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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

brianhere

All social/population control measures introduced by the state security apparatus as a result of this health scare will be, and have always intended to be, permanent in my view. Here are a few reasons why:
a) Because they already have shown that they are stringing people along. The publicans, for example, have been assured every couple of weeks for the whole summer that they will be allowed to reopen, but the government had no intention of allowing this. First it was to stop the spread of the disease altogether, then it was 'flattening the curve' and now it is in response to an increase in cases which they know perfectly well had to follow an increase in testing. You don't want to be the donkey chasing the carrot here!

b) Because they have invested so much money and time in changing the whole apparatus of society, in schools for example, and other places. Clearly these changes were not implemented in order to disappear in only a few weeks, they show the planning and expense of permanent measures.

c) Because the state has a record of never releasing back to the population rights that they seized during some panic. A few examples:
i) During the hype about TB in the 1950s the state introduced a voluntary scheme to control the disease in cattle. It involved those who had tested negative for the disease to be given a special tag and the farmer a 'herd number'. This voluntary scheme then evolved into the state controlling all aspects of agricultural activity by only allowing any such activity - even keeping a few hens - with the permission of the state, via compulsory herd numbers.
ii) Similar to this current panic, in the 1970s the state amended earlier WWII legislation to enable it to abolish jury trials. This was a great shock to the legal profession - even to the then President - and affront to the time honoured legal practices in Ireland but it was rushed through on the basis of sunset clauses whereby it would have to be renewed every year, and hence was temporary. Of course it is still with us long after the troubles have ended.
iii) After 9/11 and some hyped episodes like 'underwear bombers', this state and all around the world introduced time consuming and very intrusive security procedures particularly at airports. This of course is still with us long after the scare has died down.

d) This last point I am sure some of you will not get, but I will make it anyway. These measures are being rolled out precisely because they have huge social and population control advantages for the state, hence they are only piggy backing on the virus to do what they have all along planned to do, and hence have no intention of ever releasing you in the future from their newly introduced grip.

So look if you want to get your life back you should join the demonstrations next Saturday at 2.00pm at the Customs House and the Dáil in Dublin. You will not get released from this vice otherwise, they will compel you to harm your own health via vaccines and masks (of course it harms your health by restricting your breathing, and harming your health does not help somebody else), and otherwise we will descend further into this nightmare of Communist style spying on neighbours and bullying people in the name of social conformity.

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Himnydownunder

I’m not going to bother giving any more alternative views here. It seems on Boards.ie unless you say “Ireland did a good job with the pandemic,” “Stephen Donnelly is a legend,” “we are doing really well with our vaccine roll out” and/ or “glad the pandemic is over now and the good times are ahead,” you will be shouted down and trolled to death. People really don’t want to even listen to any view other than the one being touted by the mainstream media.

Fighting Tao

Himnydownunder wrote: »

I’m not going to bother giving any more alternative views here. It seems on Boards.ie unless you say “Ireland did a good job with the pandemic,” “Stephen Donnelly is a legend,” “we are doing really well with our vaccine roll out” and/ or “glad the pandemic is over now and the good times are ahead,” you will be shouted down and trolled to death. People really don’t want to even listen to any view other than the one being touted by the mainstream media.

But this thread isn’t about any of that stuff. You are the person introducing it. All people here are trying to find out is what will be permanent, and the evidence for it.

[Deleted User]

Himnydownunder wrote: »

I’m not going to bother giving any more alternative views here.
...
People really don’t really want to even listen to any view other than the one being touted by the mainstream media.

But we've been asking you to explain your view. We've asked you repeatedly.
Now not only have not explained your view, you're now declaring that you're never going to tell us because we keep asking you.

That doesn't make a ton of sense.

To be honest, it sounds an awful lot like you don't have a view that's sold or makes sense.
And now it sounds like you're trying to pretend otherwise.

robinph

Himnydownunder wrote: »

I’m not going to bother giving any more alternative views here. It seems on Boards.ie unless you say “Ireland did a good job with the pandemic,” “Stephen Donnelly is a legend,” “we are doing really well with our vaccine roll out” and/ or “glad the pandemic is over now and the good times are ahead,” you will be shouted down and trolled to death. People really don’t want to even listen to any view other than the one being touted by the mainstream media.

There are plenty of threads in other forums on boards to post critically about how different countries have dealt with the pandemic and what they have done wrong. This thread is for people who claim that there is some variation of no pandemic, or that it's a big conspiracy by some unknown <other> and that the rest of us are all being tricked somehow.

