randd1 wrote: » Immigrants who want to come into this country? Yeah better that they're skilled, but far more important is the attitude to work hard, become a part of the community and guide their kids to do as best they can. Being skilled is secondary for me.
randd1 wrote: » There's another type of immigrant. A neighbour down the road from us came over here about 20 years ago from the UK, an Indian chap and his family. Not particularly educated, and neither was his wife. They had 4 kids of schools going age. Now they got a council house which some of the locals weren't happy about. Typical bloody immigrants getting everything talk around the area. The father worked for years in a supermarket as he couldn't really get anywhere else due to a lack of qualifications. The mother didn't work. The thing is though, while he worked whatever hours he could, without fail, the mother made sure her kids went to school. The kids mixed with locals no bother, and they were pleasant to talk to. Roll on 20 years, the 4 kids are in decent well paying jobs, the wife works as a cleaner and father the works in a different shop, and they're part of the local furniture. The point is sometimes immigrants who might not be skilled do come here with the intention of making the most of what little they have in order to give their kids something better. Immigrants who want to come into this country? Yeah better that they're skilled, but far more important is the attitude to work hard, become a part of the community and guide their kids to do as best they can. Being skilled is secondary for me.
Deleted User wrote: » I'd agree with that... in part. The problem is that the world has changed and moved away from many of the economic considerations of the past. I was talking to the manager of our local Lidl, which is closing down for a week of renovations.. mostly so that they can install a number of automated checking stations. They're aiming to be more cost effective, but as a result, will be laying off 9 people who worked there part-time. And we're going to see a lot more of that in the future, as companies seek to become more efficient with the coming recession. Even without the recession, many businesses were struggling to remain profitable.. and will be seeking to lay off people. The point that remains relevant for Ireland is how much employment will exist for low skilled labor in the immediate future, and even after that period, will the country return to needing such labor. It's unlikely that it will. Another conversation I had recently was with my brother who lived in the UK for two decades, and we were talking about the Indian and Pakistani immigrants who came there over the decades. You'd see the Indians often opening up restaurants, and the Pakistanis opening shops. A generalization, but still quite accurate. They saw a need in the economy, and met the demands that existed.. but that demand is, and has been declining for some time now. Both due to technology, the internet, and also social changes in eating habits, along with the desire for a healthier lifestyle, which does open up new opportunities, but tends to close them for the unskilled. When we look at Ireland, with it's current population, there isn't a huge demand for services provided by the unskilled. With technology, and modern management principles, it's relatively easy for one business to provide for a large area. Add in four or five competing businesses, and the area is saturated. It's highly questionable whether the population of Ireland would increase to provide a broader marketplace for these services, increasing demand.. especially since we're seeing an actual increase in poverty, and the costs of living for the average person, which cuts drastically into consumer spending power. I can certainly understand your perspective. There are many migrants who want to work hard, raise a family, and their children will become educated, filling the gaps within the economy... however, we already have enough low skilled people to fill the employment needs for economic demands. It might be different (although I don't think it is.. except in the short term) if the Irish economy was booming, but even in the last decade, we've been seeing many Irish companies/businesses fail because their consumer base hasn't been enough to cover their costs, and need for profits... as their operating costs have continued to increase. The question we need to ask is whether this is sustainable. Do we encourage immigration of people who, while having the best of intentions to work, are likely to become unemployed within a few years? Or is better to focus on those who are skilled/educated, who stand the best chance of being adaptable in a modern employment market?
MarkEadie wrote: » Pigeonholing people into certain jobs due to their race is not accurate or fair. Just because someone is an indian or pakistani migrant doesn't mean they will be looking to open up a restaurant as their income. Unless you have the facts and figures on the amounts of people in certain jobs and future projections then your post is just very vague rambling and lacking in actual numbers. You should present facts and figures when making assertions.
