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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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innrain

They've changed them for the entire block of apartments and we didn't have a say. In fact we didn't know when they did it just got a letter thanking for "collaboration". Funny bit is that if I try to take a "smart" plan I'm told this is a standard meter. with the fixed time periods they are taking the piss of customers.

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

If there were only to be 3 rates, they should be something like (all including VAT):

4c night rate for 9 hours
12c day rate for 9 hours
30-40c peak rate for 6 hours (and climbing every year)

Currently I'm paying 4.79c night rate and 16.8c day rate with Energia EV option

That's Ex-VAT I'm guessing? Price is going up by 10% next month I think

It'd be interesting to see what habits need to change to reduce that evening peak

The obvious one I can think of is try to get people to have their main meal at lunchtime so there's less cooking demand in the evenings.

Hot dinners in schools would help a lot with this as I think a lot of parents only have dinner in the evenings because that's the only time their kids can have dinner

I wonder would other things like moving sports matches 2 hours earlier have much effect. There's always those stories going around about ESB engineers dreading half time in the world cup final because everyone decides to boil their kettles at once

unkel

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

That's Ex-VAT I'm guessing? Price is going up by 10% next month I think

It'd be interesting to see what habits need to change to reduce that evening peak

No, it's including VAT. Prices fixed for a year too.

And the only thing that changes habits is a stick and carrot approach. Just make electricity at peak time very expensive and most people will change their behaviour

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

No, it's including VAT. Prices fixed for a year too.

And the only thing that changes habits is a stick and carrot approach. Just make electricity at peak time very expensive and most people will change their behaviour

I thought the discount percentage was fixed but not the price? So as the base price goes up and down, your discounted rate will also go up and down

If you've managed to get the unit rate locked in then I must get you to ring up energia on my behalf next time

unkel

No my rates are fixed. I posted them up for someone else here a few weeks ago. Like yourself, first he didn't believe my prices included VAT and then he didn't believe my rates were fixed

4.79c night and 16.64c day. Including VAT. Fixed for the year (contract started a few months ago)

MJohnston

For comparison, the new smart Home Connect rates:

Day: 15.65
Night: 11.18
Peak: 16.40

Honestly, with both me and my wife working from home now, it might actually be cheaper for us to have the slightly lower day rate. Especially as peak is only 5 to 7pm.

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

If there were only to be 3 rates, they should be something like (all including VAT):

4c night rate for 9 hours
12c day rate for 9 hours
30-40c peak rate for 6 hours (and climbing every year)

That's quite a big stick you're wielding there & really hammering working families whose lives revolve around Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 working, with kids home from school in the evenings too, needing to be fed, showered & entertained etc.

Could we not just invest in more renewables & produce more "green" energy at peak times, rather than screw over those who have little choice?

In other words, a carrot?

We have close to the highest energy prices in the EU already, highest taxes, highest mortgage rates, highest rents......the list goes on......

graememk

fits wrote: »

I just got a letter to say they’d be installing smart meter in coming weeks. We are on a regular meter at the moment. I doubt I’ll be able to get a day night one now.

Ring up your provider and request a day night, theyll change it to a day night and won't put you on a smart meter - worst case is that they is that they refuse,

Best case you get to keep the day night

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

We have close to the highest energy prices in the EU already

People keep saying that and if it were true, I agree with your sentiments. Is it true though? A typical 24h electricity price of 13c/kWh incl. VAT is quite good compared to many other EU countries surely? In many of them you pay 25c-30c per kWh, so we have plenty of stick left (and our carrots are already way too generous - e.g. thousands of euro subsidy on a PV install, etc.)

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

We have close to the highest energy prices in the EU already

unkel wrote: »

People keep saying that and if it were true, I agree with your sentiments. Is it true though?

https://www.bonkers.ie/blog/gas-electricity/irish-electricity-prices-fourth-most-expensive-in-eu/

We should have far more renewables given what we pay IMO & far, far more chargers too................if you build it they will come.

We're laggards as usual but great for levies & taxes.

