The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It's local politics versus internationalism really, we are paying the price of our global dependency for our economy.
While we stay at home in Ireland for our work we will have high housing costs, if we were exporting our youngsters as in days gone by to foreign lands housing would be much cheaper.
But economic success and high paid jobs bring their financial demands on the earners.
The only way housing will be cheap again is when the economy bursts or shrinks.
Its what SF, or any party for that matter, will have to do to bring low cost housing back.
Don't be fooled or try to fool others, it's the public demand driving costs, not govt policy on housing really.

Or, alternatively, we could return to building social housing en masse and thus undercut the profits of the private market, thereby relieving demand pressure while ensuring that individuals pay a fair price for the roof over their heads. That's what SF have been calling for and that's what young voters want.

There's a reason O'Devaney Gardens caused such a massive, massive outcry among young people many of whom come from families who have never availed of social housing in the past. We believe that the model of price gouging being socially acceptable is simply no longer tenable and is doing unimaginable harm to society, and we want the government to provide housing as a public service like it did in the past, instead of literally allowing the wolves to be in charge of the chicken farm.

FrancieBrady

guy2231 wrote: »

Is it because they couldn't care less or is it that young people would see the provisional IRA similar to the old IRA?

Is it in a similar way to now, how older people view the old IRA through rose tinted glasses? Back in the old IRA days the upper and middle classes were largely disgusted by IRA actions and all the civilians that were being killed or disappearing at the hands of the old IRA.

Part of the same middle class were happy enough to ignore what the British were doing as well as long as their own wee nests were healthily and abundantly lined. Were it ever thus as we know to our cost.

guy2231 wrote: »

Is it because they couldn't care less or is it that young people would see the provisional IRA similar to the old IRA?

Is it in a similar way to now, how older people view the old IRA through rose tinted glasses? Back in the old IRA days the upper and middle classes were largely disgusted by IRA actions and all the civilians that were being killed or disappearing at the hands of the old IRA.

I think most people, young and old have moved on since GFA.

guy2231

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

We've tried explaining ourselves in simple terms and either through intentional feigning of ignorance or genuine ignorance, people are still asking the same questions. Ergo, we are now answering those questions in more detail, in the hopes that people might finally get it.

Two sentences to summarise: Young people weren't alive for the IRA days, ergo they frankly couldn't care less. They are alive for the housing crisis, ergo frankly they care very deeply.

Hence, the SF surge. It's very, very simple.

Is it because they couldn't care less or is it that young people would see the provisional IRA similar to the old IRA?

Is it in a similar way to now, how older people view the old IRA through rose tinted glasses? Back in the old IRA days the upper and middle classes were largely disgusted by IRA actions and all the civilians that were being killed or disappearing at the hands of the old IRA.

RandomName2

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Lot of anger here……. this poster opines.

Might have to steady myself up here…. dangerous times I say….. dangerous times in fairness.

I don't personally think that any members of Sinn Fein are particularly likely to engage in violence again, but they do leave open the threat of making life easier for those that are engaged in violence. Sinn Fein targets the Garda Commissioner (politically) and SCC in order to make life easier for dissidents, while they themselves hold information relating to dissidents that they won't divulge.

More serious though is the impact in Northern Ireland if you have a Sinn Fein government here pushing for unification while Sinn Fein is also in Stormont. That will be a definite path for violence, albeit instigated by loyalists. No doubt that will be a price some people here are willing to pay.

Bishop of hope

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

We've tried explaining ourselves in simple terms and either through intentional feigning of ignorance or genuine ignorance, people are still asking the same questions. Ergo, we are now answering those questions in more detail, in the hopes that people might finally get it.

Two sentences to summarise: Young people weren't alive for the IRA days, ergo they frankly couldn't care less. They are alive for the housing crisis, ergo frankly they care very deeply.

Hence, the SF surge. It's very, very simple.

It's local politics versus internationalism really, we are paying the price of our global dependency for our economy.
While we stay at home in Ireland for our work we will have high housing costs, if we were exporting our youngsters as in days gone by to foreign lands housing would be much cheaper.
But economic success and high paid jobs bring their financial demands on the earners.
The only way housing will be cheap again is when the economy bursts or shrinks.
Its what SF, or any party for that matter, will have to do to bring low cost housing back.
Don't be fooled or try to fool others, it's the public demand driving costs, not govt policy on housing really.

