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Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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This is the official Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Any posts that should be in the race weekend threads that are posted in here will get deleted without warning

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Charlie-Bravo

Ooh interesting. Maybe there's been a bit of a bite back by Bottas from the Baku Qualy shenanigans. Then poor performance in general from him in a not so perfect Merc!!

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/F1Xtra_com/status/1404772470989656064?s=19

Zookey123

In relation to the french GP it looks like most of the track has been resurfaced and most of the corners have been re-profiled. This was apparently done for drainage as well as more over takes. After the last few races the track has developed a reputation of a snooze fest. Hopefully these changes can bring some good racing this weekend.

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

Mick has shown that his first year in a new formula is much worse than his second - even see F2, he was much better last year than the year before. I dont think he would claim to be particlulary good at adapting quickly.

I'd expect, all things being equal in 2022, that mick will be further ahead of mazespin. (Or maze$pin if you'd prefer).

The only money driver that's been worthy of a seat this season has been stroll. The others like latifi, mazespin etc should not be on the grid. But it's always been the same. If you watched in the 90s there were plenty of Dinizs for every MSC!

Yeah I'd agree with that.

It's interesting to see who to class as a pay driver. Perez is a pay driver. Alonso and Webber both got their starts at Minardi and they only took pay drivers. Alonso has always had big sponsors (I think Telefonica in his Minardi days and Santander more recently).

I'm sure Perez money helped him get the Red Bull drive. They were very reluctant to look outside their Red Bull drivers, but mad an exception in Perez case. His millions in a pandemic couldn't have hurt his chances of getting the RB seat.

El_Duderino 09

Joeface wrote: »

Cause the Gap between them at the start was large . It has come down considerably.

He was head of MSC in all the sessions of Monaco , and a few in Baku as well. As he is on the Grid the he has to improve cause he will be there for some time Given the money behind him.

That's true. His practice pace has definitely improved but his quali and race pace is still well behind Schumacher. Schumacher is much more consistent and faster than Mazepin.

Mazepin held with Schumacher for the first few laps in Baku. Then Schumacher pitted and Mazepin pitted a couple of laps later, with a 7 second gap on lap 12 when they both emerged. Then Schumacher opened up a 21s by lap 24 and then he must have spun as the gap goes to 45s.

He shows glimpses of being on Schumacher's pace, then blows it.

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Probably similar reasons to why Danny Ric is struggling to learn the Mclaren.

Adaptability is a strength in a driver. Failing to adapt to a car is a fair criticism of a driver.

At this early stage in the season we can safely say Drivers like Danny Ric and Mazepin have failed to get up to speed with their cars QUICKLY. Sainz, on the other hand, appears to have gotten up to speed relatively quickly which is to his credit.
Latifi's race pace is much closer to Russell than last year (quali pace still strongly in Russell's favour. Ocon's second half of last season was much stronger than his first half. He was very close to Ric in the second half.

Drivers take time to get up to speed in cars. Doing it quickly is better than doing it slowly, but not having done it after 6 races doesn't mean they will never do it.

I've no idea whether Ric and Mazepin will ever get up to speed (you'd imagine Ric will though)

Mick has shown that his first year in a new formula is much worse than his second - even see F2, he was much better last year than the year before. I dont think he would claim to be particlulary good at adapting quickly.

I'd expect, all things being equal in 2022, that mick will be further ahead of mazespin. (Or maze$pin if you'd prefer).

The only money driver that's been worthy of a seat this season has been stroll. The others like latifi, mazespin etc should not be on the grid. But it's always been the same. If you watched in the 90s there were plenty of Dinizs for every MSC!

ELM327

Joeface wrote: »

Cause the Gap between them at the start was large . It has come down considerably.

He was head of MSC in all the sessions of Monaco , and a few in Baku as well. As he is on the Grid the he has to improve cause he will be there for some time Given the money behind him.

practice sessions are not relevant though. Only race results.
Look at george russel. Great in qualifying but does nothing with it in the race - much as I like GR - and it's useless for williams as they dont get points for making Q2/Q3

In the race it's common for mick to be half a minute ahead.

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

If mazespin is still learning the car, why is he consistently behind MSC who would be doing the same?

Probably similar reasons to why Danny Ric is struggling to learn the Mclaren.

Adaptability is a strength in a driver. Failing to adapt to a car is a fair criticism of a driver.

At this early stage in the season we can safely say Drivers like Danny Ric and Mazepin have failed to get up to speed with their cars QUICKLY. Sainz, on the other hand, appears to have gotten up to speed relatively quickly which is to his credit.
Latifi's race pace is much closer to Russell than last year (quali pace still strongly in Russell's favour. Ocon's second half of last season was much stronger than his first half. He was very close to Ric in the second half.