Dohnjoe

"I have a prediction that this thing is going to happen"

-Okay why is that thing going to happen?

"Because there's a conspiracy"

-Okay, and what's the conspiracy?

"Too many questions on this forum, I'm leaving"

Timberrrrrrrr

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"I have a prediction that this thing is going to happen"

-Okay why is that thing going to happen?

"Because there's a conspiracy"

-Okay, and what's the conspiracy?

"Too many questions on this forum, I'm leaving"

Pretty much every conspiracy theorist in every thread since God knows how long.

Dohnjoe

Also worth pointing out that this poster is stating that another lockdown will occur in September. Not "could" or "might" followed by normal reasoning, just a flat-out Mystic Meg do-or-die prediction.

That's very different from the fact that measures could hypothetically be introduced if something unexpected or extreme happened, e.g. a new variant was more resistant to vaccines, there was a totally new virus, etc.

So if something, anything related to any lockdown measure occurs in the 2nd half of this year, 100% this poster will return to gloat they were "right" all along. If it doesn't, we won't see sight nor sound of them. That's how conspiracy theory forum predictions work, sheer brute force, countless people making countless guesses, eventually someone gets something vaguely right, and of course they are treated like some sort of "prophet" by likeminded individuals.

astrofool

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Also worth pointing out that this poster is stating that another lockdown will occur in September. Not "could" or "might" followed by normal reasoning, just a flat-out Mystic Meg do-or-die prediction.

That's very different from the fact that measures could hypothetically be introduced if something unexpected or extreme happened, e.g. a new variant was more resistant to vaccines, there was a totally new virus, etc.

So if something, anything related to any lockdown measure occurs in the 2nd half of this year, 100% this poster will return to gloat they were "right" all along. If it doesn't, we won't see sight nor sound of them. That's how conspiracy theory forum predictions work, sheer brute force, countless people making countless guesses, eventually someone gets something vaguely right, and of course they are treated like some sort of "prophet" by likeminded individuals.

And we can use this post to point out that they were just making random guesses as their prediction wasn't based on any facts and data

Dohnjoe

astrofool wrote: »

And we can use this post to point out that they were just making random guesses as their prediction wasn't based on any facts and data

Exactly the reason I wrote it. I've been here too long.

Pinch Flat

Seems to be a common trait among tin foil hatters that they're warning us and that they're then right. Usually based on some sketchy dot joining and pseudo facts/ science.

[Deleted User]

Getting pretty close to 5000 posts and yet not one person has been able to explain what measures will be permenant.

bigsuge1

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9692209/Leaked-Step-4-Whitehall-document-hints-new-normal-July-19.html

seamus

King Mob wrote: »

Getting pretty close to 5000 posts and yet not one person has been able to explain what measures will be permenant.

The best thing about this thread is the title. Since the boiling frog theory has been largely debunked. The frog will jump out when he gets uncomfortable. Some data suggests that there is a really, really slow threshold of warming where the frog won't jump out due to the heat, but it's so slow that the frog is likely to just jump out for air or food or whatever before you get to boil him.

If you want to boil a frog, the best way is actually to throw him into a pot of boiling water, since even if he does jump out, he'll be dead quickly and you can throw him back in.

The allegory would likely hold true for introducing wide-ranging social control measures too. A swift crackdown followed by brutal suppression of any resistance would yield a much more compliant population rather than trying to introduce measures under false pretences and then keep them going without any physical enforcement.

[Deleted User]

seamus wrote: »

The best thing about this thread is the title. Since the boiling frog theory has been largely debunked. The frog will jump out when he gets uncomfortable. Some data suggests that there is a really, really slow threshold of warming where the frog won't jump out due to the heat, but it's so slow that the frog is likely to just jump out for air or food or whatever before you get to boil him.

If you want to boil a frog, the best way is actually to throw him into a pot of boiling water, since even if he does jump out, he'll be dead quickly and you can throw him back in.

The allegory would likely hold true for introducing wide-ranging social control measures too. A swift crackdown followed by brutal suppression of any resistance would yield a much more compliant population rather than trying to introduce measures under false pretences and then keep them going without any physical enforcement.

