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The Tipperary GAA Discussion Thread

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Lost Ormond

Pogue eile wrote: »

Age of who? come on give me the stats there.

Paudie, Brendan Maher, Bubbles, Noel McGrath all been in set up for a decade. 50+ games for many of them in championship
All around 32/33...

Pogue eile

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Paudie, Brendan Maher, Bubbles, Noel McGrath all been in set up for a decade. 50+ games for many of them in championship
All around 32/33...

Noel Mcgrath is 30, Bubbles is 29..........

[Deleted User]

Pogue eile wrote: »

So all the same age or younger than Joe Canning and Tj Reid, both widly acknowledged as two of the best players in the game.

How is 30 considered old? Galway have 5 of their first choice 15 over 30 and I have not once heard anyone ever refer to them as old. One of Ger Loughanes greatest achievements was convincing people that Tipp were old - the same team won an AI since he started that nonesene.

Bubbles is 29, so thats just silly!

Noel, Brendan, Paudie and Seamie are four of the greatest hurlers to have ever donned the blue and gold and would walk on to every single team in the country bar none.

Dont think anyone is disputing your last point. Good point re TJ Reid and Joe Canning too. The fact stands though that we have a group of players that are over the 30 and we will have to start planning for life without them because they are going to walk away sooner rather than later. These are amateur athletes who will begin have other plans and priorities in life. Let Galway worry about Galway.

Lost Ormond

Pogue eile wrote: »

Noel Mcgrath is 30, Bubbles is 29..........

Ok but Noel McGrath may be 30 but has 55 championship appearances. has a lot of miles through club success with Loughmore as well going into Munster

I am not disputing that these players are some of the best to ever play for tipp and would make pretty much every side in the country ...... but theyre all 30 year olds or more and whove been central to senior set up since last year or two playing under 21s. Theyve more than a decade playing at this level and it will show .....

formerlyET

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Ok but Noel McGrath may be 30 but has 55 championship appearances. has a lot of miles through club success with Loughmore as well going into Munster

I am not disputing that these players are some of the best to ever play for tipp and would make pretty much every side in the country ...... but theyre all 30 year olds or more and whove been central to senior set up since last year or two playing under 21s. Theyve more than a decade playing at this level and it will show .....

Noel McGrath scored 1-2...

And I know Bubbles tried to get up and down the pitch, but there's only so much you can do from Killenaule.

Pogue eile

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Ok but Noel McGrath may be 30 but has 55 championship appearances. has a lot of miles through club success with Loughmore as well going into Munster

I am not disputing that these players are some of the best to ever play for tipp and would make pretty much every side in the country ...... but theyre all 30 year olds or more and whove been central to senior set up since last year or two playing under 21s. Theyve more than a decade playing at this level and it will show .....

When did 30 become too old? How many games have Joe canning and TJ Reid played?

Noel McGrath is a terrible example anyway, Noel didnt have this supposed magic ingredient of pace even when he was 19. But he has one of the finest hurling brains in the game, exemplary vision and bags of skill - none of those diminish just becasue you are 30.

formerlyET

Our problems stemmed from a lack of tactical nous in midfield, the way we were set up, and ball retention up front. Nothing to do with pace.

At one stage Callanan chased back over a hundred yards - no problem with the legs there - a man trying to get his fitness up...

In fact, what led to the exposed areas was where we were greenest and not older.

And I could see one player in particular getting a hard time at the water break who is starting out rather than getting long in the tooth.

FintanMcluskey

Pogue eile wrote: »

Noel, Brendan, Paudie and Seamie are four of the greatest hurlers to have ever donned the blue and gold and would walk on to every single team in the country bar none.

Those 4 aren’t walking onto Limericks starting lineup

Even questionable for Galway’s

Tipp 77

We have a lack of pace in the backline but the main problem to me today was the forwards didn't work collectively hard enough to stop Waterford carrying it out at will.Their backs weren't tracked well enough coming out and that completely opened us up. The Waterford forwards put an awful lot more pressure on us and won turnovers and forced frees for over carrying and stopped the backs putting quality ball in. If we play them in the Munster semi final if the workrate isn't there up front we will have the same problem

Pogue eile

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Those 4 aren’t walking onto Limericks starting lineup

Even questionable for Galway’s

Well we will have to agree to disagree, its not someting that obviously we will ever know.

Galway are older than Tipp and not a hope in hell they have 15 better players than those four.

