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The Irish protocol.

downcow

The protocol will be challenged next week in the british high courts.
I am interested in what you guys believe is an appropriate way forward if it is declared illegal, as I have a haunch it will.
Is it appropriate to continue down an illegal road or will it be time for a rethink?

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briany

schmittel wrote: »

The unspoken implication being: "If you don't like it, the alternative is to let the government in Dublin ensure you toe the line!"

There is another alternative in just working to have a functional NI Assembly instead of wallowing in constant pettiness and passive-aggression. Crazy idea, I know.

hometruths

So now we have the amusing situation whereby Sinn Fein, abstentionists who don't recognise Westminster's parliamentary authority are saying jump, and Westminster is saying how high.

Meanwhile the DUP, who serve in the Westminster parliament, are being told they don't have any authority to complain about it!

Revenge is indeed a dish best served cold.

An Claidheamh

schmittel wrote: »

No doubt now your lords and masters in London have decided to implement the ILA, unionists will take their protests against this decision to Dublin?

https://twitter.com/batsy09/status/1405501224393269249?s=20

That's amazing!

If these orange bots try to bring their delusional nonsense to the rest of Ireland, SF may well sweep up popularity by FFG's appeasement of loyalism

hometruths

Shelga wrote: »

Christ, I think that's the closest I've ever come to agreeing with Jacob Rees-Mogg, this is genuinely terrifying :eek:

He's basically telling the guy that if you're so obsessed with being a unionist, then yeah, tough sh*t, you're stuck with the final say coming from London, so STFU! (I'm paraphrasing :pac:)

Exactly. Slapped him down with "You live in the United Kingdom, a country in which Her Majesty's government calls the shots, suck it up"

The unspoken implication being: "If you don't like it, the alternative is to let the government in Dublin ensure you toe the line!"

FrancieBrady

Shelga wrote: »

Christ, I think that's the closest I've ever come to agreeing with Jacob Rees-Mogg, this is genuinely terrifying :eek:

He's basically telling the guy that if you're so obsessed with being a unionist, then yeah, tough sh*t, you're stuck with the final say coming from London, so STFU! (I'm paraphrasing :pac:)

The absolute cheek of Shannon standing up and giving out about the ignoring of 'democracy'.
Total lack of self awareness.

VinLieger

Shelga wrote: »

Christ, I think that's the closest I've ever come to agreeing with Jacob Rees-Mogg, this is genuinely terrifying :eek:

He's basically telling the guy that if you're so obsessed with being a unionist, then yeah, tough sh*t, you're stuck with the final say coming from London, so STFU! (I'm paraphrasing :pac:)

Just more of the same of the constant "we want to be equal to the rest of the UK, wait no not like that"

Just add the ILA to the ever growing list of marriage equality, abortions, flag etiquette.....

Shelga

schmittel wrote: »

No doubt now your lords and masters in London have decided to implement the ILA, unionists will take their protests against this decision to Dublin?

https://twitter.com/batsy09/status/1405501224393269249?s=20

Christ, I think that's the closest I've ever come to agreeing with Jacob Rees-Mogg, this is genuinely terrifying :eek:

He's basically telling the guy that if you're so obsessed with being a unionist, then yeah, tough sh*t, you're stuck with the final say coming from London, so STFU! (I'm paraphrasing :pac:)

hometruths

downcow wrote: »

Really sad and concerning to watch peace process unravel here.
I fear we are headed for difficult times.
I never thought we would head back to violent conflict but I fear there is now a very real chance.
This time of course will be different. I don’t think the brits will be putting up a hard border to protect ni from republicans but there is a real possibility Roi will be putting up a hard border to keep loyalists out.

I hope I am wrong but I think we are heading for the biggest test for the peace in ni for a generation

No doubt now your lords and masters in London have decided to implement the ILA, unionists will take their protests against this decision to Dublin?

https://twitter.com/batsy09/status/1405501224393269249?s=20

briany

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

All of this concern, riots, threats etc, don't believe it's about the Protocol, which is quite abstract for almost all unionists. The upset is that it's another example of their dominance going. An Irish language act wouldn't do them a bit of harm either, but many of them just don't like it, and it'll be another cause of frustration if they can't block it.
The leadership hasn't really been there to show unionism that it's only equal to nationalism. It's possibly not polite to say so, but it is true.

Yes, the leadership of Unionism is going to have to get used to the fact that Unionism is no longer in the driving seat within NI. Over the last 5 years, the DUP has been consistently prioritising ideology over practical concerns. Getting ever more out of touch with reality has naturally led to them misjudging things and making political missteps as a result, and each misstep is leading to more desperation. Cue a new leader for the party, a no-nonsense man.... who believes the Earth is only several thousand years old. He's entitled to that belief, but it's out of step with NI which is tending more secular.