It's actually quite depressing when you see what other countries do, all the while we have a "green" transport & energy minister.
Dublin buses - diesel until 2050 :rolleyes:.

unkel

Yeah I have seen those stats, but they make no sense to me. They state a typical price for a unit in Ireland is about 25c/kWh. Any eejit that pays that deserves to get hit with a massive stick

13c/kWh is a good rate, better than most EU countries

Totally agree with the rest of your post though. Ireland is the best country in the world for wind energy. We should already be producing 150-200% of our total annual electricity needs through wind, and aiming to reach about 300-400% within a decade

liamog

Certainly when you look at the Eurostat dataset for domestic energy prices Ireland is the 4th highest in Europe.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/infographs/energy_prices/enprices.html

I wonder if our prices are distorted due to the practice of vendor discounting.

unkel

liamog wrote: »

I wonder if our prices are distorted due to the practice of vendor discounting.

That's probably what it is, Liam. I have no other explanation for it. Surely most people shop around for the best rate every year, about 13c/kWh incl VAT at the moment and has been similar enough for the last 10 years or so

cannco253

https://electrek.co/2021/06/16/tesla-talks-open-supercharger-network-other-automakers-germany/

Pie in the sky ? I’m sure Tesla owners wouldn’t be too happy about it if it happened.

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

Surely most people shop around for the best rate every year

I bet they don't! I reckon a minority do & the plethora of tariffs/discounts/cashbacks etc. are designed to obfuscate & confuse too.

Companies want to maximise profits, not save consumers money. Our government seems to want to follow suit - maximise taxes.

Anyway, just as all hope begins to ebb away & you're down to turtle mode with 2% remaining, you stumble across a handy free energy source......

Not a single Type 2 socket on the darn thing

.
Awesome soundtrack though.......woof......woof.....woof.....woof.....

liamog

cannco253 wrote: »

https://electrek.co/2021/06/16/tesla-talks-open-supercharger-network-other-automakers-germany/

Pie in the sky ? I’m sure Tesla owners wouldn’t be too happy about it if it happened.

I actually hope this happens, and that Tesla charge around 80c/kWh for non signed up manufacturers, mainly just to shut up the Tesla owners who intentionally misrepresent the Ionity business model.

Plus I'd also be happy paying 80c/kWh when I was stuck and needed a charge

markpb

cannco253 wrote: »

https://electrek.co/2021/06/16/tesla-talks-open-supercharger-network-other-automakers-germany/

Pie in the sky ? I’m sure Tesla owners wouldn’t be too happy about it if it happened.

Electrek have an amazing ability to write an entire article about a single fart by Elon or anyone mentioning Tesla. In this case, a politician claims to be talking to vendors such as Tesla about an interoperable network. I’m sure German politicians are prone to talking for the sake of their public image, just like ours are.

silver_sky

liamog wrote: »

I actually hope this happens, and that Tesla charge around 80c/kWh for non signed up manufacturers, mainly just to shut up the Tesla owners who intentionally misrepresent the Ionity business model.

Plus I'd also be happy paying 80c/kWh when I was stuck and needed a charge

I suppose they could "do an Ionity" if they were forced to open the network

cannco253

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-supercharger-all-ev-compatibility-andreas-scheuer/

Well the technoking himself has already stated it back in December.

“Tesla Superchargers are being made accessible to other electric cars.”

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

I actually hope this happens, and that Tesla charge around 80c/kWh for non signed up manufacturers, mainly just to shut up the Tesla owners who intentionally misrepresent the Ionity business model.

Plus I'd also be happy paying 80c/kWh when I was stuck and needed a charge

Likewise, I'd happily pay 80c/kWh if it means I got a high quality charging network for the odd time I need it

slave1

cannco253 wrote: »

https://electrek.co/2021/06/16/tesla-talks-open-supercharger-network-other-automakers-germany/

Pie in the sky ? I’m sure Tesla owners wouldn’t be too happy about it if it happened.

This has come up before, doubt it will ever happen, Superchargers are quite dumb, no more than multiple home charger boards inside the gravestones. The software protocols that non-Tesla cars would have to be capable of for usage and most importantly payment is immense.
Yes, Elon has said Tesla are open to other cars using the network in the past but the full quote is that they would have to adhere to the existing front and back end Tesla protocols without any compromise from Tesla.

unkel

So what about last year when Musk visited Diess? As a publicity stunt, Tesla allowed all cars to charge at the V3 superchargers for a few days. This "software bug" (my hole) got great publicity. Free publicity, as usual.

I don't believe for a minute it's difficult to let other cars charge technically. Perhaps the billing for it is tricky.

AndyBoBandy

As Slave says, the Superchargers are fairly dumb (when say compared to the ESB DC chargers, which are connected to home base...).

