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Do you believe in UFOs & flying saucers ?

Hamsterchops

Have you every seen an unidentified flying object?

A UFO of course is just an aerial phenomenon that you can't explain (hence unidentified), & probably not at all connected to little green men from Mars.

So what are UFOs and have you ever seen something in the sky that you couldn't explain?

In the past many people have mistaken aircraft, weather balloons, silver party balloons, and even bright planets in the night sky as UFOs, but of course under scrutiny they usually have a rational & logical explanation. More recently drones have been mistaken as UFOs.

Then in the last month we've had video clips released from the Pentagon actually showing real UFOs filmed darting around at amazing speeds & doing manouvers that would be impossible for any manned craft to do. The G forces would be so powerful as to kill any human occupants, so what was witnessed by the US Navy pilots and the aircraft carrier radar?

Are UFOs terrestrial or extraterrestrial craft?

Illusions or really there, imagination or reality?

What are UFOs !

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HillCloudHop

UFOs exist, you can't even argue against that. If there's a flying object that you can't identify, then it's a UFO. People see thousands of UFOs everyday.

ohnonotgmail

HillCloudHop wrote: »

UFOs exist, you can't even argue against that. If there's a flying object that you can't identify, then it's a UFO. People see thousands of UFOs everyday.

That is certainly true. We all see things in the sky that we can't identify. The issue is when you start saying that they must be extra-terrestrial because they seem to move in ways we don't understand.

Ninthlife

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Sonic boom is not produced by an object. It's produced by the air it displaces.

And even if you ignore the boom there's still the issue of compressive heating of air.

Radar is tricky. The UK had awful problems with their Nimrod AEW3 project. Not least of which was starting with an aircraft that had been out of production for bleedin' ages. The software had to be updated to ignore cars and fast cyclists because there were too many radar returns.

From what Ive read and listened to the propulsion system is believed to be gravitational plus if this technilogy is performing as the data suggests we cant understand it within our current knowledge and understanding of physics. It should produce a sonic boom but doesnt so its another question to ask Why not?

Also in the FLIR footage the air/area surrounding the object was colder than anywhere else. Does does prevent the heating of air

ohnonotgmail

Ninthlife wrote: »

From what Ive read and listened to the propulsion system is believed to be gravitational plus if this technilogy is performing as the data suggests we cant understand it within our current knowledge and understanding of physics. It should produce a sonic boom but doesnt so its another question to ask Why not?

Also in the FLIR footage the air/area surrounding the object was colder than anywhere else. Does does prevent the heating of air

believed by who?

Ninthlife

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

believed by who?

Apologies believed may be the wrong phraseology..suggested/guessed to be

And that suggestion has come from the Commander Fravor, Bob Lazar other talking heads involved in this discussion.

ohnonotgmail

Ninthlife wrote: »

Apologies believed may be the wrong phraseology..suggested/guessed to be

And that suggestion has come from the Commander Fravor, Bob Lazar other talking heads involved in this discussion.

I just can't take that seriously. On the one hand you hand you have an object that appears to move in ways beyond our understanding on physics and on the other you have people saying it is using "gravitational" propulsion when they have no idea what that involves. Speculation is one thing but it needs to be informed speculation, this is just making **** up.

Ninthlife

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I just can't take that seriously. On the one hand you hand you have an object that appears to move in ways beyond our understanding on physics and on the other you have people saying it is using "gravitational" propulsion when they have no idea what that involves. Speculation is one thing but it needs to be informed speculation, this is just making **** up.

Its a suggested theory....they arent saying they understand fully how but that it could be using it

By just saying thats just making **** up doesnt really add much

[Deleted User]

Ninthlife wrote: »

By just saying thats just making **** up doesnt really add much

I think the point is that by saying "could be using it" they do not really add much either.

I mean I could say "could be using the power of prayer" and I would have added _exactly_ as much to the conversation as they do when they say "could be using gravitational propulsion".

ohnonotgmail

Ninthlife wrote: »

Its a suggested theory....they arent saying they understand fully how but that it could be using it

By just saying thats just making **** up doesnt really add much

Neither does just making **** up. I could say that it was using magical pixie dust propulsion and it would have the same credibility.