Which is generally why conspiracy mongers stay away from pronouncements like that.
To make them marketable, you need to have a deadline to give them a sense of urgency and drama. If the deadline is just vague and open, it doesn't really hook people.
But giving them a deadline means that eventually, they'll be shown to be wrong.
An example of this is all the claims about Jade Helm a few years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories

Conspiracy mongers get a lot more play out of the boiling frog thing as it can stretch out indefinitely and everything they point to can be a dramatic step towards boiling point. You also don't need to have a deadline, you can always postpone it.
Like now, when restrictions are eased and it becomes undeniable that none of them are going to be permanent for any sinister reason, conspiracy theorists aren't going to say that they were wrong. We'll start hearing how that Covid 19 was "a test run" and they were "seeing how compliant we are." etc.
Then in about 10 years when the next major global event rolls round, the cycle will repeat and conspiracy theorists will pretend that all these claims being made on this thread never happened.

Dohnjoe

King Mob wrote: »

Which is generally why conspiracy mongers stay away from pronouncements like that.
To make them marketable, you need to have a deadline to give them a sense of urgency and drama. If the deadline is just vague and open, it doesn't really hook people.
But giving them a deadline means that eventually, they'll be shown to be wrong.
An example of this is all the claims about Jade Helm a few years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories

Conspiracy mongers get a lot more play out of the boiling frog thing as it can stretch out indefinitely and everything they point to can be a dramatic step towards boiling point. You also don't need to have a deadline, you can always postpone it.
Like now, when restrictions are eased and it becomes undeniable that none of them are going to be permanent for any sinister reason, conspiracy theorists aren't going to say that they were wrong. We'll start hearing how that Covid 19 was "a test run" and they were "seeing how compliant we are." etc.
Then in about 10 years when the next major global event rolls round, the cycle will repeat and conspiracy theorists will pretend that all these claims being made on this thread never happened.

The worst part of it is it's a collection of people repeatedly claiming every major event is 50 different conspiracies - eventually something is going to come along that's somewhat of a conspiracy and the conspiracy community are going to collectively lose it: "We were right all along", "we can never be discounted again" "conspiracies are now validated", etc

Calling it now.

seamus

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The worst part of it is it's a collection of people repeatedly claiming every major event is 50 different conspiracies - eventually something is going to come along that's somewhat of a conspiracy and the conspiracy community are going to collectively lose it: "We were right all along", "we can never be discounted again" "conspiracies are now validated", etc

Calling it now.

I don't know. If covid is anything to go by, they'll open their arms and embrace it.

We know there's a strong overlap between doomsday preppers and conspiracy theorists, especially in the U.S.

Yet it seems that as soon as a situation occurred that called for isolation and a big stock of supplies, they were the first people to say, "There's nothing happening, there's no pandemic, there's no reason to not walk out into the streets".

Dohnjoe

seamus wrote: »

I don't know. If covid is anything to go by, they'll open their arms and embrace it.

We know there's a strong overlap between doomsday preppers and conspiracy theorists, especially in the U.S.

Yet it seems that as soon as a situation occurred that called for isolation and a big stock of supplies, they were the first people to say, "There's nothing happening, there's no pandemic, there's no reason to not walk out into the streets".

I'd also add anti-vaxxers into that overlap.

On this forum they've generally been divided between

1. There's no pandemic, it's all been overhyped by the powers-that-be in order to "take control", "track us", etc

2. There is a pandemic which was caused by the powers-that-be in order to "take control", "track us", etc

It's essentially choose-your-own-adventure

silliussoddius

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I'd also add anti-vaxxers into that overlap.

On this forum they've generally been divided between

1. There's no pandemic, it's all been overhyped by the powers-that-be in order to "take control", "track us", etc

2. There is a pandemic which was caused by the powers-that-be in order to "take control", "track us", etc

It's essentially choose-your-own-adventure

With each individual conspiracy theorist a hero in their own story, the Q cult really turned this up to 11.

buzzerxx

People getting the
s h o t are like “I did my research”.
Me: “You are the research.” :pac:

Pinch Flat

buzzerxx wrote: »

People getting the
s h o t are like “I did my research”.
Me: “You are the research.” :pac:

You should mention that to the consultants, surgeons, doctors, nurses and other health specialists who got vaccinated at the hospital my wife works in. Give them all a chuckle.

PintOfView

King Mob wrote: »

Which is generally why conspiracy mongers stay away from pronouncements like that.
To make them marketable, you need to have a deadline to give them a sense of urgency and drama. If the deadline is just vague and open, it doesn't really hook people.
But giving them a deadline means that eventually, they'll be shown to be wrong.
An example of this is all the claims about Jade Helm a few years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories

Conspiracy mongers get a lot more play out of the boiling frog thing as it can stretch out indefinitely and everything they point to can be a dramatic step towards boiling point. You also don't need to have a deadline, you can always postpone it.
Like now, when restrictions are eased and it becomes undeniable that none of them are going to be permanent for any sinister reason, conspiracy theorists aren't going to say that they were wrong. We'll start hearing how that Covid 19 was "a test run" and they were "seeing how compliant we are." etc.
Then in about 10 years when the next major global event rolls round, the cycle will repeat and conspiracy theorists will pretend that all these claims being made on this thread never happened.