Mantis Toboggan

I'd have no doubt that Sheedy took the league seriously, his team selections would suggest this. 5 games played and 2 wins (1 of them Westmeath) and we saved our worst performance until last. It would have to be somewhat concerning.

What's been really disappointing over the last few years is very few young players making the step up for whatever reason. We've had successful underage teams. Sheedy seems very reluctant to give these guys a chance. Sometimes you just need to give youngsters the opportunity and back them. Kiely is playing a lad doing his leaving cert and he looks the part already and they're reigning champions. We're not really building anything for the future, possibly Sheedy's last year?

It will be a different game in few weeks if we play them in the championship but we'll need to be much better setup and a proper plan to deal with their running game.

formerlyET

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I'd have no doubt that Sheedy took the league seriously, his team selections would suggest this. 5 games played and 2 wins (1 of them Westmeath) and we saved our worst performance until last. It would have to be somewhat concerning.

What's been really disappointing over the last few years is very few young players making the step up for whatever reason. We've had successful underage teams. Sheedy seems very reluctant to give these guys a chance. Sometimes you just need to give youngsters the opportunity and back them. Kiely is playing a lad doing his leaving cert and he looks the part already and they're reigning champions. We're not really building anything for the future, possibly Sheedy's last year?

It will be a different game in few weeks if we play them in the championship but we'll need to be much better setup and a proper plan to deal with their running game.

Just last week you posted this:

07-06-2021, 17:55 #9942
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I don't think we'll see a full strength side for Waterford on Sunday. Few players could do with a rest.

Paidie is made for full back. Any side playing 2 inside forwards I'd imagine he'll become a sweeper. We're developing a decent squad with plenty of depth. Subs well capable of making a difference.
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formerlyET

Mantis Toboggan

formerlyET wrote: »

Just last week you posted this:

07-06-2021, 17:55 #9942
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I don't think we'll see a full strength side for Waterford on Sunday. Few players could do with a rest.

Paidie is made for full back. Any side playing 2 inside forwards I'd imagine he'll become a sweeper. We're developing a decent squad with plenty of depth. Subs well capable of making a difference.
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formerlyET

And?

formerlyET

This last week:
We're developing a decent squad with plenty of depth. Subs well capable of making a difference.

And this today:
What's been really disappointing over the last few years is very few young players making the step up for whatever reason. We've had successful underage teams. Sheedy seems very reluctant to give these guys a chance. Sometimes you just need to give youngsters the opportunity and back them. Kiely is playing a lad doing his leaving cert and he looks the part already and they're reigning champions. We're not really building anything for the future, possibly Sheedy's last year?

And?

Mantis Toboggan

formerlyET wrote: »

This last week:
We're developing a decent squad with plenty of depth. Subs well capable of making a difference.

And this today:
What's been really disappointing over the last few years is very few young players making the step up for whatever reason. We've had successful underage teams. Sheedy seems very reluctant to give these guys a chance. Sometimes you just need to give youngsters the opportunity and back them. Kiely is playing a lad doing his leaving cert and he looks the part already and they're reigning champions. We're not really building anything for the future, possibly Sheedy's last year?

And?

Obviously you've alot of time on your hands for a Sunday evening to be going through people's post history. Fortunately I've better things to be doing.

If you want to debate my posts then I'm happy to listen to your opinion. So, do you not agree that we have a decent squad? Also do you think the young players coming through have flourished and developed in the 3 years under Sheedy?

formerlyET

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Obviously you've alot of time on your hands for a Sunday evening to be going through people's post history. Fortunately I've better things to be doing.

If you want to debate my posts then I'm happy to listen to your opinion. So, do you not agree that we have a decent squad? Also do you think the young players coming through have flourished and developed in the 3 years under Sheedy?

My point is, both your points contradict each other. In the space of a week we went from a squad with depth to not developing young guys.

It's up to the young lads to produce when called upon. They did when called on in 2019. So, up to them to keep going and produce the goods - only issue is there's quality with more experience ahead of them. I don't think Tipp get too excited about the league. I think we'll go close this year, if not win it. Have as much a chance as anyone.

Look at your post here from 2019. A good omen?
Also you were worried about pace when we went play cork down in cork in 2019.

16-03-2019, 19:23 #7129
Mantis Toboggan
Been a really disappointing league truth be told. 6 games 4 defeats and we've arguably put out our strongest team in each game. Eamonn O'Shea will have to work miracles in May.

