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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Continued on from previous threads. Title can be decided if we get better suggestions than the placeholder. We may run a poll.

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mfceiling

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Mccloskey has had numerous big stage days to impress and never taken any.

Yeah those 4 Ireland caps would tell you loads.

Richie_Rich89

I'd be interested to see a bit more of Farrell at inside centre. He's massive and physical, and a good passer, but his lack of an outside break is a bit limiting at 13. I think Smith had the right idea, playing him at 12 in a few games, although I can't remember offhand which ones.

Former Former Former

mfceiling wrote: »

Yeah those 4 Ireland caps would tell you loads.

Four caps in five and a half years tells you a fair bit though.

I presume the comment was in relation to big days for Ulster and I think it's fair enough tbh.

McCloskey deserves to have more than 4 caps IMO, but I'm struggling to see how barreling over a few hapless American guys will change Farrell's mind about him. I would have left him out and brought in Hume. TBH it's hard to imagine how McCloskey would be psyching himself up for this after so many call-ups with no end product.

CMcsporty

Best thing about the squad is no Sexton or Earls!
Next best is having Joey Carbery and Baloucoune in an Irish squad.
I hope they starts both games.

Clegg

Murray Kinsella has posted some quotes from Andy Farrell regarding the squad selection. Cooney, Eric O'Sullivan, Lowe, Ross Byrne and Thornbury all missed out due to injury.

aloooof

sprucemoose wrote: »

(Farrell's) a much better 3rd choice option than Aki for me and he offers an increased physicality over all of them

I'd disagree here. I think Aki had a better performance against England than we've seen from Farrell for Ireland, for example. Some of his wide passing that day was excellent too, which we hadn't really seen too much of from him before.

Aki's tackle technique is an issue tho, it's something he'll have to be more careful with in the future, and Andy seems to be a fan of Chris.

sprucemoose

aloooof wrote: »

I'd disagree here. I think Aki had a better performance against England than we've seen from Farrell for Ireland, for example. Some of his wide passing that day was excellent too, which we hadn't really seen too much of from him before.

have to disagree with your disagreement, thought we looked incredibly one-dimensional and lacking width against england despite the improvements elsewhere. it was one of aki's better games definitely, but i wouldn't say it wouldve made a difference whether it was aki/farrell/ringrose with RH in the centre

mfceiling

Former Former Former wrote: »

Four caps in five and a half years tells you a fair bit though.

I presume the comment was in relation to big days for Ulster and I think it's fair enough tbh.

McCloskey deserves to have more than 4 caps IMO, but I'm struggling to see how barreling over a few hapless American guys will change Farrell's mind about him. I would have left him out and brought in Hume. TBH it's hard to imagine how McCloskey would be psyching himself up for this after so many call-ups with no end product.

That's a fair point.

irelandrover

I'm surprised Haley hasnt made the squad. He's had a great year with Munster.

TomsOnTheRoof

Haley is someone who can feel hard done by. He's had a great year. Would have said the same for Thornbury but he's injured.

El_Duderino 09

irelandrover wrote: »

I'm surprised Haley hasnt made the squad. He's had a great year with Munster.

Seems a bit like they sold him a dummy by including him in the Ireland training squad when he was approached by Glasgow, and now dropping him when it might have been given a chance.

Edit, am I misremembering that? Was he included in the training squad

Edit. I was talking about Ben Healy not Mike Haley.

phog

Clegg wrote: »

Murray Kinsella has posted some quotes from Andy Farrell regarding the squad selection. Cooney, Eric O'Sullivan, Lowe, Ross Byrne and Thornbury all missed out due to injury.

He is also supposed to have said his outhalfs were still going to be the 3 he picked so Byrne was losing out injury or no injury.

Former Former Former

irelandrover wrote: »

I'm surprised Haley hasnt made the squad. He's had a great year with Munster.

It's a zero sum game though. You've already got Keenan, Addison and Larmour. One of them would have to miss out to facilitate Haley.

Edit: plus Stockdale and Conway who can do a job there too

TomsOnTheRoof

Former Former Former wrote: »

It's a zero sum game though. You've already got Keenan, Addison and Larmour. One of them would have to miss out to facilitate Haley.

Edit: plus Stockdale and Conway who can do a job there too

On form I'd have Haley ahead of Conway, Addison and Larmour.

lawrencesummers

mfceiling wrote: »

Yeah those 4 Ireland caps would tell you loads.

