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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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NyOmnishambles

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Now that CCS is mentioned, the triple headers will stop a CCS charge if a CHAdeMO session is started. AFAIK this hasn't been fixed so that's an extra dimension to point of failure for CCS users.

This definitely hasn't been fixed
I was charging in Longford recently and had left the charging area to bring my dog for a comfort break

Came back, would have only been gone 10 mins, and a leaf had plugged in and knocked me off

Luckily I only needed a quick top up to get me to my destination and the guy had a little new baby with him so I left him in peace

It was a 202 Leaf so it is likely he hasn't used the public network much and is totally unaware of the issue, I would have been if I didn't read about it here, I have only just recently used public chargers for the first time recently myself

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

Don't disagree with you here roll out of the bigger hubs is definitely required, but most peoples frustration with the network seems to be hypothetical rather than the cause of actual problems.

I won't encounter charging problems, nor will you. We're a tiny minority though - most new BEV owners won't have a clue. I encountered someone today who knew nothing about the car they were driving or how to charge it, funnily enough, at the new hub on the M7.

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Twice this week needed a DC top up due to ad hoc work. Both times there were three EVs at the triple headers. Me unplugging, next car plugging and last car leaving to get a charge elsewhere. One lad rocked up with 11% because his previous charger location wasn't working.

It's not always hypothetical!

Silent Running wrote: »

I'm not one of the drivers on here constantly crying about the charging network, but I resent the IEVOA declaring that it's fine. It simply isn't. And I think this summer will show it up for what it is: not fit for purpose, nationally.

That's exactly how it grabbed me.

I think there is a vehement green agenda emerging & even EVs aren't acceptable now. Our transport minister is patently against travel & I think the agenda is build no roads, pedestrianise cities, hamstring EV adoption etc., at all costs.

Brian Leddin is an Irish Green Party politician who has been a Teachta Dála for the Limerick City constituency since the 2020 general election. He was appointed Chair of the Committee on Climate Action

He's vehemently anti car, in any shape or size, electric included. He obviously won't be recommending investing in charging hubs.

https://www.independent.ie/news/environment/plan-for-one-million-electric-cars-by-2030-neither-achievable-nor-desirable-green-td-40552691.html

THE ALM

Further to the DCI EV card options, here are further details. Will ending up costing more than esb etc.Attachment not found.

ELM327

So it's 3.50 per month, plus 50c per session, plus the exhorbitant ionity fee? What nonsense is that?

liamog

Save's you filling in an expense form?

ELM327

Not posting this in the bargain thread because EV fixer uppers (especially with HV battery issues!) are not bargains
https://www.merlin.ie/details?listingid=8429a774-4fcf-eb11-89ec-f01fafd9cf1d

But if theres a battery lease wouldnt this be covered by renault under the terms of the lease?

silver_sky

ELM327 wrote: »

Not posting this in the bargain thread because EV fixer uppers (especially with HV battery issues!) are not bargains
https://www.merlin.ie/details?listingid=8429a774-4fcf-eb11-89ec-f01fafd9cf1d

But if theres a battery lease wouldnt this be covered by renault under the terms of the lease?

The question I'd have is - does it still have the battery? Renault may have taken it if the lease wasn't going to be renewed and battery not bought out.

ELM327

It looks like it does, as the "fuel gauge" is at around 20% full in one of the photos.

cannco253

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/how-this-new-plug-in-cupra-tries-to-make-a-difference-40555995.html

"As I’ve repeatedly said, the pros and cons of having a plug-in reduce to one core element when all is said and done: will you use it to get you 50kms of distance under electric power only? With the Formentor the answer, from me this time around, was no. I didn’t recharge it. Simply put, it was too much bother walking half a kilometre back while it was being boosted for a couple of hours – assuming one of the two outlets nearest me was available (they are always quite busy).