Brendan Bendar

Fann Linn wrote: »

Lock up de Hacienda Brenners.
The Enemy is at the Gates!!!

Locked and bolted for a few days, Fann

Don’t want to attract any attention from ‘incendiary sources’.

Wait till things cool down, like.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Lot of anger here……. this poster opines.

Might have to steady myself up here…. dangerous times I say….. dangerous times in fairness.

Lock up de Hacienda Brenners.
The Enemy is at the Gates!!!

Brendan Bendar

Lot of anger here……. this poster opines.

Might have to steady myself up here…. dangerous times I say….. dangerous times in fairness.

Ted_YNWA

costacorta wrote: »

You’d want to change your medication as you seem to be hallucinating..

costacorta wrote: »

I got the satire and that’s why I posted it ! You need to take off the balaclava and get some air into that brain &#55358;&#56800;.
I never voted FG in my life so don’t know why you mentioned that ,

And on the point that Ian made I actually would believe that there are priests and plenty of hardcore catholics who would agree with DUP policies and beliefs on Same sex marriage and abortion. I even seen people down south swear they would never give certain politicians a vote again after our abortion referendum.

Now I have as much time for DUP and SF as I have for your rambling on here and stated before that it would be great for everyone if the two parties would just F off to some island and take their followers with them .. You included

costacorta wrote: »

Hmmm Firstly I couldn’t care less what you believe .
Secondly if you want to find out more about Catholic priest you can contact your local SF councillor or TD as he can email Ian junior for an answer as ye are part of a 32county party ye claim so he might get an answer for you ..
Thirdly : Another poster on here defending SF and then denies he ever voted for them. 40 posts since you joined and over 3/4 of them defending SF or giving out about govt on FF/FG thread hmmmm.

I can’t imagine what you be like on here when you eventually get to vote for SF/IRA for the first time ? You must be so excited at the prospect.

So many posters on here defending SF to the bitter end and who never voted for them ? Reminds me of Gerry always denying he was ever in the IRA ..

Mod

Don't post in this thread again. You obviously can't be civil with others.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Curtains of text……….I’m outa here dude.

We've tried explaining ourselves in simple terms and either through intentional feigning of ignorance or genuine ignorance, people are still asking the same questions. Ergo, we are now answering those questions in more detail, in the hopes that people might finally get it.

Two sentences to summarise: Young people weren't alive for the IRA days, ergo they frankly couldn't care less. They are alive for the housing crisis, ergo frankly they care very deeply.

Hence, the SF surge. It's very, very simple.

costacorta wrote: »

Listen bud I have no problem with anyone voting for whoever they want as long as they are honest enough to say it .. The way I look at it is totally different to you.

I am now mid50s lived thru 2 recessions and at the age of 20 had to leave home and head across the sea to get work like thousands more . I worked 7 days a week stayed in houses with 6 others and believe me it was much tougher than your generation had to deal with.

I came back after 9 yrs got work, married, had kids and bought a house with a 25 yr mortgage. I bet you don’t realise how much interest rates were in early 90s but you know what We grafted hard and got on with it , no foreign holidays or mobile phones or TVs in every room of the house.

Today mortgage paid off early kids now adults and yes 2 still living at home but they seem happy enough have good enough jobs and I think just enjoying things I never had like travelling etc .

I suppose what I’m trying to say is you lot today don’t really know what tough is ? I am going to keep going in my job for another 5 yrs and retire hopefully and head off to somewhere sunny and just relax ..

None of this is relevant, because people are literally comparing their own lives then with their own lives now. That's what so, so many people are entirely failing to understand. This isn't about one generation versus another, this is about one generation's past versus its present, and its future. This generation's past was better than its present, and the reason the present sucks in comparison to the past is a direct consequence of government policies designed intentionally to inflate the cost of residential property. It's that simple. This is not about decade vs decade, this is about five years ago vs today. Five years ago, the ratio between the cost of living and income was lower than it is now. And people are angry about that.

