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The Irish protocol.

downcow

The protocol will be challenged next week in the british high courts.
I am interested in what you guys believe is an appropriate way forward if it is declared illegal, as I have a haunch it will.
Is it appropriate to continue down an illegal road or will it be time for a rethink?

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FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

No. I am completely behind practical honest checks on the Irish Sea. I recognise the bio security of our island.
I would love we would work together to protect it.
Currently you can bring a dog from Eu mainland to Ireland with no vaccinations etc. Rabies exists on mainland Eu. There is no rabies on mainland U.K.
so let’s be honest with each other. What do you think that vaccinations are needed from Scotland but not from Greece.
Let’s have grown up conversations

Now you want the benefits of being fully in the EU. Wish you could make up your minds up there.

The EU has rules, you knew that before Brexit and were told often enough about it. If you think a nation like the UK and how they have behaved is going to be trusted, think again, They blew that one long ago.

downcow

CelticRambler wrote: »

So why did the UK make such a song and dance about going it alone? All they had to do was apply to be "Part one listed" and it'd have been business as usual for all those travelling with pets to anywhere in the EU. But no, isolationism took priority, and Johnson said "F*** you" to the people of Northern Ireland.

To borrow twinytwo's phrase: read the next part slowly so it sinks in - the British government decided that NI pet owners should bear the cost and inconvenience of British isolationism.

Just like the EU was quite happy to offer British musicians a "free pass" to all their usual continental venues, they were quite happy to offer British pet owners continued participation in the (made in Britain) EU Pet Passport Scheme. On both counts, the British government rejected the offer, because it meant offering the same thing in return.

Now what's your gripe with Dublin again?

Our people voted for brexit (I did not). I am a democrat. What you describe is not brexit. Eu are just playing silly burgers. It’s only a matter of time until there is some pragmatism

downcow

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Do you disagree with the idea that there should be animal controls between Britain and Ireland?
Do you recall BSE?
Do you recall Foot & Mouth?
It is important that we protect this island from any third country that does not follow the same veterinary standards as us. Do you seriously disagree with that principal? Is your bias that entrenched that you cannot see past it?

No. I am completely behind practical honest checks on the Irish Sea. I recognise the bio security of our island.
I would love we would work together to protect it.
Currently you can bring a dog from Eu mainland to Ireland with no vaccinations etc. Rabies exists on mainland Eu. There is no rabies on mainland U.K.
so let’s be honest with each other. What do you think that vaccinations are needed from Scotland but not from Greece.
Let’s have grown up conversations

PokeHerKing

twinytwo wrote: »

im convinced now you are a wind up merchant?

Either that or you are completely deluded/brainwashed. You are completely oblivious to the role the Tories and the DUP have played in all that - this is their baby, you need to own it with them.

Why do you think the border was the Irish sea? That is the most logical outcome and the one... read the next part slowly so it sinks in... the UK government agreed to.

Ensure the checks are smoothed? - do tell us why we would do that and what mechanism we would use?

This should be good for a laugh. :pac:

As for violence in Dublin, lol

I'm astounded some posters continue to engage him/her in good faith. Complete windup merchant.

Can't wait to see you in Dublin downcow, we should grab a pint!:pac:

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

My daughter is coming home from Scotland next week. It is costing her over£200 in vet bills and rabies vaccines to get her dog accross the Irish Sea. U.K. has not a single case of rabies residing in it. Eu has. That’s one wee example

Nothing to add to the comprehensive answers you have received from other posters on that.

Other than...you guys between you - Unionists and the British - made that bed for yourselves.

CelticRambler

downcow wrote: »

My daughter is coming home from Scotland next week. It is costing her over£200 in vet bills and rabies vaccines to get her dog accross the Irish Sea.

Further to the above, remember that the same rules apply to British people living in France, as do pet-owners living in Jersey who wish to take their cat or dog across the 25km stretch of water between the two territories.

But hey, guess what: those sensible British people in the Gibraltar government applied for, and were awarded "part one" listed status, so their pet can flit in and out of the EU with all the freedom they enjoyed before.

So you see - the EU has no problem coming to perfectly workable agreements with the British. It just requires certain British politicians to put the interests of their constituents ahead of tribal warfare and nationalistic willy-waving.

fash

downcow wrote: »

It’s you that is deluded. Violence and instability unfortunately gets results. That’s what people have learned. Why do you think all the checks were moved to the Irish Sea.
I am absolutely certain that if trouble kicks off on a weekly basis in dublin and the peace process is destabilising, then Roi will ensure the checks on the Irish Sea are smoothed. It’s very unfortunate that Roi need to be brought to compromise.