1373

Pogue eile wrote: »

So all the same age or younger than Joe Canning and Tj Reid, both widly acknowledged as two of the best players in the game.

How is 30 considered old? Galway have 5 of their first choice 15 over 30 and I have not once heard anyone ever refer to them as old. One of Ger Loughanes greatest achievements was convincing people that Tipp were old - the same team won an AI since he started that nonesene.

Bubbles is 29, so thats just silly!

Noel, Brendan, Paudie and Seamie are four of the greatest hurlers to have ever donned the blue and gold and would walk on to every single team in the country bar none.

Maybe or maybe not, but there’s several players on the Tipp match day 20 that would not trouble club teams , never mind inter county teams

Lost Ormond

formerlyET wrote: »

My point is, both your points contradict each other. In the space of a week we went from a squad with depth to not developing young guys.

It's up to the young lads to produce when called upon. They did when called on in 2019. So, up to them to keep going and produce the goods - only issue is there's quality with more experience ahead of them. I don't think Tipp get too excited about the league. I think we'll go close this year, if not win it. Have as much a chance as anyone.

Look at your post here from 2019. A good omen?
Also you were worried about pace when we went play cork down in cork in 2019.

16-03-2019, 19:23 #7129
Mantis Toboggan
Been a really disappointing league truth be told. 6 games 4 defeats and we've arguably put out our strongest team in each game. Eamonn O'Shea will have to work miracles in May.

Would you not quote the posts using the

tags,,,
might be easier to read then.

1373 wrote: »

Maybe or maybe not, but there’s several players on the Tipp match day 20 that would not trouble club teams , never mind inter county teams

Ah thats not really true. its not that bad!!

Pogue eile

1373 wrote: »

Maybe or maybe not, but there’s several players on the Tipp match day 20 that would not trouble club teams , never mind inter county teams

See if you are going to talk pure and utter tripe its very hard to take anything you say serioulsly.

A match day 20? Not really sure what that is to be honest, but anyway can you please name the players in the Tipp panel who would 'not trouble club teams' ??

Ompala

Haven't seen any of the game (I know, a sin!) so can only go by match reports.
Seemed it was nip and tuck until the 3rd quarter, then we Waterford took over and that was the winning of it, we were playing catch up after that.
Not a terrible position to be in coming into Championship with items to work on (every team has them) but I'll have to watch the game before commenting fully.
As a matter of interest, anyone know what our wide count was today?

formerlyET

Ompala wrote: »

Haven't seen any of the game (I know, a sin!) so can only go by match reports.
Seemed it was nip and tuck until the 3rd quarter, then we Waterford took over and that was the winning of it, we were playing catch up after that.
Not a terrible position to be in coming into Championship with items to work on (every team has them) but I'll have to watch the game before commenting fully.
As a matter of interest, anyone know what our wide count was today?

Don't know the exact wide tally - but we had less wides. We were poor in between the two 65s that's for sure. Well, beat in the middle third.

Waterford dropped Peter Hogan back deep.

Ompala

formerlyET wrote: »

Don't know the exact wide tally - but we had less wides. We were poor in between the two 65s that's for sure. Well, beat in the middle third.

Waterford dropped Peter Hogan back deep.

Never seen Peter Hogan play that way before, but open to correction if he has for either Ballygunner or Waterford. Plenty to ponder for the half back line as it is probably set that way for championship so be concerning if they were massively overrun (but if you are losing in the other 2 lines, that one is obviously going to suffer)

From 8- 12 is still prone to tinkering. We've been warned what to expect in 3 weeks time, irrespective of who wins between Clare and Waterford as theyboth seem to play the same way.

1373

Pogue eile wrote: »

See if you are going to talk pure and utter tripe its very hard to take anything you say serioulsly.

A match day 20? Not really sure what that is to be honest, but anyway can you please name the players in the Tipp panel who would 'not trouble club teams' ??

Match day 20 would obviously be the twenty or so players that Tipp use most days out . And no , I won’t name players , but I stand by what I say because I’ve seen most of them play club and inter county.

Pogue eile

Ompala wrote: »

Haven't seen any of the game (I know, a sin!) so can only go by match reports.
Seemed it was nip and tuck until the 3rd quarter, then we Waterford took over and that was the winning of it, we were playing catch up after that.
Not a terrible position to be in coming into Championship with items to work on (every team has them) but I'll have to watch the game before commenting fully.
As a matter of interest, anyone know what our wide count was today?