You simply cannot allow people to become accustomed to a certain standard of living, snatch it away from them after they've got comfortable with it, and expect them not to revolt. That's simply not how human psychology works. We can debate the rights and wrongs of the system all we like, it won't change the fact that taking away someone's comfort in life or reducing their standard of living will always make that person angry, and the increase in the cost of living relative to a much smaller increase in income over time has resulted in a generation which was able to live in far better conditions five years ago than it is today.

Frankly, we don't particularly care how it happens, we're demanding that the government make an effort to restore the better life we used to enjoy before the cost of living went through the roof and many of the things people used to be able to enjoy were suddenly put beyond their reach, despite how hard they have worked or any other factors within their control.

This is very, very, very basic human psychology. It shouldn't require endless debate and walls of text to understand.

Look, if I work five hours a day for €5, and with that €5 I can buy five litre bottles of milk at €1 each, that is a particular standard of living.

If in five years due to promotion, I now earn €10 in that same day, but I can now only buy three litre bottles of milk, because while my earnings have doubled, the cost of a bottle of milk has tripled to €3, that means that although I am now working much harder than I did five years ago, my quality of life has ultimately declined. I'm working harder and, due to this stagflation effect, I'm effectively earning less for my work than I did when I worked half as hard in previous years.

That is ultimately what the "recovery" in the macroeconomy has done to young people. That's why they're pissed. Comparing life now to life before we were born is a useless argument because we are literally comparing two lived experienced, one of which was better than the other, and becoming angry at the people who not only forced the lesser of those lived experiences upon us, but smugly and condescendingly told us that we should learn to like it.

No, we won't. The people telling us to do that are the people we're telling to go f*ck themselves at election time.

I really don't know how I can state this any simpler, to be honest.

If €1,200 per month could rent somebody a one bedroom apartment with a separate kitchen and living room in 2016, whereas now that same amount can expect to rent a crappy co-living "unit" with shared facilities and no room to swing a cat, that again represents a decline in living standards.

That is Fine Gael's fault. It's also Fianna Fails fault. Both parties have told us we need to get used to it because they don't want to do anything to fix it. Sinn Fein have told us that we shouldn't have to get used to it and that they will at least try to fix it. Ergo, we are voting against the former and in favour of the latter.

This. Is. Not. Complicated.

Finally I never had much time for politicians and never really voted party just for an individual if I knew of them or whatever. My dislike for SF is more their association with IRA and bombs going off in England when being an Irishman working there which wasn’t easy but you younger guys will never experience that .

That's a fair argument, but again it's lived vs unlived experience. We weren't around for that crisis, but we're around for this one. You feel that Sinn Fein inflamed that one, but we don't know because we weren't there. We feel that Sinn Fein are going to try and fix this one, so we will vote for them.

Very, very basic human psychology.

Brendan Bendar

Curtains of text……….I’m outa here dude.

guy2231

costacorta wrote: »

Listen bud I have no problem with anyone voting for whoever they want as long as they are honest enough to say it .. The way I look at it is totally different to you.

I am now mid50s lived thru 2 recessions and at the age of 20 had to leave home and head across the sea to get work like thousands more . I worked 7 days a week stayed in houses with 6 others and believe me it was much tougher than your generation had to deal with.

I came back after 9 yrs got work, married, had kids and bought a house with a 25 yr mortgage. I bet you don’t realise how much interest rates were in early 90s but you know what We grafted hard and got on with it , no foreign holidays or mobile phones or TVs in every room of the house.

Today mortgage paid off early kids now adults and yes 2 still living at home but they seem happy enough have good enough jobs and I think just enjoying things I never had like travelling etc .

I suppose what I’m trying to say is you lot today don’t really know what tough is ? I am going to keep going in my job for another 5 yrs and retire hopefully and head off to somewhere sunny and just relax ..

Finally I never had much time for politicians and never really voted party just for an individual if I knew of them or whatever. My dislike for SF is more their association with IRA and bombs going off in England when being an Irishman working there which wasn’t easy but you younger guys will never experience that .

Well they shouldn't have been terrorising our people and shouldn't have partioned our nation against the will of the majority of the people of Ireland then there would have been no bombs going off in England.

