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The Irish protocol.

downcow

The protocol will be challenged next week in the british high courts.
I am interested in what you guys believe is an appropriate way forward if it is declared illegal, as I have a haunch it will.
Is it appropriate to continue down an illegal road or will it be time for a rethink?

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Dyr

Fionn1952 wrote: »

1) The protesters will primarily be disillusioned youths who barely have a notion what they're protesting about apart from on the most superficial level, and for whom going down for a ruck with those pesky Irish is the closest thing to a day out they'll have had in donkeys. There will be a handful of the usual suspects orchestrating things who'll keep their own hands clean while encouraging much.

The Loyal brethern can't come down here for a football match without battering innocent people, it will be the usual shower of neantherdals in milkmen outfits.

Might be good thing, if only to remind people in Ireland just what Catholics in the north have to put up with from these headbangers.

hometruths

downcow wrote: »

Seems we may be heading for regular loyalist protest parades in Dublin as the feeling is Roi are burying their head in the sand.
I guess better some street protests in Dublin than descending into more serious violence up here

The reason loyalists will protest in Dublin rather than London is because they know there would be no surer accelerant of a UI than a rabble of belligerent bigots banging their drums under the noses of the English.

At present few of the British voting public are aware the Northern Irish even exist, and fewer care. Unionism depends on maintaining that status quo.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bryson with his 'could's' again.

Bryson 'could' muster 100,000 like Paisley did, but he can't, try as he might.

Bryson is looking for attention like his predecessor Willie Frazer.

I think will more like be a few loyalist bands every Saturday. They can rotate around the 600+.
Less effort and keeps reminding Roi every week that they need to seek some compromise from Eu. After all they are members

downcow

PokeHerKing wrote: »

I remember the last time yous tried that, I'm sure you'll get the same welcome.

I think tbh that would be the desired outcome every Saturday afternoon

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bryson may be stupid enough to follow through on his attention seeking here. But I don't think he is that stupid.

The fact is moderate Unionism is not concerned enough about the Protocol to engage in potential violence. Bryson knows if he follows through that the 'protest' would be as pathetic as the ones in Belfast...teenagers encouraged to wreck their own areas essentially and fabricated threats from Poots.
It would qickly show that Unionism as a body is not overly concerned and has just taken yet another body blow to it's belief that the UK cares about them.
I deal with businesses in the north most days and I have yet to hear anyone complain about the Protocol. It's primarily belligerent bluster.

Very disciplined bands will go down like last time I. There will be no Belfast teenagers rioting cause they won’t be there

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I think will more like be a few loyalist bands every Saturday. They can rotate around the 600+.
Less effort and keeps reminding Roi every week that they need to seek some compromise from Eu. After all they are members

downcow wrote: »

I think tbh that would be the desired outcome every Saturday afternoon

If the Protocol is causing difficulty for trade, how do you frame an effective protest making it about loyalism?

Bonkers stuff.

There was an effective protest in Dublin today. Effective for a number of reasons, the main ones being,
1. The protest took place in a place where something could be done about the protestors complaints (Dublin can't make Boris care and be honest with you)
2. Those protesting were affected by what they were protesting about. (The Protocol affects trade. What issue that loyalist bands have can the Dublin government do something about? We can't make the rest of the UK care about you.

guy2231

downcow wrote: »

I think will more like be a few loyalist bands every Saturday. They can rotate around the 600+.
Less effort and keeps reminding Roi every week that they need to seek some compromise from Eu. After all they are members

You must be winding us up, Britain throws you under the bus for their own benefit and you protest against it in Dublin because we are a member of the EU, typical loyalism never questioning your Brit masters.

Nothing more than English fanboys.

Seth Brundle

downcow wrote: »

I think will more like be a few loyalist bands every Saturday. They can rotate around the 600+.
Less effort and keeps reminding Roi every week that they need to seek some compromise from Eu. After all they are members

It's farcical at the lengths that they'll seek to blame others and not those actually responsible.
What is the point of protesting in Dublin given that their grievance should be against London?
Do the Loyalists believe that the United Kingdom isn't soverign to the point that they can control their own laws and borders?
If they truly believe that Dublin/the EU is out to split the UK then why protest against them? Surely the loyalists should be looking at London to stand up and defend the "integrity" of the Kingdom?
To be honest, what you and the loyalists want is to simply throw a tantrum.
You all know the truth about the NIP and the border checks on the Irish Sea- you've been told it often enough. You know it wasn't the EU side that created the situation.
You know all this but also know full well that London will very quickly cut the cord if the loyalists were to start making threats of violence and protests against Downing St.