Has he ever shone in a European game?

Richie_Rich89

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Has he ever shone in a European game?

He was excellent in the quarter-final against Leinster a few years ago.

Richie_Rich89

Thomas Ahern is back available, isn't he? I'd like to have seen him in there, with one eye on the rugby union World Cup in France in two years' time.

irelandrover

Former Former Former wrote: »

It's a zero sum game though. You've already got Keenan, Addison and Larmour. One of them would have to miss out to facilitate Haley.

Edit: plus Stockdale and Conway who can do a job there too

I know, i actually think he is more deserving of a place than conway, addison and stockdale this year based on form. But i undertand they all offer more versatility.

i just think he's been one of Munsters better players this year and i thought he would be in teh squad.

TRC10

Pretty strange squad.

Why have such a huge squad for 2 home games? He's basically picked everyone not on the Lions tour.

Why are guys like Dooley and Molony there? They're in their late 20s and aren't European Cup standard, so why are they in an international squad. It would be much more productive to invest in younger players. I'd have had Treadwell or Thornbury or even Kleyn there over Molony.

I don't understand Farrell's love for Dave Heffernan.

John Ryan...........just, why?

Conway should be nowhere near that squad on current form.

I don't get the Shane Daly hype, he's never stood out for me in any Munster game I've seen, at least done nothing to show he's international class

I don't see the point in investing in Addison as he's 29 and injured 90% of the time.

Good to see Timoney there, one of the most underrated players in Ireland IMO.

Although I'm delighted Healy, Sexton and Earls have been left out. I thought for a while we might actually see a 36 year old out half wheeled out against the USA.

Dubinusa

Odd selection to be sure. I was gobsmacked when I saw Dooley in the squad! But, who knows? Molony is a fringe type player who would be a good shout off the bench.
Hume was one lad I was hoping to see. I think he will be in the mix soon enough. Farrell cannot be called conservative, he could cap potentially 10 new players. Nick Timoney is vastly under rated! He won't be a regular international, but he was superb this year.
Any way for Japan
Dooley
Herring
Bealham
Dillane
Ryan
POM
Vdf
Doris
JGP
Carberry
Stockdale
Daly
Ringrose
Larmour
Keenan

Kelleher
Byrne
Ryan
Baird
Coombes
Blade
HB
Daly

Bazzo

I used to actually respond to posts about why Bundee Aki was better than random centre X in the Ireland thread, then I stopped bothering my hole when it was getting very repetitive, now I think I'll just post this:

Lost Ormond

TRC10 wrote: »

Pretty strange squad.

Why have such a huge squad for 2 home games? He's basically picked everyone not on the Lions tour.

Why are guys like Dooley and Molony there? They're in their late 20s and aren't European Cup standard, so why are they in an international squad. It would be much more productive to invest in younger players. I'd have had Treadwell or Thornbury or even Kleyn there over Molony.

I don't understand Farrell's love for Dave Heffernan.

John Ryan...........just, why?

Conway should be nowhere near that squad on current form.

I don't get the Shane Daly hype, he's never stood out for me in any Munster game I've seen, at least done nothing to show he's international class

I don't see the point in investing in Addison as he's 29 and injured 90% of the time.

Good to see Timoney there, one of the most underrated players in Ireland IMO.

Although I'm delighted Healy, Sexton and Earls have been left out. I thought for a while we might actually see a 36 year old out half wheeled out against the USA.

Picking a bigger squad so he and other coaches can get better look at some players i guess.
I think Dooley is european standard and would be that all time if playing elsewhere and not behind Healy....
If going on age Treadwell/Thornbery are older/about same age as Molony so not exactly right options if going on about picking younger options

Dubinusa wrote: »

Odd selection to be sure. I was gobsmacked when I saw Dooley in the squad! But, who knows? Molony is a fringe type player who would be a good shout off the bench.
Hume was one lad I was hoping to see. I think he will be in the mix soon enough. Farrell cannot be called conservative, he could cap potentially 10 new players. Nick Timoney is vastly under rated! He won't be a regular international, but he was superb this year.
Any way for Japan
Dooley
Herring
Bealham
Dillane
Ryan
POM
Vdf
Doris
JGP
Carberry
Stockdale
Daly
Ringrose
Larmour
Keenan

Kelleher
Byrne
Ryan
Baird
Coombes
Blade
HB
Daly

You are gobsmacked by Dooley but then pick him to start the games....