Drivers take time to get up to speed in cars. Doing it quickly is better than doing it slowly, but not having done it after 6 races doesn't mean they will never do it.

I've no idea whether Ric and Mazepin will ever get up to speed (you'd imagine Ric will though)

Joeface

Cause the Gap between them at the start was large . It has come down considerably.

He was head of MSC in all the sessions of Monaco , and a few in Baku as well. As he is on the Grid the he has to improve cause he will be there for some time Given the money behind him.

ELM327

If mazespin is still learning the car, why is he consistently behind MSC who would be doing the same?

eviltimeban

If Mazepin's father wasn't involved, we wouldn't be having these conversations. He'd have already been replaced.

duploelabs

This is it wrote: »

He's someone that's easy to dislike, much like Hamilton.

Between the flag/livery, points on his f2 license, the money and grabbing women's bits he might as well be Ivan Drago, all we need is an American to come to the rescue and kick his ass.

Hardly unusual that some people would dislike him, is it?

It's quite the strawman argument to compare him to Hamilton. On his behaviour, I don't want my daughters to grow up around boys who idolise drivers like mazepin and think that behaviour is cool, and thus my daughters, or any women, be subject to it. But that point is not one for this thread.
On a driver front, he's dangerous, and has shown no sign of improvement in pace. You could say 'oh he's learning tha car', well so are the other rookies and they're not 2% down on everyone else. And useless there's a massive turnaround in skill level from what he's displayed so far, I don't see that skill gap closing any time soon

muckwarrior

duploelabs wrote: »

The difference is that Senna could actually drive an F1 car

That's not the only difference though. Even if Senna acted like that (frankly I don't know whether he did or not), the world is a different place than it was a few decades ago. Some things that were acceptable then are unacceptable now, and rightly so.

Jordan 199

MadYaker wrote: »

What are peoples opinions on the French GP? Many seem to think it's the most boring of the year, is it a guaranteed stinker or worth a watch?

It will probably be a stinker. But they could always liven it up by turning on the sprinklers.

El_Duderino 09

duploelabs wrote: »

I'd like to see a historical similarity where a rookie, with as constantly bad margin lap times as Mazepin does, suddenly got good as you attest he will, in a subsequent season

I don't attest he will become good. I said it's likely he will improve with the benefit of a year's practice. Hardly a bold claim.

duploelabs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Oh yeah I'd say you're right that they won't be able to carry it over until next year (assuming the have to register these things annually). But they didn't actually break the rules and still people who aren't affected by the rules are cross about them getting in before the rule took effect. Can you see how that's pretty unusual?

It's only a small issue anyway. He's pretty irrelevant in the sport this year. Just making up the numbers in the Haas. Interesting to see how Haas goes next year given that they've switched to developing the new car before anyone else. Solid mid table wouldn't be an unreasonable expectation for them - and then Mazepin's driving style would become much more relevant. He'll have a full year of experience under his belt by then though, and like Stroll, will likely be improved for the practice.

I'd like to see a historical similarity where a rookie, with as constantly bad margin lap times as Mazepin does, suddenly got good as you attest he will, in a subsequent season

El_Duderino 09

duploelabs wrote: »

It's there because it got in before the ban, I doubt they'd be able to repeat it next season

Oh yeah I'd say you're right that they won't be able to carry it over until next year (assuming the have to register these things annually). But they didn't actually break the rules and still people who aren't affected by the rules are cross about them getting in before the rule took effect. Can you see how that's pretty unusual?

It's only a small issue anyway. He's pretty irrelevant in the sport this year. Just making up the numbers in the Haas. Interesting to see how Haas goes next year given that they've switched to developing the new car before anyone else. Solid mid table wouldn't be an unreasonable expectation for them - and then Mazepin's driving style would become much more relevant. He'll have a full year of experience under his belt by then though, and like Stroll, will likely be improved for the practice.

duploelabs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No argument on the Russian state sponsored doping. Pretty heavy media bias in general though.

Are we at least agree that the ban doesn't apply to the Haas livery and it doesn't break the rules?

It's there because it got in before the ban, I doubt they'd be able to repeat it next season

El_Duderino 09

duploelabs wrote: »

There's no media bias when it comes to the Russian sports agency, they're found to be corrupt as a total organisation by a court of law, not a court of opinion, hence the ban

No argument on the Russian state sponsored doping. Pretty heavy media bias in general though.

Are we at least agree that the ban doesn't apply to the Haas livery and it doesn't break the rules?

duploelabs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's not banned though. They got the livery in before the ban took effect so it turns out it didn't break any rules.

