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Booing the knee Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP

MrMusician18

I'm not really sure if this belongs more in the Soccer forum or elsewhere but as this has been happening recently as fans have returned to stadiums I'll place it here. It happened at the England game last week and at the Ireland game tonight. Listening to commentary it's generally describing this as outright racism from soccer supporters, but is it that simple? Others have been kinder to them describing it as push back against BLM and the like

Football has had long problems with racism but did genuinely seem to be getting on top of it up until maybe two three years ago. Where do they go from here do you think? Football will have to castigate its own supporters or drop the knee protest. I suspect that it's the latter that will happen.

Necro wrote: »

Multiple off topic posts deleted. I'll give one final warning and then I'll start handing out cards and bans like confetti - stop attacking other posters. If you cannot argue a point based on the content of someone's posts then don't bother making it.

Don't drag the thread off topic and stop firing around the racism accusation - if you have a problem with someone else's posting report it and leave it to the mods

Threadbanned Posters:
Tacitus Kilgore
Yakov P. Golyadkin
John Doe1
MrStuffins
MarkEadie
Faugheen

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Comments

Tell me how

Hhhhh wrote: »

Haha try reading the thread. Give me evidence. A post that backs up what you believe. You've a tendency to build strawmans around those you are discussing things with. So, evidence?

Hhhhh wrote: »

Where's your evidence that I am 'part of the group of some'? Try backing up what you say with evidence before you start talking of others reading comprehension.

Shaking my head at this nonsense.

Hhhhh wrote: »

Why the **** should the Hungarian team be drawing attention to police violence in America? Or any team in Europe?

But let me guess, I'm misinterpreting you.

jakiah

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

The French team did not take the knee before their match with Germany.

In his post-match interview, the French coach Didier Deschamps was asked why the gesture was abandoned.
His response suggested the furore about the gesture had unsettled the squad.
‘No matter what we do, or what the players say, it leads to an interpretation and always a hijacking in one direction or another,’ he said. ‘That's not a good thing’.

According to the French media, the squad was ‘astonished’ by the response to their decision to take the knee and several players expressed their unease at adopting a gesture that could divide the nation.

Fantastic to see common sense coming back into the discussion. Football should be for everyone, this divisive political stuff needs to be driven out again.

[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

Shaking my head at this nonsense.

But let me guess, I'm misinterpreting you.

Try checking the post that that was in response to (hint, it directly referenced America, exactly what you are arguing against)

So, try again.

[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

And you, like Hhhhh haven't understood (or are pretending you haven't) what I said.

And you talk about understanding...

I've understood what you said. I just completely disagree with you.

Tell me how

Hhhhh wrote: »

Try checking the post that that was in response to (hint, it directly referenced America, exactly what you are arguing against)

So, try again.

Nope.
You asked, I responded, you don't like it, I'm not bothered.

Tell me how

jakiah wrote: »

Fantastic to see common sense coming back into the discussion. Football should be for everyone, this divisive political stuff needs to be driven out again.

:D:D:D

You are literally doing exactly what he was complaining about in hijacking his point and making it about something else.

It's either a pretty astounding level of hypocrisy or an incredible lack of self-awareness.

jakiah

Tell me how wrote: »

You are literally doing exactly what he was complaining about in hijacking his point and making it about something else.

Says the lad who changes his mind on whether this is about US politics every five minutes.

[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

Nope.
You asked, I responded, you don't like it, I'm not bothered.

So no evidence then. Is it about America or not?

Tell me how

jakiah wrote: »

Says the lad who changes his mind on whether this is about US politics every five minutes.

Tell you what, if no one mentions America in a post responding to me, I won't bring it up.

Maybe you and Hhhhh could get a group discount on English comprehension classes.

[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

Tell you what, if no one mentions America in a post responding to me, I won't bring it up.

Maybe you and Hhhhh could get a group discount on English comprehension classes.

Are you going to back up anything you say? Where is your evidence that racists will be happy with a new gesture being done that isn't the knee?