HillCloudHop

Bob Lazar was convicted of running a prostitution ring. There's no verifiable proof that he has a college degree. Why would the US government trust him with reverse engineering alien technology? That guy has no credibility whatsoever. His conspiracy theory business is just easy money for him.

steddyeddy

Speculation can paralyse the process of scientific discovery. It's enough to say there's objects in the sky that are reported to go at speeds beyond anything we are currently capable of. The fact that the US military is admitting this is huge in itself.

The more dogmatic sceptics also need to learn that it's OK not to know what something is.

ohnonotgmail

steddyeddy wrote: »

Speculation can paralyse the process of scientific discovery. It's enough to say there's objects in the sky that are reported to go at speeds beyond anything we are currently capable of. The fact that the US military is admitting this is huge in itself.

The more dogmatic sceptics also need to learn that it's OK not to know what something is.

Not entirely sure who this is aimed at but it is the skeptics who keep saying that we don't know what they are and questioning those who make grand claims.

Ninthlife

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Neither does just making **** up. I could say that it was using magical pixie dust propulsion and it would have the same credibility.

Both yourself and taxAHcruel make the same point..

Im just a layman so I have no great understanding of physics or aeronautical engineering etc..so what exactly is not credible about a gravitational propulsion??

Ninthlife

HillCloudHop wrote: »

Bob Lazar was convicted of running a prostitution ring. There's no verifiable proof that he has a college degree. Why would the US government trust him with reverse engineering alien technology? That guy has no credibility whatsoever. His conspiracy theory business is just easy money for him.

Whether he ran one or not doesnt really change his opinion or experience on the subject.

The story behind him having no college degree is stated that it was 'erased' to discredit him. Records show he did work a Los Alamos National Lab

emo72

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I just can't take that seriously. On the one hand you hand you have an object that appears to move in ways beyond our understanding on physics and on the other you have people saying it is using "gravitational" propulsion when they have no idea what that involves. Speculation is one thing but it needs to be informed speculation, this is just making **** up.

I'm fairness now, when it's flying in the way described, and we're all scratching our heads trying to work out how it could be doing that, it's not unreasonable to suggest it's defying our laws of gravity as we understand it. Nobody can claim it's undeniably antigravity. But it's a reasonable suggestion.

When you say "speculation is one thing but it needs to be informed speculation." How can we get informed speculation in relation to seemably impossible flying machines? Who has the authority to inform us? The US government are equally scratching their heads. I think you are raising the bar to an incredibly high level that can't be attained. So I reasonably suggest that those vehicles seem to be defying gravity as we know it.

[Deleted User]

Ninthlife wrote: »

so what exactly is not credible about a gravitational propulsion??

I think the point is not about whether that form of propulsion is credible or not. Actually it is quite a vague phrase so it is hard to say what they even think they mean when they use it.

Rather - what is not credible is simply seeing something move you have never seen before - or something move in a way you have never seen before - and magically they think they have any data at all upon which to base a reverse engineering of what form of propulsion it is using.

Even if we did imagine these things are alien craft - which itself is an assumption based on nothing - then simply seeing it move tells us nothing other than it moves. We have no idea what these aliens are using to move it. We can _guess_ of course - but the point I think the user you are replying to is making - is that guess work is all it is. And we should never lose sight of that.

For all we know these aliens have figured out that the universe is indeed actually a holographic projection and they know how to re-write the sub code of that to simply move their manifestation from one location to another. They would not so much be travelling therefore - as simply influencing the "projector" that is forming the hologram.

Or for all we know Deepak Chopra is right and the universe is a universal-consciousness field and these aliens have brought that to a level that they can propel objects using the power of their minds.

Or for all we know there is in fact a god and these aliens have reached a stage of enlightenment and communication with god that they can now manipulate prayer beads in order to have god move their craft as they wished.

I just made all three of those things up. They are just as credible as anything anyone else makes up

ohnonotgmail

emo72 wrote: »

I'm fairness now, when it's flying in the way described, and we're all scratching our heads trying to work out how it could be doing that, it's not unreasonable to suggest it's defying our laws of gravity as we understand it. Nobody can claim it's undeniably antigravity. But it's a reasonable suggestion.