Who instead of him would you have picked then?

sprucemoose

Bazzo wrote: »

I used to actually respond to posts about why Bundee Aki was better than random centre X in the Ireland thread, then I stopped bothering my hole when it was getting very repetitive, now I think I'll just post this:

tom court was a lion too........

TRC10

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Picking a bigger squad so he and other coaches can get better look at some players i guess.
I think Dooley is european standard and would be that all time if playing elsewhere and not behind Healy....
If going on age Treadwell/Thornbery are older/about same age as Molony so not exactly right options if going on about picking younger options

Dooley has been behind Ed Byrne at Leinster for the last 3 years. I'm sorry but he's nowhere near Ireland standard. Having Reid or Milne there as 3rd choice would be far more productive with a view to 2 years down the line.

Regarding Molony, my point was that Treadwell, Thornbury (who is injured), and Kleyn, are all in the same age bracket and are better players.

I also think Wycherley at 6'4 is way to small too be an international lock.

TheG0AT

sprucemoose wrote: »

tom court was a lion too........

Tom Court was drafted in as a replacement, who was in the vicinity of the tour, and they didn't want to fly someone half way across the world for a glorified friendly in mid week.

Same happened with a scottish scrum half who was covering a lions tour and when couple of scrum halves got injured he was asked if he hd bpoots and could join the squad. Mike Blair i believe.

Comparing Tom Court's Lions experience to Bundi Aki, who was selected in the initial squad for this tour only highlights your own ignorance and stupidity.

Yeah_Right

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I'd be interested to see a bit more of Farrell at inside centre. He's massive and physical, and a good passer, but his lack of an outside break is a bit limiting at 13. I think Smith had the right idea, playing him at 12 in a few games, although I can't remember offhand which ones.

Sorry Dickie_Dick89 who is Smith? Was he one Farrell's coaches in France?

sydthebeat

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

On form I'd have Haley ahead of Conway, Addison and Larmour.

Ahead of Conway and Addison at 15, yes I agree.

Including larmour in with those three though makes no sense whatsoever.

TRC10

If there was a game against England tomorrow, what 2nd rock pairing would you prefer..

Molony and Wycherley

or Treadwell and Kleyn

sprucemoose

TheG0AT wrote: »

Tom Court was drafted in as a replacement, who was in the vicinity of the tour, and they didn't want to fly someone half way across the world for a glorified friendly in mid week.

Same happened with a scottish scrum half who was covering a lions tour and when couple of scrum halves got injured he was asked if he hd bpoots and could join the squad. Mike Blair i believe.

Comparing Tom Court's Lions experience to Bundi Aki, who was selected in the initial squad for this tour only highlights your own ignorance and stupidity.

first of all......relax

my point (which had more than a bit of sarcasm) was that being a lion isnt necessarily a guarantee of quality (it usually is in fairness, but i was just making a humorous point in reply to your, imo anyway, over-zealous defence of Aki). either way, aki is probably third choice for ireland when all options are fit and in decent form, for me farrell should be ahead of him in the pecking order but AF doesnt tend to agree and thats what matters i suppose

and it was andy nicol that was called up in 2001 for the final test as he was in australia at the time as part of a supporters tour. they tried ronan o gara briefly in training at 9 as an alternative but he was brought onto the bench anyway as neil jenkins was injured and ruled out. you may be getting confused with 2009 when blair was added to the squad before the tour started due to tomas o leary breaking his ankle and being ruled out.

sorry if all that correct info further highlights my ignorance and stupidity!

TomsOnTheRoof

sydthebeat wrote: »

Ahead of Conway and Addison at 15, yes I agree.

Including larmour in with those three though makes no sense whatsoever.

If Larmour is purely seen as a winger then fair enough. The last couple of tests would suggest this. However, Addison has struggled massively with his fitness over the past few seasons and it wouldn't surprise me to see Larmour cover 15 or even start there. I don't think Farrell knows who his backup for Keenan is and I'd hazard a guess that Larmour is still viewed as a viable option there. If that's the case then I think Haley can feel hard done by. Having said that if he's purely viewed as a winger then the selection is fair enough.