But just to show I’m not a complete PHEV abstainer I did use the plug-in facility with the Cupra Leon (as reported briefly last week) to great effect, managing 50kms+ of electric-only driving on one memorable drive. Not plugging-in the Leon would have been a real sin as the facility came with our Galway lodgings for the evening. And that is where having a home charger is essential for anyone thinking of buying a PHEV. Without one, it becomes too easy to do it ‘tomorrow’."

I wonder how many PHEV owners have home chargers? The few I know don't and have no intention of getting one installed.

liamog

cannco253 wrote: »

I wonder how many PHEV owners have home chargers? The few I know don't and have no intention of getting one installed.

I think you'd have to be nuts to spend the extra on buying a PHEV and then not have a mechanism to charge at home

silver_sky

I'm not sure how they'd do it, but I don't think you should be allowed own a PHEV without home charging.

MJohnston

silver_sky wrote: »

I'm not sure how they'd do it, but I don't think you should be allowed own a PHEV without home charging.

No point in trying to figure all that out when “not allowed to buy a new PHEV” is probably only a few years away

unkel

cannco253 wrote: »

I wonder how many PHEV owners have home chargers? The few I know don't and have no intention of getting one installed.

Sure why would you have a home charge point installed for free, courtesy of the tax payer? Something that you will need for sure for your next car which is likely to be fully electric? Why would you want to save €4 in fuel every day when you charge it up? Why would you want to go easier on the environment? Surely better wait to install one until you really need one, the subsidy is gone and you will have to pay for it yourself?

JohnC.

silver_sky wrote: »

I'm not sure how they'd do it, but I don't think you should be allowed own a PHEV without home charging.

I don't think it's feasible. Not everyone can have a charge point at home, no matter what kind of car they get.

AndyBoBandy

silver_sky wrote: »

I'm not sure how they'd do it, but I don't think you should be allowed own a PHEV without home charging.

Just dis-incentive the public charging of PHEV's...

Bring in a minimum spend/minimum kWh usage at AC chargers of say 10-15kWh...

So when you hook up to an eCars AC charger, you are immediately debited €2.68 - €4.02 from your account for 10 or 15kWh of electricity.... and when the counter rolls over 10-15kWh, normal per kWh billing resumes...

kanuseeme

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Just dis-incentive the public charging of PHEV's...

Bring in a minimum spend/minimum kWh usage at AC chargers of say 10-15kWh...

So when you hook up to an eCars AC charger, you are immediately debited €2.68 - €4.02 from your account for 10 or 15kWh of electricity.... and when the counter rolls over 10-15kWh, normal per kWh billing resumes...

It would also stop people plugging in and dailing down to avail of the handy parking space and people who buy a crapped out EV as a 2nd car and who could easily go from charge point to charge point during the day and have somewhat useful car.

I fail to see what you are trying to achieve, a lot of the newer phevs have 18+ kWh batteries.

I would prefer if you live with your decision to be tied to a charging network than trying to remove others from using it.

kanuseeme

unkel wrote: »

Sure why would you have a home charge point installed for free, courtesy of the tax payer? Something that you will need for sure for your next car which is likely to be fully electric? Why would you want to save €4 in fuel every day when you charge it up? Why would you want to go easier on the environment? Surely better wait to install one until you really need one, the subsidy is gone and you will have to pay for it yourself?

I don't have a proper home charge point, I still start my day with a full battery.

It's not free it's a 600 euro grant, that seems to end up in the electrician's pocket.

My home charge point cost me 50 euro for an outdoor extension reel.

Dubba

I'm not eligible for the €600 grant because I live in a terrace house with a footpath in front of my car space.

I was considering getting an exterior 3 pin wall socket installed and purchasing a commando adapter / cable. I don't fancy spending ~1k on a charge point without the grant

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/masterplug-10a-2-3kw-mode-2-type-1-socket-electric-vehicle-charging-cable-10m/463GV?gclid=CjwKCAjw8cCGBhB6EiwAgORey54XyvzezW13Shgddh3Yq5ssQ8Tk5rc0Z-Q2xO-uiKwe7ttWXh4RSxoC8_4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

kanuseeme

https://www.donedeal.ie/coaches-for-sale/higer-fully-electric-range-comes-to-harris/27738858

The range from the AZURE is industry-leading with 370km on a single charge however with driver training and regeneration this can go to over 400km.