Where is your evidence that I'm part of the aforementioned 'some'?

Tell me how

Hhhhh wrote: »

Are you going to back up anything you say? Where is your evidence that racists will be happy with a new gesture being done that isn't the knee?

Where is your evidence that I'm part of the aforementioned 'some'?

Are you stuck in loop?

I never said racists will be happy with a new gesture, I said that they will be happy people are advocating players stop their current protests.

Ive already provided evidence of you being in the 'some' group. You don't agree, that's fine by me.

Won't be responding to these topics again.

[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

Are you stuck in loop?

I never said racists will be happy with a new gesture, I said that they will be happy people are advocating players stop their current protests.

Ive already provided evidence of you being in the 'some' group. You don't agree, that's fine by me.

Won't be responding to these topics again.

OK, we'll agree you are wrong then. I will leave it there too.

[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

Are you stuck in loop?

I never said racists will be happy with a new gesture, I said that they will be happy people are advocating players stop their current protests.

Ive already provided evidence of you being in the 'some' group. You don't agree, that's fine by me.

Won't be responding to these topics again.

The people you are responding to, and the vast majority on here are advocating for a change to the gesture to something which will be more unifying, not for the protest to stop.

A few are indeed wanting it to stop completely, but I would argue they aren't the majority.

Which is why your assertion that racists would be happy was a little odd.

Necro

jakiah wrote: »

Says the lad who changes his mind on whether this is about US politics every five minutes.

Tell me how wrote: »

Tell you what, if no one mentions America in a post responding to me, I won't bring it up.

Maybe you and Hhhhh could get a group discount on English comprehension classes.

If neither of you can post in a civil manner then don't post in this thread

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

The people you are responding to, and the vast majority on here are advocating for a change to the gesture to something which will be more unifying, not for the protest to stop.

A few are indeed wanting it to stop completely, but I would argue they aren't the majority.

Which is why your assertion that racists would be happy was a little odd.

Whatever, I think the continued efforts to ignore a straightforward sentence and the contents of the thread speak for themselves.

I'm out. See you guys on the next one.

Cordell

If only UEFA affiliated teams would protest about real issues in Europe, like LGBT rights in Poland and Hungary, human rights violations in Belarus, Armenian conflict.

Faugheen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't believe the players. And even if I did, it wouldn't make me support that gesture. It's recent connection with blm tied it to racism, not anti racism

You had a near-meltdown when someone said they didn’t believe you a number of days ago about your personal situation.

Why are you ok to do this, despite knowing the personal situation of a number of black footballers and their experiences?

[Deleted User]

Faugheen wrote: »

You had a near-meltdown when someone said they didn’t believe you a number of days ago about your personal situation.

Why are you ok to do this, despite knowing the personal situation of a number of black footballers and their experiences?

I simply said I thought that the assertion by a poster, responding to you, who has since been banned for his words, that I was lying about my daughter was disgusting and that I wouldn't respond to him.

That wasn't a meltdown. That was a parent who was actually being remarkably restrained when being questioned about their daughters ethnicity.

Please don't exaggerate to further lie about my character.

It's very different than not believing that footballers who took an exact same gesture when promoting black lives matter don't think that this can, and would,:cool: be associated with the very same movement when they do it a matter of weeks later.

As I've explained multiple times, I oppose racism and feel that this gesture is exceptionally unhelpful as it alienates people who would otherwise be joining in to make a change.

Please faugheen, don't respond to my posts if you can't do so without trying to misrepresent me or to try and frame me incorrectly.

Faugheen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Please faugheen, don't respond to my posts if you can't do so without trying to misrepresent me or to try and frame me incorrectly.

Oh the f*cking irony of this when you have been misrepresenting why players have been taking the knee and calling them liars despite being corrected numerous times.

I’ll leave it there but you don’t oppose racism in all forms - at least not publicly. There hasn’t been a peep out of you in the Gemma thread about their disgraceful comments towards Leo Varadkar. You only pipe up when you think white people are being misrepresented as racists.