FrancieBrady

Just listened to Jamie...who is talking about 'destabilising 'mass' protests, downcow, not a couple of Loyalist bands.

Frankly, the lad is unhinged IMO. He has as much in common with the ordinary Unionist as they have with Boris Johnson tbh.

If this is a 'leader, quite frankly, Unionism is doomed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVzjTLhYwFM

Junkyard Tom

From being led by ship-building and linen-manufacturing industrialists to being led by a bonfire-building, narcoterrorist shmoozing, man-babies.

I'd imagine the Unionists of the 1920's would be utterly ashamed at the state of contemporary Unionism. Moderate pro-UK residents in the north must be completely mortified by the latest episode in the embarrassing decline of Irish unionism.

PCeeeee

downcow wrote: »

Very disciplined bands will go down like last time I. There will be no Belfast teenagers rioting cause they won’t be there

Can't see them being let. Especially if the first goes badly.

VinLieger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just listened to Jamie...who is talking about 'destabilising 'mass' protests, downcow, not a couple of Loyalist bands.

Frankly, the lad is unhinged IMO. He has as much in common with the ordinary Unionist as they have with Boris Johnson tbh.

If this is a 'leader, quite frankly, Unionism is doomed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVzjTLhYwFM

Really enjoyed how he had to keep reassuring himself that it was logical to protest in dublin......

Junkyard Tom

The howls and shrieking from the usual gang when I said unionist culture would need to be contained in a United Ireland, looks like we're going to have start containing it before then.

PokeHerKing

downcow wrote: »

I think tbh that would be the desired outcome every Saturday afternoon

If it happens once that'll be the last time the buses will make it past Dundalk. I'm actually getting a good laugh at how pathetic you and your lot are :pac:

downcow

PokeHerKing wrote: »

If it happens once that'll be the last time the buses will make it past Dundalk. I'm actually getting a good laugh at how pathetic you and your lot are :pac:

Who would be stopping the buses on the m1? The Ra?

PCeeeee

downcow wrote: »

Who would be stopping the buses on the m2? The Ra?

Musicians maybe?

Normal One

downcow wrote: »

Who would be stopping the buses on the m1? The Ra?

Their own Tennants-filled bladders

FrancieBrady

Normal One wrote: »

Their own Tennants-filled bladders

'Stop the bus, we want a wee wee country back'.

briany

Taking a protest to Dublin is a good tactic if you're a Loyalist header like Jamie Bryson or Willie Frazer. They want to create polarisation and they want to radicalise moderate Unionists and moderate Nationalists. This is really a pretty old trick, and it's been effective throughout history. As of now, it's been fairly well dealt with just by ignoring it and recognising it for what it is. Any protest that comes to Dublin should be given a heavy Gardai protection in order to starve it of its very aim, which is to goad the locals into some sort of aggro.

guy2231

briany wrote: »

Taking a protest to Dublin is a good tactic if you're a Loyalist header like Jamie Bryson or Willie Frazer. They want to create polarisation and they want to radicalise moderate Unionists and moderate Nationalists. This is really a pretty old trick, and it's been effective throughout history. As of now, it's been fairly well dealt with just by ignoring it and recognising it for what it is. Any protest that comes to Dublin should be given a heavy Gardai protection in order to starve it of its very aim, which is to goad the locals into some sort of aggro.

I don't think they want radicalise nationalists to be honest, doubt they would want that at all.

downcow

briany wrote: »

Taking a protest to Dublin is a good tactic if you're a Loyalist header like Jamie Bryson or Willie Frazer. They want to create polarisation and they want to radicalise moderate Unionists and moderate Nationalists. This is really a pretty old trick, and it's been effective throughout history. As of now, it's been fairly well dealt with just by ignoring it and recognising it for what it is. Any protest that comes to Dublin should be given a heavy Gardai protection in order to starve it of its very aim, which is to goad the locals into some sort of aggro.