6 wides in total, 2 in the first half and four in the second.

Much improved in that regard.

formerlyET

Bubbles did a lot of running after the game with Cairbre Ó Cairealláin - so, he must be coming right.

Ompala

Pogue eile wrote: »

6 wides in total, 2 in the first half and four in the second.

Much improved in that regard.

Thats something encouraging from the game so.
Sunday Game didn't give much coverage to it last night, but from watching the highlights one of Waterfords goals could have been avoided. Good discussion given here at around the 28:25 mark on OurGame
https://youtu.be/JsuhSMhSX6A
Did mention a lack of back tracking and delivery of the ball into forwards as being particularly poor from Tipp.

Pogue eile

Ompala wrote: »

Thats something encouraging from the game so.
Sunday Game didn't give much coverage to it last night, but from watching the highlights one of Waterfords goals could have been avoided. Good discussion given here at around the 28:25 mark on OurGame
https://youtu.be/JsuhSMhSX6A
Did mention a lack of back tracking and delivery of the ball into forwards as being particularly poor from Tipp.

To be fair Waterford could have scored 5 or 6 goals and we could have had no complaints.

Funnily enough I actually thought the backs did reasonably well considering the pressure they were under - we were totally out of the game from 8-12 with none of them tracking the runners.

Barret was nearly the worst of the backs which is very surprising but he did get a nasty bang to the head - not sure why he came back on considering he has played every second of the league.

I put up my preferred 15 a week or so ago but after watching Sunday I think I would definitely make a few changes - a mid field of Flynn and Cadell is definitely too open - either Dan Mc in place of Cadell or Willie Conners in as a third midfielder would be my current thinking. Maybe if Brian O'Meara is back in contention then Brendan Maher could move to MF.

Plenty of food for thought for Liam and co after Sunday but also a good lesson learned - I thought it was telling that I have never seen him an calm on a sideline, especially in defeat, he never moved a muscle which tells its own story.

Joe_ Public

I think supply to forwards and tracking runners are the two key points to focus on, much more pertinent than the repeated focus on pace or age. Not tracking runners is what almost killed us in the 2019 sf, we could definitely be vulnerable to teams playing that style if not sufficiently set up to counter it. Some of that depends on supply too, the poorer it is, the more susceptible we are to counters where our midfield and backs get swamped and then blamed for lack of pace!

Also of the view we might need either Dan or Brendan in the middle. I'd probably opt for Bren on the basis i think Dan's qualities might be more urgently required on the wing. We could do with at least one of the younger lads taking a leap forward this summer and making a statement, for sure.

Pogue eile

Pogue eile wrote: »

Today was a better day for Liam Sheedy than it was for Liam Cahill when you consider Austin Gleeson having to leave the field injured two weeks before they face Clare in the championship.

And it has now been confirmed that Prunty and Fives are out for the Clare game and Gleeson is a serious doubt.

Bigger picture people!!

Ompala

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I think supply to forwards and tracking runners are the two key points to focus on, much more pertinent than the repeated focus on pace or age. Not tracking runners is what almost killed us in the 2019 sf, we could definitely be vulnerable to teams playing that style if not sufficiently set up to counter it. Some of that depends on supply too, the poorer it is, the more susceptible we are to counters where our midfield and backs get swamped and then blamed for lack of pace!

Also of the view we might need either Dan or Brendan in the middle. I'd probably opt for Bren on the basis i think Dan's qualities might be more urgently required on the wing. We could do with at least one of the younger lads taking a leap forward this summer and making a statement, for sure.

Good post, would agree with that. I think we need to keep Breen midfield as the constant chopping and changing of him doesn't do him any good. He is most familiar at midfield and has the engine for it. Dan is also most familiar at wing forward amd has a big physical presence up there which is needed. Brian McGrath seems most likely of the younger crop. O Mara might be in discussion too if he wasn't injured.

Pogue eile wrote: »

And it has now been confirmed that Prunty and Fives are out for the Clare game and Gleeson is a serious doubt.

Bigger picture people!!

100% - no one will remember the league game if they meet in championship, but it has given our lads sn experience of what to expect if they meet. Lessons need to be learned from it all the same. Thankfully all look to have come through unscathed on our side.