You seem to blame Sinn Fein and the IRA for the hatred you got rather than blame England for what they done or blame the ignorant people who treated you like that.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

You can look back through my posting history of 11 or 12 years to see that I've never supported SF until the election of 2020, and plenty of others have a similar experience. Cost of living hyperinflation from 2016-17 onwards absolutely f*cked so, so many close friends of mine and in many cases forced them to move back to their family home in their late twenties having spent the decade working hard only for their income to be rapidly outstripped by spiralling rents.

The government's response to this, in 2019 in particular, is one of the main factors in why so many people I know - many of whom come from what would be regarded as a "D4" background and whose parents' generation would never, ever be caught dead voting for Sinn Fein, are not only now SF supporters but in some cases, card carrying, paid up party members.

There are plenty of first-time SF voters from the election of Feb 2020, and plenty more never-voted-for-SF who plan to do so at the next election. Why is this so difficult to believe? Quality of life took an absolute nosedive for many young people from 2016 onwards, hence that was the beginning of the SF surge and this accelerated rapidly throughout the following three years as the economy, to use FG phrasing, "took off like a rocket" and left so many young peoples' formerly decent incomes behind in the dust.

When peoples' income to expenses ratios were better during the worst recession since the 1930s than they are during "recovery" it's an indicator that something has gone badly, badly wrong in terms of government policy. There is literally no other way to spin that phenomenon - it's utterly ridiculous to claim that people should be happy to see inflation outstripping their incomes just because macroeconomic indicators are green. Nobody cares what the numbers or the graphs say, they care that they have less disposable income left over from a 9-5 job after paying rent than they did when they were working part time during their college years. It's that simple.

Listen bud I have no problem with anyone voting for whoever they want as long as they are honest enough to say it .. The way I look at it is totally different to you.

I am now mid50s lived thru 2 recessions and at the age of 20 had to leave home and head across the sea to get work like thousands more . I worked 7 days a week stayed in houses with 6 others and believe me it was much tougher than your generation had to deal with.

I came back after 9 yrs got work, married, had kids and bought a house with a 25 yr mortgage. I bet you don’t realise how much interest rates were in early 90s but you know what We grafted hard and got on with it , no foreign holidays or mobile phones or TVs in every room of the house.

Today mortgage paid off early, kids now adults and yes 2 still living at home but they seem happy enough have good enough jobs and I think just enjoying things I never had like travelling etc .

I suppose what I’m trying to say is you lot today don’t really know what tough is ? I am going to keep going in my job for another 5 yrs and retire hopefully and head off to somewhere sunny and just relax ..

Finally I never had much time for politicians and never really voted party just for an individual if I knew of them or whatever. My dislike for SF is more their association with IRA and bombs going off in England when being an Irishman working there which wasn’t easy but you younger guys will never experience that .

Fann Linn wrote: »

It is really that simple. Health and Housing were the biggest issues as per the last election exit polls. Over the next few months plenty of people renting are going to see possible increases in rents of up to 8%. All these young people with no hope of a home and having no memories of terrorist atrocities are of course going to vote for a party that offers some hope as opposed to two govt parties that have ruled the state since it's foundation.

I would expand upon this by saying that I really, really feel many folks underestimate that young people genuinely don't believe that FF or FG have failed in their attempts to fix the cost of living issue - they believe that FG in particular actively wanted to see this situation develop, because it benefits their demographic.

In other words, this is not a case of a government doing nothing while the ladder was pulled up away from the young - this is a case of a government pulling the ladder up with their own hands while bragging about how this constituted "recovery".

It is for this reason that young people are so apoplectically bitter and angry. If Sinn Fein fail to fix the problem, people will be disappointed. But there's a world of difference between trying to fix it and failing, and actively saying "rising rents and house prices are a good thing for the property owning demographics, and we don't give a f*ck about the non property owning demographics whose lives are torn apart as a result".