I don’t disagree with you. I think most unionists would rather watch republicans rioting in Dublin like during love Ulster than watch young loyalists rioting in Belfast.
It would also have more impact on Roi

FrancieBrady

briany wrote: »

Taking a protest to Dublin is a good tactic if you're a Loyalist header like Jamie Bryson or Willie Frazer. They want to create polarisation and they want to radicalise moderate Unionists and moderate Nationalists. This is really a pretty old trick, and it's been effective throughout history. As of now, it's been fairly well dealt with just by ignoring it and recognising it for what it is. Any protest that comes to Dublin should be given a heavy Gardai protection in order to starve it of its very aim, which is to goad the locals into some sort of aggro.

Letting it be known that one of those suspected of bombing Dublin image would be displayed at the Love Ulster march was the tactic to goad the last time.

downcow

Seems U.K. will extend the grace period at the end of June.

Junkyard Tom

briany wrote: »

They want to create polarisation

This is the absolute worst tactic they could employ because they are depending on non PUL voters for the continuance of their statelet.

The best way unionists could preserve UK jurisdiction in Ireland is for every single one of them to vote Alliance, embrace their Irishness, and make the northeast as indistinguishable from the rest of the country as possible.

Will they? No chance. Unionism can't help itself because its nature is domination and supremacy.

bilbot79

That kind of polarisation and radicalization mentioned is the main tactic of Islamic State but it won't work in the North. We've been through too much and there is a maturity in the population now that wouldn't have been there just as the Troubles started.

There are enough people who will turn around and say 'F*** off with your unionist/republican claptrap and get a life'

briany

guy2231 wrote: »

I don't think they want radicalise nationalists to be honest, doubt they would want that at all.

Oh, I think they very much want it because it would mean an enemy to fight and to be afraid of. Polarisation is the name of the game. We can look at the unrest in Belfast as moronic, which it was, but have to be on guard for an attempt to perniciously slide NI back to the bad old days through increasingly larger displays of violence.

guy2231

bilbot79 wrote: »

That kind of polarisation and radicalization mentioned is the main tactic of Islamic State but it won't work in the North. We've been through too much and there is a maturity in the population now that wouldn't have been there just as the Troubles started.

There are enough people who will turn around and say 'F*** off with your unionist/republican claptrap and get a life'

Yes tell the republicans to get a life

Definition of a republican: Someone who wishes to see a 32 county Irish state free from British rule.

These republicans sure do need to get a life

bilbot79

guy2231 wrote: »

Yes tell the republicans to get a life

Definition of a republican: Someone who wishes to see a 32 county Irish state free from British rule.

These republicans sure do need to get a life

There's more to being a staunch republican than wanting a united Ireland. It can involve a lot of the kind of hatred and bitterness that instills fear and loathing in unionists, which in turn instills fear and loathing in more Irish people etc etc.

I would like a united Ireland but a Northern Ireland that is at peace with itself and others is a vastly higher priority and if there is no UI in my lifetime or my children's, so what. Who cares.

As for the protocol. It should stay but the likes of George Osborne and David McWilliams should stop stoking up this idea of an inevitable UI because it's not inevitable. In my view remaining as is would be more attractive to most Northern Irish people were it not for the hatred and fear of the other sides victory.

There will be no border poll until such a thing is not divisive. When that time comes there will be a greater middle ground made up of people like me whose borders go as far as their family and friends and no further. Patriotism and sect have brought nothing but misery on NI at the expense of real progress. It's time to get a life and accept that those pesky folks over the wall aren't going anywhere and we just have to live together

Junkyard Tom

bilbot79 wrote: »

There will be no border poll until such a thing is not divisive.

The border literally divided our country and it is still, in the 21st Century, the cause of all these problems for the people of Ireland, because the DUP saw an opportunity to harden it.

How great it would be for us all if we didn't have to care too much about Brexit at all. The beginning point of ending these problems is removing that border once and for all.

bilbot79

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The border literally divided our country and it is still, in the 21st Century, the cause of all these problems for the people of Ireland, because the DUP saw an opportunity to harden it.

How great it would be for us all if we didn't have to care too much about Brexit at all. The beginning point of ending these problems is removing that border once and for all.

I agree the DUP tried to have their cake and eat it. It was a bad gamble for them and caused everyone a world of problems

How great would it be (for those of Irish ethnicity) if we removed that border once and for all.

People have to stop thinking only about their own perspective. It's hard I know but you've got to let unionists be British.

They aren't even a proper minority yet and you're talking about pulling the rug from under them. It's different if the demographic supports it but right now there is no reason to be removing any borders