[Deleted User]

All of this concern, riots, threats etc, don't believe it's about the Protocol, which is quite abstract for almost all unionists. The upset is that it's another example of their dominance going. An Irish language act wouldn't do them a bit of harm either, but many of them just don't like it, and it'll be another cause of frustration if they can't block it.
The leadership hasn't really been there to show unionism that it's only equal to nationalism. It's possibly not polite to say so, but it is true.

FrancieBrady

A brilliant thread on questions around the Protocol from a Queens Council, no less.

Belligerents Unionists should read but they probably won't.

https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1405289715415142404

[Deleted User]

It is a worrying time I think.
Since partition there really hasn't been very long spells without violence, this has probably been the best run. But the problem is there has been no reconciliation. NI is extremely divided, and there has been very little progress on that since 1998. It's a shame the UUP and SDLP faded so much.
The sea border would just be a pretext for violence though, the real problem is that loyalists know their community isn't the force it was and it is frustrating. When Poots talks about bad relations with the South, he's not really talking about NI anymore, because it is half Catholic, he's just talking about his half. Having things like Irish language acts and soldiers being pursued for killing Catholics isn't really part of the loyalist world view, but the Protestant ascendancy is going.
I wouldn't expect southerners or Catholics in the North to have any sympathy really, but it is a tough process of adjustment for them. Another major problem is the failure in Protestant culture to really embrace education. I think that has fed into the gloomy feeling, the horizons seem more limited because of it.

Seth Brundle

downcow wrote: »

Really sad and concerning to watch peace process unravel here.
I fear we are headed for difficult times.
I never thought we would head back to violent conflict but I fear there is now a very real chance.
This time of course will be different. I don’t think the brits will be putting up a hard border to protect ni from republicans but there is a real possibility Roi will be putting up a hard border to keep loyalists out.

I hope I am wrong but I think we are heading for the biggest test for the peace in ni for a generation

...and yet more trolling-like posts, the replies to which you will ignore.
Anyhow, why is the peace process unravelling?
Who is unravelling it and how?
Who is threatening violence and for what reason?
What in your mind are the Brits doing in all of this?

The reality is as I said yesterday, a few bigots along with criminal elements, neither of which represent the majority of people in NI, are seekign to cause trouble for no reason other than they want to. Their ire is deliberately not being directed at those responsible for the Irish Sea checks because they know that were they to do so, London would very quickly cut the cord to NI.

downcow

Really sad and concerning to watch peace process unravel here.
I fear we are headed for difficult times.
I never thought we would head back to violent conflict but I fear there is now a very real chance.
This time of course will be different. I don’t think the brits will be putting up a hard border to protect ni from republicans but there is a real possibility Roi will be putting up a hard border to keep loyalists out.

I hope I am wrong but I think we are heading for the biggest test for the peace in ni for a generation

irelandrover

CelticRambler wrote: »

The PETS travel scheme ("Pet Passport") was designed in Britain (part of the UK) by British vets working in collaboration with the British Government for the benefit of British pet owners. The scheme was run as a pilot project in Britain the 90s and subsequently adopted by the EU when they saw how simple, efficient and pragmatic it was. Other countries outside of Europe also recognised the value of having a single standard for travelling pets and are also signed up to the scheme.

In 2020, the British government decided that British pet-owners leaving Britain should not be part of this international arrangement, and that British pet owners should have to jump through the hoops that existed before the rest of the civilised world followed that British initiative of the 1990s. Note: this applies only to Britain, not the part of the UK on the island of Ireland, and foreign resident-British pets can come into Britain with their EU-issued passport.

Do you see where this trouble stems from? There is no "external jurisdiction" involved in your daughter's inconvenience: it's a nonsensical administrative procedure 100% Made in Britain. Probably has a Union Jack on the packaging to make it easier to bear. :rolleyes:

So what you're saying is its all the EUs fault because they are petty.

CelticRambler

CelticRambler wrote: »

BTW, the pet passport scheme is not all about rabies, so you'd do well to take that bee out of your bonnet until you're better informed on the subject.

downcow wrote: »

But it is rediculous that rabies vaccines are required for a dog to travel from an entirely rabies free part of the U.K. to another entirely rabies free part of the U.K. imposed by a non-rabies free external jurisdiction

The PETS travel scheme ("Pet Passport") was designed in Britain (part of the UK) by British vets working in collaboration with the British Government for the benefit of British pet owners. The scheme was run as a pilot project in Britain the 90s and subsequently adopted by the EU when they saw how simple, efficient and pragmatic it was. Other countries outside of Europe also recognised the value of having a single standard for travelling pets and are also signed up to the scheme.