On the point of jobs as I say there are many different kinds and if people need to make money they will do what they have to do to provide the best life they can for their kids. Pigeonholing them into one line of work isn't accurate or helpful.
You have admitted paying upwards of 3k to attend "speed seduction bootcamps" which are about covertly hypnotising women into having sex.
I think you said you attended three of these bootcamps. I know you've said that was a mistake you made as a youngster and I totally respect that, but im sure you weren't the only lad there paying 3k a pop.
I'm not saying a migrant should set up seminars on attempting to covertly hypnotize women into having sex, but I'm just saying I wouldn't have even considered the possibility of teaching that as an income until I read that you'd attended them so it's not quite accurate to pigeonhole people into just one area of employment when there are many areas and possibilitys. There are also supports in place for unemployed people to upskill, gain employment and then of course they become a contributing tax payer to the system. Failing all that there are even more obscure methods of making an income, as your attendance at those speed seduction seminars shows.
Just because someone is an indian or pakistani migrant doesn't mean they will be looking to open up a restaurant as their income
TomTomTim wrote: » An act that had nothing to do with racism, is being spun as a racial issue that must be solved. This is the exact mindset that's running rampant in America, that will likely lead to their fall, yet we in Ireland ignore the potential damage of such beliefs, and run down the same road. What's clear from all of this framing is that certain groups are automatically believed to be racist, or have some racial issues, which means that they must atone for their sins, and submit themselves to the desires of political radicals for "acceptance".
Mr.Menace wrote: » This was exactly my family, we came here 20 years ago with nothing from Africa, me and my sister both went to college my sister has a law degree and is also a graduate from kings Inn as well and now she has a great paying job from a well known company. I dropped out of college but I still managed to get a good paying job. And my little brother is currently studying chemistry in trinity and is working part time in a warehouse . My mother is working in a local charity shop. But the funny thing is that on here a lot of people don’t have a clue, yes there are obviously people who milk off the system and don’t contribute mainly first generation immigrants. But trust me most of the second generation go to college get a degree and get a high paying job, most of the 2nd generation immigrants i know all have degrees and masters, they all work in finance, tech, and medicine for big companies and are contributing to the economy. But I guess that’s not the narrative that people on this forum want to hear.
Tell me how wrote: » You should tell them in America. If it is running rampant, then police supporters and BLM advocates could probably have their attention focused elsewhere instead of calling for action and insisting there is no need for it. What do you mean by the bit that will likely lead to their fall? Is the conservative (rather that progressive) ideal of restricting access to voting not more of a concern than the supposed encouragement of better engagement between different groups.Your post has little basis in reality either in what is happening, or is likely to happen.
Fandymo wrote: » Are there any stats to show “most” 2nd generation immigrants have degrees and masters? Or is it anecdotal to your circle of friends? Most of my friends have degrees, but I don’t and an awful lot of acquaintances don’t either. Much more that I know don’t have a degree or masters.
Mr.Menace wrote: » I probably should have worded that better, but it would be most of my friend and acquaintances that would have degrees and master, they almost make me feel bad for not not having one, but I know hard work can compensate for that. I tried to find stats but I couldn’t, so my claim is not factual but it’s based on my experience.
Esho wrote: » Most of the posters on this forum don't get out much,
I think. Opinions come from the news, and the more extreme cases. I t's like believing everyone from Neilstown or Crumlin is a criminal.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Then, you'd be guessing wrong, since nobody has been saying anything negative about 2nd gen people from immigrant families in regard to education and employment. Oh, there are issues with some cultural groups for integration, and the sense of belonging but I certainly haven't seen much criticism directed towards them, except where it relates to youth gangs, and crime.