All the logic, communication, metering etc is handled by the car as opposed to the charger itself.... so for non Tesla's to use them (but unlike the V3 free for a few days publicity stunt when they simply free vended), it would take a fair bit of new software/logic to allow the cars connect with Tesla servers and tell Tesla, which charger they are using, for how long, and how much energy did they receive for billing purposes etc...

What EV's out there other than Tesla's and VW ID.'s can get OTA software updates?

I'm sure Tesla will happily allow other manufacturers to use the SuC network, but at what cost? (most likely the keys to the castle, and what OM is going to give the 'new' kid on the block access to their software..?).

ELM327

I've said this multiple times.
It's easy to implement free for all non teslas at the V3 units. The hard part is billing.

I would guess that an app would be needed to communicate with base (which a Tesla already does via the car not the SuC) to allow charging.

I would hope beyond hope that elon - as a fellow aspie like myself - will do what we folks do best and let logic prevail, and not open up the golden goose!

AndyBoBandy

1 thing that would go down like a lead balloon with Tesla owners would be arriving to a SuC site and seeing 3 Tesla's and 5 ID.s all plugged in, and having to wait......

maybe only designating 2 SuC's per site (or 25% of SuC's per site) for 'all EV's would work better, but still, I'd be a pretty pi$$ed off Tesla driver arriving at any SuC that was fully loaded, and even 1 car wasn't a Tesla...

ELM327

Yes, that's a big no no and I hope they never do it. The whole thing behind buying a tesla is seamless ease of use even on long trips.
If I have to queue behind bloody skodas and VW to get to the SuC then whats the point?

AndyBoBandy

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes, that's a big no no and I hope they never do it. The whole thing behind buying a tesla is seamless ease of use even on long trips.

My OH had an overnight business trip to Cork on Tuesday night, and wanted to take the ICE to save all the hassle... She was fine using the SuC's, but would need a charge down there. The hotel she stayed at do have 3 Tesla Destination chargers, but even then, if they were not working, or occupied, she'd need an eCars charge somewhere to get back up to Ballacolla...

I convinced her to take the Tesla, which she did, and it was grand.. (all 3 chargers in the hotel were available, however they wouldn't start a charge!! (so it was panic stations). I called her and asked her to press the reset button on the side of the unit and then it started working.... (only 4kW @ 6 amps, but glorious volts nonetheless), so the entire trip of 600km, done with nothing more than 3 plug and charge charging sessions.....

Had we have had any other EV, there's not a chance in hell she'd have taken it, and would have ICE'd it all the way...

TitianGerm

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes, that's a big no no and I hope they never do it. The whole thing behind buying a tesla is seamless ease of use even on long trips.
If I have to queue behind bloody skodas and VW to get to the SuC then whats the point?

If they opened up the charging to other manufacturers they'd open up a huge potential revenue stream which could easily surpass profits made on Tesla cars themselves (Tesla users get free charging don't they?).

Tesla are the same as every company, they want to increase profits and drive share value. Adding an extra revenue stream would be massive to those goals and a few pee'd off Tesla owners might not be enough to deter them actually doing it.

AndyBoBandy

TitianGerm wrote: »

(Tesla users get free charging don't they?)

No.

Some older Tesla Model S's (like Unkel's) have free Supercharging for life, but all new Tesla's have to pay for it at around €0.30/kWh.

The older ones will eventually attrition off...

New Model 3 Owners can get 1,500 free km's if they use a referral code to buy, and likewise, if someone uses their referral code, they can get an additional 1,500 km of free Supercharging.

I used a referral and had mine used 3 times, giving me a total of 6,000 free km's. In 15 months, we've only used 1,137 km's, so I've til October 2022 to use up the remaining 4,853...

The balance reduces very slowly... for example on Tuesday my OH put 26kWh (54%) into the car, and it only took 84km off the balance (whereas 26kWh will actually get us 162km of motorway driving at 120km/h). On Wednesday she put in 25kWh (50%) and it only took 100km's off the balance... so they last for ages....

TitianGerm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

No.

Some older Tesla Model S's (like Unkel's) have free Supercharging for life, but all new Tesla's have to pay for it at around @0.30/kWh.

The older ones will eventually attrition off...

You get free charging from referrals though don't you? Would one referral get you enough for more than one year or does that expire?