You can cry all you want but you’re whining about being misrepresented and people making disgraceful comments about your personal situation and yet here you are doing the exact same thing.

All over the place.

[Deleted User]

Faugheen wrote: »

Oh the f*cking irony of this when you have been misrepresenting why players have been taking the knee and calling them liars despite being corrected numerous times.

I’ll leave it there but you don’t oppose racism in all forms - at least not publicly. There hasn’t been a peep out of you in the Gemma thread about their disgraceful comments towards Leo Varadkar. You only pipe up when you think white people are being misrepresented as racists.

You can cry all you want but you’re whining about being misrepresented and people making disgraceful comments about your personal situation and yet here you are doing the exact same thing.

All over the place.

I've not been active, or read, the Gemma thread because I'm not in any way interested in what she says.

Should I have been?

Are you really saying the fact that I haven't commented about Gemma o Doherty is complicit agreement?

That's another attempt of misrepresenting me.

I seem to be living rent free in your head faugheen and since you publicly came out and explicitly called me a racist, you've gone above and beyond to label me as such.

I disagree with O'Doherty. Absolutely. And even anything I may agree with her on (if there is anything) I disassociate myself with her and her methods of getting her point across.

My lack of condemnation on a thread that I don't post on, is not implicit agreement.

You've managed to try to conflate the two.

Disgusting is a word I would use. But it wouldn't be harsh enough.

[Deleted User]

Faugheen wrote: »

Oh the f*cking irony of this when you have been misrepresenting why players have been taking the knee and calling them liars despite being corrected numerous times.

I’ll leave it there but you don’t oppose racism in all forms - at least not publicly. There hasn’t been a peep out of you in the Gemma thread about their disgraceful comments towards Leo Varadkar. You only pipe up when you think white people are being misrepresented as racists.

You can cry all you want but you’re whining about being misrepresented and people making disgraceful comments about your personal situation and yet here you are doing the exact same thing.

All over the place.

And there is no crying or whining.

It's just giving my opinion and highlighting that you have been deliberately provocative in order to coerce me into breaching rules

[Deleted User]

Faugheen wrote: »

Oh the f*cking irony of this when you have been misrepresenting why players have been taking the knee and calling them liars despite being corrected numerous times.

I’ll leave it there but you don’t oppose racism in all forms - at least not publicly. There hasn’t been a peep out of you in the Gemma thread about their disgraceful comments towards Leo Varadkar. You only pipe up when you think white people are being misrepresented as racists.

You can cry all you want but you’re whining about being misrepresented and people making disgraceful comments about your personal situation and yet here you are doing the exact same thing.

All over the place.

The Gemma thread:pac::pac: One of the worst responses on this thread.

nolivesmatter

Faugheen wrote: »

Oh the f*cking irony of this when you have been misrepresenting why players have been taking the knee and calling them liars despite being corrected numerous times.

I’ll leave it there but you don’t oppose racism in all forms - at least not publicly. There hasn’t been a peep out of you in the Gemma thread about their disgraceful comments towards Leo Varadkar. You only pipe up when you think white people are being misrepresented as racists.

You can cry all you want but you’re whining about being misrepresented and people making disgraceful comments about your personal situation and yet here you are doing the exact same thing.

All over the place.

People have to post in all the places you might be lurking to prove to you they're not racist? lol You're clutching at straws there.

Ten of Swords

Faugheen wrote: »

I’ll leave it there but you don’t oppose racism in all forms - at least not publicly. There hasn’t been a peep out of you in the Gemma thread about their disgraceful comments towards Leo Varadkar. You only pipe up when you think white people are being misrepresented as racists.

Don't post in this thread again

[Deleted User]

With England Scotland tonight, I genuinely hope that England and their fans do a repeat of the last game, where the players did what they wanted to/told to do as quickly as possible and the fans voice their displeasure but immediately cheer after the kneeling.