TomTomTim wrote: » If that's the case, you haven't made your case, you've simply jumped to a conclusion without evidence. I thought you were an intellectual, TMH, yet you're not being very scientific. It's also beyond reason, that you, a person whose rarely right about anything, would make a judgment about the future with such confidence. In regards to America's fall, if you don't think that the hyper tribalism that is running through America, will lead to nothing but a break down of their society, then there's little that I can do for you. Every nation that's went through an extreme Us v Them situation, as is happening now in America, has at best resulted in the lowering of quality of life, at worst a complete breakdown of society. Look at the Balkans, look at the Koreans, look up North, look at Libya, look at South Africa, look at the Soviet Union, look at Rwanda. Do you have any examples of such tribalism that didn't result in a great decline?
bubblypop wrote: » Yeah, except for all the posts stating the issues begin with second generation immigrants.......... Whatever suits your narrative at the time....
bubblypop wrote: » You don't need to try to justify anything, certain people will find something else to try to justify their opinions. No doubt you have noticed that already...... Just be proud of your family's accomplishment, feck the begrudgers
DeadHand wrote: » Hey, never feel inferior for lacking a third level qualification. It isn’t necessary for success and happiness. You can go back to it at any time, education is a lifelong thing now. You seem like a fine lad/lass. Best of luck to you! Vanishingly few have a problem with immigration per se and with immigrants generally as individuals. The concerns people have expressed on this thread are about mass, transformative immigration over a short space of time and the ideology of multiculturalism that justifies and defends this recklessness. These processes have already destabilised other European countries to the point where many are reversing course desperately. The first murmurs of that inevitable destabilisation are also appearing here in Ireland. However, we are not just remaining on course but accelerating into it. It’s a question of scale. Immigration managed wisely would see new arrivals land in modest numbers and assimilate. Instead, mass immigration has led to the establishment of parallel societies within Europe which, because of inherent human tribalism and the demands of certain belief systems, will compete with the native society for dominance and influence as well as finite space and resources. Hence, blood and armies on the streets. And who benefits from these processes, accepting the resulting carnage in the comfort of knowing they and those in their immediate circle will not suffer directly? Big business. This titanic, unprecedented flow of humanity swells both European labour pools and markets. Corporatists achieve the twin dreams of ever weaker, cheaper labour and ever multiplying consumers. Hilariously, the European Left Wing has generally been tricked by corporate interests into fanatical support of grotesquely capitalistic processes. Many been led around by their own sense of moral superiority and the belief they are resisting largely imaginary racism. For European Federalists, European societies divided and demoralised by mass immigration and multiculturalism make for easier entities to dominate, just as they are easier for Corporatists to exploit. Islamists piggyback on these processes to plant and cultivate their ideology deep within the European heartlands that Islam could not penetrate it all its blood soaked history up to this point. There are many beneficiaries among the elite, and many more victims among the ordinary. The defenders of mass immigration/multiculturalism will often seek to personalise and/or racialise these issues as it’s one of their few paths to “winning the argument” given the facts on the ground in Europe. It’s an emotive approach designed to silence their perceived opposition. It’s not about race, it’s about culture. It’s not about individuals, it’s about processes.
Deleted User wrote: » I think, for the rest of the world, the problem is that American race theory, and the response to their own problems is being exported to the rest of us, irrespective of the differences in history and social consciousness. Like the claims of systematic racism that do exist in the US, but are claimed (and accepted without real examination) about European nations, but also applied to all racial groups (that are not White). There's a movement to take all the negatives that exists within the US, and transplant them to the rest of the Western world, and using the US as evidence that these negatives are universal (in western natioins... nobody cares about non-white nations).
Wibbs wrote: » True, though racism/prejudice towards the different exists pretty much everywhere you find large enough groups of different cultures, creeds or colours living in a dominant culture that's different to them. America is just a more public and extreme Western example. If you're Black or Brown in Germany, Spain, France, Britain and so on it's pretty much a solid given that you will have experienced it. I'm certainly no denier of racism. The degree can vary of course and some like the US are more systemic. Ireland would be down the list of such things, but in many ways we're still in the early stages of multiculturalism, but we're already seeing the emergence of race baiters in the media, social media and politics on both sides egging it on.
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