The charging time from 20% is about 2.5 hours and the great news is that the DC charger comes with the vehicle when you buy it from Harris Bus & Coach.
The charging type is CCS2 so it will interact with any DC CCS2 fast charger.
AZURE can also be partly charged so you don't need to leave it charging for hours during the day, it's on the road earning its keep.

unkel

kanuseeme wrote: »

It's not free it's a 600 euro grant, that seems to end up in the electrician's pocket.

You can easily get a second hand charge point and have it installed for €600 all in. So for free. Might take some work looking at ads and you might have to make more than just one phone call though. Not for lazy folks

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

I think you'd have to be nuts to spend the extra on buying a PHEV and then not have a mechanism to charge at home

Not really an extra in many cases, there were a bunch of PHEVs sold in the UK as company cars because they had a BIK exemption

When the UK government figured out those cars were never being plugged in they pulled the exemption and all those cars got sold on

There were a couple of years there that PHEVs were going quite cheap and when combined with the VRT rebate and cheap road tax they were around the same price as a diesel car

liamog

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Just dis-incentive the public charging of PHEV's...

Bring in a minimum spend/minimum kWh usage at AC chargers of say 10-15kWh...

I'd much rather see PHEVs charged on the public AC network than driving round cities on dino juice.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

I'd much rather see PHEVs charged on the public AC network than driving round cities on dino juice.

Say I bought one of the phevs I like. The X5 45e. A 24kWh battery (~20kWh net) with a 3kW onboard charger.

Is that a good use of a 22kW ac charger? No - and the use of the scant resource should be targeted by pricing.

I agree with Andy, free for all but a "minimum quantity" charge applied whether you use it or not.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

Is that a good use of a 22kW ac charger? No - and the use of the scant resource should be targeted by pricing.

Should we should also ban early Nissan Leaf's from those chargers, and maybe the 6.6kW charging cars also? I get's it's another case of my use case is better than yours so get out of my way.

ELM327

No, thats what I'm saying, dont "ban" anyone.
Price the resource accordingly.

The unit can deliver 22kW so lets assume the "minimum vend" is a 30 minute stay getting 11kWh. If you use less than 11kWh then you get billed for 11kWh. If you use more, then you pay for more. Similar to the 2 litre/5 litre minimum vend at fossil fuel stations

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

The unit can deliver 22kW so lets assume the "minimum vend" is a 30 minute stay getting 11kWh. If you use less than 11kWh then you get billed for 11kWh. If you use more, then you pay for more. Similar to the 2 litre/5 litre minimum vend at fossil fuel stations

A fair analogy, so if they put a minimum usage fee of around 5% of the capacity (1.1kW) similar to how an average fuel tank is around 45/60 litres and the fuel pump gives minimum vend of 2/5 litres

ELM327

5/60 litres is 1/12th or 8%.
8% * 22kW = 2kWh.

That's hardly enough to account for the disparity between peak power and what the car is using the resource for. It needs to be at least 11kWh as I outlined above, as it accounts for half an hour of peak usage.

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

5/60 litres is 1/12th or 8%.
8% * 22kW = 2kWh.

That's hardly enough to account for the disparity between peak power and what the car is using the resource for. It needs to be at least 11kWh as I outlined above, as it accounts for half an hour of peak usage.

€3.50 minimum charge, coveres about 15kWh

It just has to be more expensive than parking. As much as I like free parking at chargers, until we get proper AC charging parks then it's just open to abuse

the_amazing_raisin

Looks like FCEVs are finally on the way out

https://www.electrive.com/2021/06/21/honda-to-conclude-production-of-clarity-fcev/

unkel

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Looks like FCEVs are finally on the way out

https://www.electrive.com/2021/06/21/honda-to-conclude-production-of-clarity-fcev/

Toyota is the last man standing firm. If they stand a little bit longer they'll fall and they won't be able to get up again