In 2020, the British government decided that British pet-owners leaving Britain should not be part of this international arrangement, and that British pet owners should have to jump through the hoops that existed before the rest of the civilised world followed that British initiative of the 1990s. Note: this applies only to Britain, not the part of the UK on the island of Ireland, and foreign resident-British pets can come into Britain with their EU-issued passport.

Do you see where this trouble stems from? There is no "external jurisdiction" involved in your daughter's inconvenience: it's a nonsensical administrative procedure 100% Made in Britain. Probably has a Union Jack on the packaging to make it easier to bear. :rolleyes:

Normal One

Wee Jamie Bryson is on Newstalk at the moment cutting off his nose to spite his face. Wants a hard border and NI out of any customs union lol

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You can dance all you want. But it is rediculous that rabies vaccines are required for a dog to travel from an entirely rabies free part of the U.K. to another entirely rabies free part of the U.K. imposed by a non-rabies free external jurisdiction

You should have thought of that before now?

You didn't know the rules as they exist up to this morning...any idea when you are going to properly inform yourself?

BTW something else you don't seem to know, there are easements and facilities built into the protocol to sort out issues ---- if arrogant horns are pulled in and people sit down and do their jobs. And eventually that is what will happen. The EU won't be folding tents or removing the Protocol.

downcow

CelticRambler wrote: »

Nope, it shows how little you understand the workings of the EU. There are continual checks on everything that moves through the EU, within each country and between member states. This is not specific to Ireland-EU26 movements - it applies across the whole continent; and every country has the right - and obligation - to carry out spot checks on products that are in circulation in the Single Market.

This is how Irish inspectors found horse-meat being passed off as beef in lasagne coming in from EU suppliers. That's how it's supposed to work.

This is also why the UK landed itself with a massive fine - for not checking, and restricting, a load of Chinese crap from entering the Single Market.

If you think safeguarding your own health and that of all your family, friends and drum-beating friends is "pettiness", then maybe you should think of moving to a country where the authorities put a lower price on life.

BTW, the pet passport scheme is not all about rabies, so you'd do well to take that bee out of your bonnet until you're better informed on the subject.

You can dance all you want. But it is rediculous that rabies vaccines are required for a dog to travel from an entirely rabies free part of the U.K. to another entirely rabies free part of the U.K. imposed by a non-rabies free external jurisdiction

CelticRambler

downcow wrote: »

I had based my assumptions n all the posters on hear who have claimed there are no checks currently between Ireland and rest of ey.
So this just shows the nonsense of the pettiness by eu and Roi.

Nope, it shows how little you understand the workings of the EU. There are continual checks on everything that moves through the EU, within each country and between member states. This is not specific to Ireland-EU26 movements - it applies across the whole continent; and every country has the right - and obligation - to carry out spot checks on products that are in circulation in the Single Market.

This is how Irish inspectors found horse-meat being passed off as beef in lasagne coming in from EU suppliers. That's how it's supposed to work.

This is also why the UK landed itself with a massive fine - for not checking, and restricting, a load of Chinese crap from entering the Single Market.

If you think safeguarding your own health and that of all your family, friends and drum-beating friends is "pettiness", then maybe you should think of moving to a country where the authorities put a lower price on life.

BTW, the pet passport scheme is not all about rabies, so you'd do well to take that bee out of your bonnet until you're better informed on the subject.

Peregrinus

downcow wrote: »

Apologies I was wrong about that. I had based my assumptions on all the posters on hear who have claimed there are no checks currently between Ireland and rest of ey.
So this just shows the nonsense of the pettiness by eu and Roi.
There is no rabies on the british isles and there are already checks one way for rabies. Why o why are checks on rabies required inside the british isles. Absolute nonsense.

There are checks required because (a) the UK has not committed to EU standards for preventing the introduction and spread of rabies; and (b) the UK hasn't yet invoked the agreed mechanisms for seeking a waiver of the checks based on recognition of its own standards. It's not that hard to grasp, really.

If the UK doesn't want the checks it agreed to 18 months ago and has enshrined it its own laws, it could do one or other of these things. if it actually does want the checks so that it can keep on whingeing about them, it can carry on doing what it's doing right now.