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

In my view, this pair if tweets says it all, although I wouldn;t single FF out in the second tweet but include all three governing parties:

https://twitter.com/eoinmauricedaly/status/1403956471956705281

https://twitter.com/OrlaGleans/status/1404026339288571904

It is really that simple. Health and Housing were the biggest issues as per the last election exit polls. Over the next few months plenty of people renting are going to see possible increases in rents of up to 8%. All these young people with no hope of a home and having no memories of terrorist atrocities are of course going to vote for a party that offers some hope as opposed to two govt parties that have ruled the state since it's foundation.

costacorta wrote: »

So many posters on here defending SF to the bitter end and who never voted for them ? Reminds me of Gerry always denying he was ever in the IRA ..

You can look back through my posting history of 11 or 12 years to see that I've never supported SF until the election of 2020, and plenty of others have a similar experience. Cost of living hyperinflation from 2016-17 onwards absolutely f*cked so, so many close friends of mine and in many cases forced them to move back to their family home in their late twenties having spent the decade working hard only for their income to be rapidly outstripped by spiralling rents.

The government's response to this, in 2019 in particular, is one of the main factors in why so many people I know - many of whom come from what would be regarded as a "D4" background and whose parents' generation would never, ever be caught dead voting for Sinn Fein, are not only now SF supporters but in some cases, card carrying, paid up party members.

There are plenty of first-time SF voters from the election of Feb 2020, and plenty more never-voted-for-SF who plan to do so at the next election. Why is this so difficult to believe? Quality of life took an absolute nosedive for many young people from 2016 onwards, hence that was the beginning of the SF surge and this accelerated rapidly throughout the following three years as the economy, to use FG phrasing, "took off like a rocket" and left so many young peoples' formerly decent incomes behind in the dust.

When peoples' income to expenses ratios were better during the worst recession since the 1930s than they are during "recovery" it's an indicator that something has gone badly, badly wrong in terms of government policy. There is literally no other way to spin that phenomenon - it's utterly ridiculous to claim that people should be happy to see inflation outstripping their incomes just because macroeconomic indicators are green. Nobody cares what the numbers or the graphs say, they care that they have less disposable income left over from a 9-5 job after paying rent than they did when they were working part time during their college years. It's that simple.

In my view, this pair if tweets says it all, although I wouldn;t single FF out in the second tweet but include all three governing parties:

https://twitter.com/eoinmauricedaly/status/1403956471956705281

https://twitter.com/OrlaGleans/status/1404026339288571904

Interesting point made by Pat Leahy on the Week in Politics re this latest poll in that there was no 'vaccine boost' for govt parties in this. If this trend was to continue it would be worrying for the Govt.

CDarby wrote: »

Sorry, but I simply don't believe you that you got the satire, you appeared to swallow Paisleys claim hook line and sinker, and added your own commentary to support his claim, epic failure trying to reclaim the high ground now

As for your "balaclava" post, and your thinly veiled insinuations that I'm a sf member or supporter, I'm from a long line of "FF stock" who has had many family members in the party from council to govt levels back in the day. As of last year I however will never vote for them again, certainly not while Martin is leading them, don't let my hatred of FG, and now FF for getting into bed with them cloud your opinions on me.

I have never voted SF, but I am on the lookout for a new home for my vote.

Tell me more about Catholic priests and urging their parishioners to vote for paisley please.

Hmmm Firstly I couldn’t care less what you believe .
Secondly if you want to find out more about Catholic priest you can contact your local SF councillor or TD as he can email Ian junior for an answer as ye are part of a 32county party ye claim so he might get an answer for you ..
Thirdly : Another poster on here defending SF and then denies he ever voted for them. 40 posts since you joined and over 3/4 of them defending SF or giving out about govt on FF/FG thread hmmmm.

I can’t imagine what you be like on here when you eventually get to vote for SF/IRA for the first time ? You must be so excited at the prospect.

So many posters on here defending SF to the bitter end and who never voted for them ? Reminds me of Gerry always denying he was ever in the IRA ..

guy2231

Can't wait for the next election, in 4 years time I could easily see an overall majority for Sinn Fein.

CDarby

costacorta wrote: »

I got the satire and that’s why I posted it ! You need to take off the balaclava and get some air into that brain &#55358;&#56800;.
I never voted FG in my life so don’t know why you mentioned that ,

And on the point that Ian made I actually would believe that there are priests and plenty of hardcore catholics who would agree with DUP policies and beliefs on Same sex marriage and abortion. I even seen people down south sweat they would never give certain politicians a vote again after our abortion referendum.