Downcow, unionists were warned prior to Brexit that Brexit would result in a border - yet the majority of them voted for it on the basis that they could torch the Good Friday Agreement and screw nationalists with a highly disruptive border between NI & Irl etc.
Given that a border had to be made, do you accept that it is wonderfully sweet poetic justice that Brexiter unionists get to reap what they showed?

guy2231

downcow wrote: »

My daughter is coming home from Scotland next week. It is costing her over£200 in vet bills and rabies vaccines to get her dog accross the Irish Sea. U.K. has not a single case of rabies residing in it. Eu has. That’s one wee example

Look at the pathetic reasons unionists use to remain part of the United Kingsom.

CelticRambler

downcow wrote: »

My daughter is coming home from Scotland next week. It is costing her over£200 in vet bills and rabies vaccines to get her dog accross the Irish Sea. U.K. has not a single case of rabies residing in it. Eu has. That’s one wee example

So why did the UK make such a song and dance about going it alone? All they had to do was apply to be "Part one listed" and it'd have been business as usual for all those travelling with pets to anywhere in the EU. But no, isolationism took priority, and Johnson said "F*** you" to the people of Northern Ireland.

To borrow twinytwo's phrase: read the next part slowly so it sinks in - the British government decided that NI pet owners should bear the cost and inconvenience of British isolationism.

Just like the EU was quite happy to offer British musicians a "free pass" to all their usual continental venues, they were quite happy to offer British pet owners continued participation in the (made in Britain) EU Pet Passport Scheme. On both counts, the British government rejected the offer, because it meant offering the same thing in return.

Now what's your gripe with Dublin again?

Seth Brundle

downcow wrote: »

My daughter is coming home from Scotland next week. It is costing her over£200 in vet bills and rabies vaccines to get her dog accross the Irish Sea. U.K. has not a single case of rabies residing in it. Eu has. That’s one wee example

Do you disagree with the idea that there should be animal controls between Britain and Ireland?
Do you recall BSE?
Do you recall Foot & Mouth?
It is important that we protect this island from any third country that does not follow the same veterinary standards as us. Do you seriously disagree with that principal? Is your bias that entrenched that you cannot see past it?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because the British proposed it after they rejected May's backstop?

Checks are smooth...they are causing next to zero impact. If they are causing impacts...back it up and show us.

My daughter is coming home from Scotland next week. It is costing her over£200 in vet bills and rabies vaccines to get her dog accross the Irish Sea. U.K. has not a single case of rabies residing in it. Eu has. That’s one wee example

twinytwo

downcow wrote: »

It’s you that is deluded. Violence and instability unfortunately gets results. That’s what people have learned. Why do you think all the checks were moved to the Irish Sea.
I am absolutely certain that if trouble kicks off on a weekly basis in dublin and the peace process is destabilising, then Roi will ensure the checks on the Irish Sea are smoothed. It’s very unfortunate that Roi need to be brought to compromise.

im convinced now you are a wind up merchant?

Either that or you are completely deluded/brainwashed. You are completely oblivious to the role the Tories and the DUP have played in all that - this is their baby, you need to own it with them.

Why do you think the border was the Irish sea? That is the most logical outcome and the one... read the next part slowly so it sinks in... the UK government agreed to.

Ensure the checks are smoothed? - do tell us why we would do that and what mechanism we would use?

This should be good for a laugh. :pac:

As for violence in Dublin, lol

CelticRambler

bilbot79 wrote: »

People have to stop thinking only about their own perspective. It's hard I know but you've got to let unionists be British.

There are plenty of British people in the Republic who are let be British, day in, day out. There's a load of Poles too, in the Republic, who are let be Polish, day in, day out. They even have their own shops selling Polish sausages, and nobody cares one way or the other. Same for the Brazilians - accepted as people with a different perspective on the world, but who have chosen to make the best of a life in Ireland.

The unionists say they want to be British, but annually pledge their loyalty to the Dutch monarchy in preference to their English Queen. I wonder what the DUP thinks of the young Amalia, Princess of Orange, voluntarily deciding to forego her monthly allowance until she does something to earn it. Can we expect the Unionists to follow this new Orange tradition and reject all undeserved handouts?

Speedline

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Just that lord Frost has confirmed that the NIP does not affect the constitutional status of NI.
Not sure what the Loyalist criminals and terrorists would be protesting about so. I think it is simply because they can't buy sausages that nobody wants.

I read somewhere that NI exports more sausages than they import.

Seth Brundle

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

did I get everything?