When you say "speculation is one thing but it needs to be informed speculation." How can we get informed speculation in relation to seemably impossible flying machines? Who has the authority to inform us? The US government are equally scratching their heads. I think you are raising the bar to an incredibly high level that can't be attained. So I reasonably suggest that those vehicles seem to be defying gravity as we know it.

we have a very different definition of "reasonable".

emo72

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just made all three of those things up. They are just as credible as anything anyone else makes up

Yeah. Your right. All 3 of your propositions are equally valid. Either way they would all be amazing if true.

ohnonotgmail

Ninthlife wrote: »

Whether he ran one or not doesnt really change his opinion or experience on the subject.

The story behind him having no college degree is stated that it was 'erased' to discredit him. Records show he did work a Los Alamos National Lab

that nonsense belongs in the conspiracy theories forum.

[Deleted User]

emo72 wrote: »

Yeah. Your right. All 3 of your propositions are equally valid. Either way they would all be amazing if true.

Yeah the mind powers one would be my favourite. As much as I hate liars and charlatans like Deepak Chopra - wouldn't it be so cool if the universe was in fact a consciousness field? And if we all got enlightened enough we would essentially be able to modify reality like Neo does in the Matrix.

It's funny how sceptics are often made out to be close minded or biased away from these "truths". But a universe of mind powers - or aliens visiting us - would be so super cool. I would love it all to be true.

The being sceptic part just means I notice that there is no reason to think any of it is at all true. Shame really

Ninthlife

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that nonsense belongs in the conspiracy theories forum.

You cant just dismiss everything that doesnt suit your own opinions.

Im not stating any of it to be true but im nit going to say its rubbish either.

Its all possible and what he has said in the past is matching some of the info that is now being released.

ohnonotgmail

Ninthlife wrote: »

You cant just dismiss everything that doesnt suit your own opinions.

Im not stating any of it to be true but im nit going to say its rubbish either.

Its all possible and what he has said in the past is matching some of the info that is now being released.

i was referring specifically to the part I bolded.

Ninthlife

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah the mind powers one would be my favourite. As much as I hate liars and charlatans like Deepak Chopra - wouldn't it be so cool if the universe was in fact a consciousness field? And if we all got enlightened enough we would essentially be able to modify reality like Neo does in the Matrix.

It's funny how sceptics are often made out to be close minded or biased away from these "truths". But a universe of mind powers - or aliens visiting us - would be so super cool. I would love it all to be true.

The being sceptic part just means I notice that there is no reason to think any of it is at all true. Shame really

Steven Greer talks a good bit about conciousness in the documentary Unacknowledged.

Edit** sorry its Close Encounters of the 5th Kind

Ninthlife

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i was referring specifically to the part I bolded.

I know..

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that the US Government could do it though

ohnonotgmail

Ninthlife wrote: »

I know..

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that the US Government could do it though

hence it belongs in conspiracy theories.

Ninthlife

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

hence it belongs in conspiracy theories.

Alot of what is discussed and theorized about these UAP phenomenons could belong in the conspiracy theory forum.

I dont think what will be contained in the report due to be released is going to be anything that isnt already known and there will be alot of things redacted too.

silliussoddius

Ninthlife wrote: »

Steven Greer talks a good bit about conciousness in the documentary Unacknowledged.

Edit** sorry its Close Encounters of the 5th Kind

And for $399 you can go make contact.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/ce5-contact-cosmic-consciousness-and-meditation-with-dr-steven-greer-tickets-145092783421

maccored

silliussoddius wrote: »

And for $399 you can go make contact.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/ce5-contact-cosmic-consciousness-and-meditation-with-dr-steven-greer-tickets-145092783421

thats for a weekend of meditation

silliussoddius

maccored wrote: »

thats for a weekend of meditation

Pure woo, invoking him doesn't help the current UFO conversation.

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ohnonotgmail

Ninthlife wrote: »

Alot of what is discussed and theorized about these UAP phenomenons could belong in the conspiracy theory forum.

I dont think what will be contained in the report due to be released is going to be anything that isnt already known and there will be alot of things redacted too.

speculation on the nature of these UFOs is not a conspiracy. Claiming that somebody has deleted your degree is a conspiracy.