Now I have as much time for DUP and SF as I have for your rambling on here and stated before that it would be great for everyone if the two parties would just F off to some island and take their followers with them .. You included

Sorry, but I simply don't believe you that you got the satire, you appeared to swallow Paisleys claim hook line and sinker, and added your own commentary to support his claim, epic failure trying to reclaim the high ground now

As for your "balaclava" post, and your thinly veiled insinuations that I'm a sf member or supporter, I'm from a long line of "FF stock" who has had many family members in the party from council to govt levels back in the day. As of last year I however will never vote for them again, certainly not while Martin is leading them, don't let my hatred of FG, and now FF for getting into bed with them cloud your opinions on me.

I have never voted SF, but I am on the lookout for a new home for my vote.

Tell me more about Catholic priests and urging their parishioners to vote for paisley please.

CDarby wrote: »

Too late to try claiming the high moral ground here tbh , you seem to have missed the satire contained not only in Matt Coopers post, but also that of the Alliance party leader.

The above is absolutely nativity on display, think about it for a nanosecond, a Catholic priest urging his parishioners to vote for the staunchly anti Catholic DUP?? That would be like the Grand Wizard of the KKK claiming MLKs family were offering them unquestionable support.

You obviously weren't top of your class in political science.

FG are all too keen to hang on every word from the dups mouths, (your post is textbook example of this lol) unquestionably, the fact FF got into bed with them is why I'll never vote for them in my life again while that snake Martin is "leading" them.

I got the satire and that’s why I posted it ! You need to take off the balaclava and get some air into that brain ðŸ§ .
I never voted FG in my life so don’t know why you mentioned that ,

And on the point that Ian made I actually would believe that there are priests and plenty of hardcore catholics who would agree with DUP policies and beliefs on Same sex marriage and abortion. I even seen people down south swear they would never give certain politicians a vote again after our abortion referendum.

Now I have as much time for DUP and SF as I have for your rambling on here and stated before that it would be great for everyone if the two parties would just F off to some island and take their followers with them .. You included

CDarby

costacorta wrote: »

You’d want to change your medication as you seem to be hallucinating..

Too late to try claiming the high moral ground here tbh , you seem to have missed the satire contained not only in Matt Coopers post, but also that of the Alliance party leader.

DUP will have a lot of catholics who believe in church’s teaching voting for them it seems. Even the priests are asking parishioners to vote DUP !! You couldn’t make this ****e up .

The above is absolutely nativity on display, think about it for a nanosecond, a Catholic priest urging his parishioners to vote for the staunchly anti Catholic DUP?? That would be like the Grand Wizard of the KKK claiming MLKs family were offering them unquestionable support.

You obviously weren't top of your class in political science.

FG are all too keen to hang on every word from the dups mouths, (your post is textbook example of this lol) unquestionably, the fact FF got into bed with them is why I'll never vote for them in my life again while that snake Martin is "leading" them.

CDarby wrote: »

I think Ian Og just did actually LOL, maybe you didn't get the sarcasm from Naoimi Longs follow up tweet which you also quoted LOL?

The absolute nativity in this post is embarrassing tbh.

You’d want to change your medication as you seem to be hallucinating..

CDarby

costacorta wrote: »

https://twitter.com/cooper_m/status/1403809818251497472?s=21

DUP will have a lot of catholics who believe in church’s teaching voting for them it seems. Even the priests are asking parishioners to vote DUP !! You couldn’t make this ****e up .

I think Ian Og just did actually LOL, maybe you didn't get the sarcasm from Naoimi Longs follow up tweet which you also quoted LOL?

The absolute nativity in this post is embarrassing tbh.

FrancieBrady

costacorta wrote: »

https://twitter.com/cooper_m/status/1403809818251497472?s=21

DUP will have a lot of catholics who believe in church’s teaching voting for them it seems. Even the priests are asking parishioners to vote DUP !! You couldn’t make this ****e up .

Are you latching on to a claim from Ian Paisley?

Desperation stakes.