Just that lord Frost has confirmed that the NIP does not affect the constitutional status of NI.
Not sure what the Loyalist criminals and terrorists would be protesting about so. I think it is simply because they can't buy sausages that nobody wants.

FrancieBrady

schmittel wrote: »

Exactly - there are no shortage of non Irish people who are currently happily living in Ireland, no reason why it should be any different for Northern Irish.

One of the 'best places in the world to live' apparently.

hometruths

guy2231 wrote: »

We have to let unionists be British? So the majority of people in Ireland have to stop our hopes of a United Ireland because 45% of people in the North don't want it?

Under a United Ireland they can call themselves whatever they want, British, Chinese, African nobody will care what they call themselves they will be free to call themselves whatever they want.

Exactly - there are no shortage of non Irish people who are currently happily living in Ireland, no reason why it should be any different for Northern Irish.

guy2231

bilbot79 wrote: »

There's more to being a staunch republican than wanting a united Ireland. It can involve a lot of the kind of hatred and bitterness that instills fear and loathing in unionists, which in turn instills fear and loathing in more Irish people etc etc.

I would like a united Ireland but a Northern Ireland that is at peace with itself and others is a vastly higher priority and if there is no UI in my lifetime or my children's, so what. Who cares.

As for the protocol. It should stay but the likes of George Osborne and David McWilliams should stop stoking up this idea of an inevitable UI because it's not inevitable. In my view remaining as is would be more attractive to most Northern Irish people were it not for the hatred and fear of the other sides victory.

There will be no border poll until such a thing is not divisive. When that time comes there will be a greater middle ground made up of people like me whose borders go as far as their family and friends and no further. Patriotism and sect have brought nothing but misery on NI at the expense of real progress. It's time to get a life and accept that those pesky folks over the wall aren't going anywhere and we just have to live together

We have to let unionists be British? So the majority of people in Ireland have to stop our hopes of a United Ireland because 45% of people in the North don't want it?

Under a United Ireland they can call themselves whatever they want, British, Chinese, African nobody will care what they call themselves they will be free to call themselves whatever they want.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

It’s you that is deluded. Violence and instability unfortunately gets results. That’s what people have learned. Why do you think all the checks were moved to the Irish Sea.

Because the British proposed it after they rejected May's backstop?

I am absolutely certain that if trouble kicks off on a weekly basis in dublin and the peace process is destabilising, then Roi will ensure the checks on the Irish Sea are smoothed. It’s very unfortunate that Roi need to be brought to compromise.

Checks are smooth...they are causing next to zero impact. If they are causing impacts...back it up and show us.

downcow

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Riots in Dublin will obviously impact Dublin more than Belfast. Can't argue with your logic there for once.

It will not have any impact re the NI protocol. The fact you and your mates think it will just shows the level of delusion permeating unionism.

It’s you that is deluded. Violence and instability unfortunately gets results. That’s what people have learned. Why do you think all the checks were moved to the Irish Sea.
I am absolutely certain that if trouble kicks off on a weekly basis in dublin and the peace process is destabilising, then Roi will ensure the checks on the Irish Sea are smoothed. It’s very unfortunate that Roi need to be brought to compromise.

ArthurDayne

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Riots in Dublin will obviously impact Dublin more than Belfast. Can't argue with your logic there for once.

It will not have any impact re the NI protocol. The fact you and your mates think it will just shows the level of delusion permeating unionism.

I think we all know though that the real point of such protests would not really be to have an impact on the NI Protocol — at least not in the eyes of the political leadership. The DUP know they have f**ked up royally, they know that they were wrong to place their trust in Tory Brexiteers who were interested only in English Nationalism, and they know badgering Dublin will achieve nothing. But the problem is that they can’t admit this too overtly — because the DUP doesn’t do humility, they never have. They have always postured themselves as being righteous Bible-adhering Christians who are the macho political arm of bolstering the Union against the threat of Sinn Féin and a United Ireland — and that every Unionist vote for other Unionist parties or Alliance is a waste and thus a victory for Republicanism. This is the key consistent central pillar of their strength, which helps them dodge around scandals and make up for their antiquated views.

The NI Protocol has called into question that pillar, and has put a huge dent in their credentials. So, they will do what they often do — evoke the Southern Papist Republican bogeyman who are ever hellbent on destroying Ulster, and focus the blame away from themselves and towards the South. Not because they think it will change the Protocol, but because they think it will avoid any form of mea culpa and keep voters in line.

Seth Brundle

Frost continues with his lying about discussing the protocol to the NI Affairs Committee in Westminster...