I think that's a happy medium. (Like Oda Mae Brown)

ArthurDayne

Deleted User wrote: »

With England Scotland tonight, I genuinely hope that England and their fans do a repeat of the last game, where the players did what they wanted to/told to do as quickly as possible and the fans voice their displeasure but immediately cheer after the kneeling.

I think that's a happy medium. (Like Oda Mae Brown)

Alternatively of course, the fans (if they really just can’t abide by it) could protest it in a way that doesn’t involve actively jeering at players, including black players, while they do a matter-of-seconds anti-racism gesture. Banners, placards, a protest before the game — this is not beyond their wit.

We’ve been through it loads of times on this thread and it’s a simple point that keeps getting lost in all the “it’s Marxism” / “It’s American politics pushed in our faces” / “it doesn’t achieve anything” / “white people cant have opinions anymore” debates. Regardless of all these very interesting discussions, the inescapable fact remains that when you have players on the pitch (most particularly black players) and you are hollering and jeering at them while they do an anti-racism gesture, the nuance of your view gets lost and just leave yourself open to being portrayed negatively.

There is no point in people crying about the media portraying them as louts, thugs, ignorant — or even the big bad ‘R’ word — when they are just giving the media perfect ammo to make the assumption.

Fandymo

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Alternatively of course, the fans (if they really just can’t abide by it) could protest it in a way that doesn’t involve actively jeering at players, including black players, while they do a matter-of-seconds anti-racism gesture. Banners, placards, a protest before the game — this is not beyond their wit.

We’ve been through it loads of times on this thread and it’s a simple point that keeps getting lost in all the “it’s Marxism” / “It’s American politics pushed in our faces” / “it doesn’t achieve anything” / “white people cant have opinions anymore” debates. Regardless of all these very interesting discussions, the inescapable fact remains that when you have players on the pitch (most particularly black players) and you are hollering and jeering at them while they do an anti-racism gesture, the nuance of your view gets lost and just leave yourself open to being portrayed negatively.

There is no point in people crying about the media portraying them as louts, thugs, ignorant — or even the big bad ‘R’ word — when they are just giving the media perfect ammo to make the assumption.

The poor millionaires. How will they ever get over it.

ArthurDayne

Fandymo wrote: »

The poor millionaires. How will they ever get over it.

This is just a really lazy way of looking at it, in my opinion anyway. Do you hold the same views when the so-called Left tries to drown out and disrespect the views of wealthy conservative or so-called Right leaning people?

It’s basically more or less like booing someone and drowning them out when they are debating. If a bunch of so-called Left leaning students were doing something like that while a well-known so-called Right leaning contributor was speaking — you’d have people on here bemoaning the woke cancel culture and how the Left just disrespects anyone who has a different view. The wealth of the person wouldn’t matter a damn then.

Hector Savage

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Alternatively of course, the fans (if they really just can’t abide by it) could protest it in a way that doesn’t involve actively jeering at players, including black players, while they do a matter-of-seconds anti-racism gesture. Banners, placards, a protest before the game — this is not beyond their wit.

We’ve been through it loads of times on this thread and it’s a simple point that keeps getting lost in all the “it’s Marxism” / “It’s American politics pushed in our faces” / “it doesn’t achieve anything” / “white people cant have opinions anymore” debates. Regardless of all these very interesting discussions, the inescapable fact remains that when you have players on the pitch (most particularly black players) and you are hollering and jeering at them while they do an anti-racism gesture, the nuance of your view gets lost and just leave yourself open to being portrayed negatively.

There is no point in people crying about the media portraying them as louts, thugs, ignorant — or even the big bad ‘R’ word — when they are just giving the media perfect ammo to make the assumption.

Fans should just quietly turn their backs during the kneeling ...

[Deleted User]

ArthurDayne wrote: »

There is no point in people crying about the media portraying them as louts, thugs, ignorant — or even the big bad ‘R’ word — when they are just giving the media perfect ammo to make the assumption.

There is EVERY point in "crying" about being called racist if you are not being racist.

**** that noise.

What kind of logic is that?