AHBs or other NGOs
• Do not enter Direct Provision

2015-19 = 4,000, of which 3,354 are here
2020-23 = 2,900

Slide 38 is the AS:

‘Unplanned’ applications
• Annual variance
• Low of 946 in 2013
• High of 4,767 in 2019
• Average over 2017-19 = 3,506 per annum

Number of new applications exceeds number of applications processed
• July 2020: 8,812 applicants awaiting decision
• 2017-2019: 81.5% of applicants accommodated in Direct Provision
• July 2020: 7,151 people living in Direct Provision