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1405084364342546432

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1405084366745788416

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1405084672137302016

...and as someone in that Twitter thread replied to remind us of his original position...
E3_d6IsWEAMlREf?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Deleted User]

Have been importing materials from the UK to NI for years. Been ramping up again over the last few months and haven’t had any issues. This isn’t even about trade.
Really the wailing about it is the height of nonsense, no way is a sea border anything like as disruptive as a land one would have been. There’s a natural barrier there which makes it easier.
Brexit has been a monumental own goal for the DUP, not even the result but the approach since. Just belligerent for the sake of it. The likes of Bryson are acting like it’s 1985, just want trouble for its own sake.
Unionism needs a bit of leadership, people to show them that they aren’t as vulnerable as the fringe tell them, and that they must co-operate with Catholics.
I actually think a lot of Protestants understand this themselves and will turn away from the nutters. I’ll bet the Alliance and UUP take heaps of support from the DUP next election.

FrancieBrady

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Riots in Dublin will obviously impact Dublin more than Belfast. Can't argue with your logic there for once.

It will not have any impact re the NI protocol. The fact you and your mates think it will just shows the level of delusion permeating unionism.

The fact he thinks they'll get to do it every Saturday is even more deluded.

It's an attention seeking, 'look at me' gambit from a sidelined Bryson, I wouldn't give it too much attention other than derision.

PokeHerKing

downcow wrote: »

I don’t disagree with you. I think most unionists would rather watch republicans rioting in Dublin like during love Ulster than watch young loyalists rioting in Belfast.
It would also have more impact on Roi

Riots in Dublin will obviously impact Dublin more than Belfast. Can't argue with your logic there for once.

It will not have any impact re the NI protocol. The fact you and your mates think it will just shows the level of delusion permeating unionism.

FrancieBrady

bilbot79 wrote: »

I agree the DUP tried to have their cake and eat it. It was a bad gamble for them and caused everyone a world of problems

How great would it be (for those of Irish ethnicity) if we removed that border once and for all.

People have to stop thinking only about their own perspective. It's hard I know but you've got to let unionists be British.

They aren't even a proper minority yet and you're talking about pulling the rug from under them. It's different if the demographic supports it but right now there is no reason to be removing any borders

It now suits the British, the Irish and the rest of the EU to 'remove the border'. Where have you been?

*And Unionists can identify as British or Martian for all anyone I know cares.

Junkyard Tom

bilbot79 wrote: »

How great would it be (for those of Irish ethnicity) if we removed that border once and for all.

I think it would be better for us all including people with unionist heritage especially the moderates you were alluding to.

bilbot79

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The border literally divided our country and it is still, in the 21st Century, the cause of all these problems for the people of Ireland, because the DUP saw an opportunity to harden it.

How great it would be for us all if we didn't have to care too much about Brexit at all. The beginning point of ending these problems is removing that border once and for all.

I agree the DUP tried to have their cake and eat it. It was a bad gamble for them and caused everyone a world of problems

How great would it be (for those of Irish ethnicity) if we removed that border once and for all.

People have to stop thinking only about their own perspective. It's hard I know but you've got to let unionists be British.

They aren't even a proper minority yet and you're talking about pulling the rug from under them. It's different if the demographic supports it but right now there is no reason to be removing any borders

Junkyard Tom

bilbot79 wrote: »

There will be no border poll until such a thing is not divisive.

The border literally divided our country and it is still, in the 21st Century, the cause of all these problems for the people of Ireland, because the DUP saw an opportunity to harden it.

How great it would be for us all if we didn't have to care too much about Brexit at all. The beginning point of ending these problems is removing that border once and for all.

bilbot79

guy2231 wrote: »

Yes tell the republicans to get a life

Definition of a republican: Someone who wishes to see a 32 county Irish state free from British rule.

These republicans sure do need to get a life

There's more to being a staunch republican than wanting a united Ireland. It can involve a lot of the kind of hatred and bitterness that instills fear and loathing in unionists, which in turn instills fear and loathing in more Irish people etc etc.

I would like a united Ireland but a Northern Ireland that is at peace with itself and others is a vastly higher priority and if there is no UI in my lifetime or my children's, so what. Who cares.

As for the protocol. It should stay but the likes of George Osborne and David McWilliams should stop stoking up this idea of an inevitable UI because it's not inevitable. In my view remaining as is would be more attractive to most Northern Irish people were it not for the hatred and fear of the other sides victory.

There will be no border poll until such a thing is not divisive. When that time comes there will be a greater middle ground made up of people like me whose borders go as far as their family and friends and no further. Patriotism and sect have brought nothing but misery on NI at the expense of real progress. It's time to get a life and accept that those pesky folks over the wall aren't going anywhere and we just have to live together