If only there was some way of discerning the UK's true desires by looking at its actions!

downcow

Inquitus wrote: »

Downcow you are talking bollox, an animal coming from the EU also needs a valid rabies injection.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/21d40-pet-travel/#bringing-your-pet-dog-cat-or-ferret-into-ireland-from-another-eu-country

Apologies I was wrong about that. I had based my assumptions on all the posters on hear who have claimed there are no checks currently between Ireland and rest of ey.
So this just shows the nonsense of the pettiness by eu and Roi.
There is no rabies on the british isles and there are already checks one way for rabies. Why o why are checks on rabies required inside the british isles. Absolute nonsense.

muddypaws

downcow wrote: »

No. I am completely behind practical honest checks on the Irish Sea. I recognise the bio security of our island.
I would love we would work together to protect it.
Currently you can bring a dog from Eu mainland to Ireland with no vaccinations etc. Rabies exists on mainland Eu. There is no rabies on mainland U.K.
so let’s be honest with each other. What do you think that vaccinations are needed from Scotland but not from Greece.
Let’s have grown up conversations

You really should check up on the rules before you post.

Dogs entering Ireland from the continent must have a passport with a rabies vaccination, they are valid for 3 years but the dog can't travel until at least 21 days after vaccination. They have needed this from GB as well for the last few years, before Brexit, when the UK government started enforcing it. Dogs also need to be treated for worms with a vet stamp in the passport.

briany

CelticRambler wrote: »

Funny how you rabbit on about compromise and pragmatism, but your actual proposal is to cross the frictionless NI-RoI border so that you can bang your drums in an EU country. Did you ever think of telling your own Prime Minister that he should engage in a bit of compromise and pragmatism, seeing as it's his arrogance that's creating the problems?

Going to Dublin to protest, at least the locals might have some conception of what the protest is about. If you took that protest to London, locals wouldn't even have a notion that the protestors considered themselves British. That's if they were even paying attention to the protest, which they obviously wouldn't.

But either way, the net result is the same. Sweet FA. I'm not telling Unionists how they should feel about the NIP, but what I would say is that if they want to get rid of it, the solution is simply to vote in enough anti-NIP MLAs to strike it down. And if Unionists cannot do that, then maybe accept that they no longer have a majority such that they can dictate the direction of Northern Ireland?

CelticRambler

downcow wrote: »

Our people voted for brexit (I did not). I am a democrat. What you describe is not brexit. Eu are just playing silly burgers.

You've lost me. Controls on animal movements are very much part and parcel of Brexit. It was signalled from the very start. A French dog needs a passport to travel to Germany; a Spanish dog needs a passport to travel to Italy; an Irish dog need a passport to travel to Romania.

The British designed the pet passport scheme, but your prime minister decided to opt the whole lot of you out of it because of Brexit. The Gibraltarians (are they as British as the Orangemen?) put pragmatism before pride and have aligned themselves with the EU and the Schengen Area because anything else would be pure stupidity.

Funny how you rabbit on about compromise and pragmatism, but your actual proposal is to cross the frictionless NI-RoI border so that you can bang your drums in an EU country. Did you ever think of telling your own Prime Minister that he should engage in a bit of compromise and pragmatism, seeing as it's his arrogance that's creating the problems?

Inquitus

downcow wrote: »

No. I am completely behind practical honest checks on the Irish Sea. I recognise the bio security of our island.
I would love we would work together to protect it.
Currently you can bring a dog from Eu mainland to Ireland with no vaccinations etc. Rabies exists on mainland Eu. There is no rabies on mainland U.K.
so let’s be honest with each other. What do you think that vaccinations are needed from Scotland but not from Greece.
Let’s have grown up conversations

Downcow you are talking bollox, an animal coming from the EU also needs a valid rabies injection.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/21d40-pet-travel/#bringing-your-pet-dog-cat-or-ferret-into-ireland-from-another-eu-country

Junkyard Tom

CalisGirl wrote: »

anyone know what the EU's potential actions could be if the UK refuse to honour the NIP/trigger Article 50?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=117385347&postcount=127

CalisGirl

Moving away from the drama-rama, anyone know what the EU's potential actions could be if the UK refuse to honour the NIP/trigger Article 50? And what the effect of those actions would be for Ireland?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Not a problem. But stop pretending that there are sensible reasons for the current level of checks. Your answer is very illuminating. Full circle lol. The very reason for taking protests to Dublin

Rules downcow, the reason the EU works.

You want the benefits with none of the obligations.

Are you going to Dublin btw? When is it?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Now you want the benefits of being fully in the EU. Wish you could make up your minds up there.

The EU has rules, you knew that before Brexit and were told often enough about it. If you think a nation like the UK and how they have behaved is going to be trusted, think again, They blew that one long ago.

Not a problem. But stop pretending that there are sensible reasons for the current level of checks. Your answer is very illuminating. Full circle lol. The very reason for taking protests to Dublin