Good link, that Jade Helm military exercise from 2015 makes interesting reading. Some bits from that wikipedia page

"A survey of registered Republicans by Public Policy Polling in May 2015, found
that 32% thought that "the Government is trying to take over Texas", and
that half of all Tea Party supporters are concerned with an imminent Texas invasion.

Greg Capers, sheriff of San Jacinto County, published a letter in the Cleveland Advocate (of Cleveland, Texas),
in response to numerous phone calls from citizens, in which he described
"alternative news sources" that were spreading inaccurate information about the exercise,
and encouraged citizens to "utilize legitimate mainstream news sources" for those interested in accurate information."

and

"On April 28, Texas Governor Greg Abbott ordered the Texas State Guard to monitor the operation.
"During the training operation, it is important that Texans know [that] their safety, constitutional rights,
private property rights and civil liberties will not be infringed."[37][43]

On May 2, 2015, Texas senator Ted Cruz told the South Carolina Republican Party's annual convention that
he had "reached out to the Pentagon to inquire about this exercise.""

and

"Clint Watts and two others in the FBI began to notice Russian disinformation campaigns starting in April 2014.
Watts said that Russian-driven efforts to spread misinformation were involved with Jade Helm.
In 2017, Facebook shut down a page called "Heart of Texas" which was found to be associated
with a Russian company promoting disinformation, including promoting the Jade Helm conspiracy"

It's almost frightening the percentage of people that are gullible enough to swallow
these conspiracies, and who believe nonsense, and allow themselves to be led by charlatans.
What are the US Republican supporters like??? And even the Governor of Texas for God's sake??? Simply sad ...

buzzerxx

Pinch Flat wrote: »

You should mention that to the consultants, surgeons, doctors, nurses and other health specialists who got vaccinated at the hospital my wife works in. Give them all a chuckle.

I would say the same to the consultants, surgeons, doctors, nurses and other health specialists who got vaccinated, if they really did.

PintOfView

buzzerxx wrote: »

I would say the same to the consultants, surgeons, doctors, nurses and other health specialists who got vaccinated, if they really did.

Do you think it's possible the doctors and nurses, etc., are not vaccinated at all?
Do you think they're just trying to trick the rest of us into getting vaccinated?

[Deleted User]

Neil Clark's inside source was spot on: https://twitter.com/NeilClark66/status/1403410192289734663

Fighting Tao

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Neil Clark's inside source was spot on: https://twitter.com/NeilClark66/status/1403410192289734663

The dog on the street knew what would happen if another wave hit. How does that prove that measures are permanent?

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Neil Clark's inside source was spot on: https://twitter.com/NeilClark66/status/1403410192289734663

Are you claiming that this is therfore proof of a conspiracy then? If so then what is the conspiracy and why? What was their plan for July rather than June or August? Is there something significant about July that we are missing?

Or did someone just make a guess, much like the government roadmap was doing when published in February?

Dohnjoe

robinph wrote: »

Are you claiming that this is therfore proof of a conspiracy then? If so then what is the conspiracy and why? What was their plan for July rather than June or August? Is there something significant about July that we are missing?

Or did someone just make a guess, much like the government roadmap was doing when published in February?

Once again, countless online cranks making countless predictions. If one is vaguely right they are "hailed" in the conspiracy community. Idiotic, but that's literally how it works.

[Deleted User]

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Once again, countless online cranks making countless predictions. If one is vaguely right they are "hailed" in the conspiracy community. Idiotic, but that's literally how it works.

Not vaguely right. Was spot on. His inside source told him back in January that there would be no significant easing until July.

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not vaguely right. Was spot on. His inside source told him back in January that there would be no significant easing until July.

Why July?

What does this prove?

Dohnjoe

Gortanna wrote: »

Not vaguely right. Was spot on. His inside source told him back in January that there would be no significant easing until July.

He doesn't have any "inside source", it's all horse****, he just watches the news like anyone else, makes predictions and conspiracy theorists are bamboozled by it. Alex Jones made a living out of it.

Do you count all his wrong predictions or let me guess, those get ignored

And what's the conspiracy?