It's just national a flag liver the people got really cross about because they thought it broke a rule but it actually didn't. It's not a bad livery, white with blue and red are pretty classic racing colours. Even so, If I were WADA then I'd be cross that they got around the rules, but I'm not WADA so I really don't see why anyone else got upset. I think it's an anti-Russian bias. I'm probably biased against Russia myself - hard not to be given the media coverage of Russia.

There's no media bias when it comes to the Russian sports agency, they're found to be corrupt as a total organisation by a court of law, not a court of opinion, hence the ban

El_Duderino 09

duploelabs wrote: »

The flag is banned due to " a Court of Arbitration for Sport ruling from December which barred Russia’s name, flag, anthem and other national symbols in a package of sanctions over what it deemed Russia’s failure to turn over accurate data from the Moscow drug-testing laboratory. "

not because any sensitivities, actual global sport law.

It's not banned though. They got the livery in before the ban took effect so it turns out it didn't break any rules.

It's just national a flag liver the people got really cross about because they thought it broke a rule but it actually didn't. It's not a bad livery, white with blue and red are pretty classic racing colours. Even so, If I were WADA then I'd be cross that they got around the rules, but I'm not WADA so I really don't see why anyone else got upset. I think it's an anti-Russian bias. I'm probably biased against Russia myself - hard not to be given the media coverage of Russia.

duploelabs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

SO if Mazepin was fast then feeling up young wans and punching rivals would be top banter?

All those outrages were before he had turned an F1 wheel. The flag one in particular was totally over the top. Like, its a flag livery design, so what? But the outrage was proportionate to if he had painted a big "fcuk you" on the side of the car. It was just a national flag.

The flag is banned due to " a Court of Arbitration for Sport ruling from December which barred Russia’s name, flag, anthem and other national symbols in a package of sanctions over what it deemed Russia’s failure to turn over accurate data from the Moscow drug-testing laboratory. "

not because any sensitivities, actual global sport law.

He shouldn't be on the grid and has caused a serious disproportionate amount of incidences that could lead to something very serious, I'm surprised that he's actually passed his super license

pjohnson

How do people still fall for it :pac:

[Deleted User]

duploelabs wrote: »

The difference is that Senna could actually drive an F1 car

Ah hook, line and sinker.

El_Duderino 09

duploelabs wrote: »

The difference is that Senna could actually drive an F1 car

SO if Mazepin was fast then feeling up young wans and punching rivals would be top banter?

All those outrages were before he had turned an F1 wheel. The flag one in particular was totally over the top. Like, its a flag livery design, so what? But the outrage was proportionate to if he had painted a big "fcuk you" on the side of the car. It was just a national flag.

I don't really care one way or the other. He's one of the least consequential drivers on the grid at the moment, tends to drive around on his own at the back or a few seconds away from Schumacher,.

duploelabs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

France is up there with Monaco as the worst races.

I find the hate for Mazepin interesting. I think it comes back to an inherent distrust of Russia.the outrage at the Russian flag car design was totally disproportionate. Feeling up young wans and punching rivals were top banter if Senna did it.

In any case. When Mazepin has been there for 5 years. Like Stroll, then this conversation will have moved into the "he's there on merit" phase too - as long as his bottle doesn't go.

The difference is that Senna could actually drive an F1 car

El_Duderino 09

MadYaker wrote: »

Yeah Lance is middling which is fine, you could argue he'd have a right to be there on merit. People bash him and his family but to be honest he seems like a likeable enough guy. His father rescued a team that may have gone bust and offered Williams a fair partnership deal also, they've had a positive influence on the sport imo. A hell of a lot better than Mazepin at least.

What are peoples opinions on the French GP? Many seem to think it's the most boring of the year, is it a guaranteed stinker or worth a watch?

France is up there with Monaco as the worst races.

I find the hate for Mazepin interesting. I think it comes back to an inherent distrust of Russia.the outrage at the Russian flag car design was totally disproportionate. Feeling up young wans and punching rivals were top banter if Senna did it.

In any case. When Mazepin has been there for 5 years. Like Stroll, then this conversation will have moved into the "he's there on merit" phase too - as long as his bottle doesn't go.

MadYaker

Yeah Lance is middling which is fine, you could argue he'd have a right to be there on merit. People bash him and his family but to be honest he seems like a likeable enough guy. His father rescued a team that may have gone bust and offered Williams a fair partnership deal also, they've had a positive influence on the sport imo. A hell of a lot better than Mazepin at least.

What are peoples opinions on the French GP? Many seem to think it's the most boring of the year, is it a guaranteed stinker or worth a watch?

El_Duderino 09

muckwarrior wrote: »

Not marginally beaten, well beaten. He got a podium in a race that Massa was set to win but for a mechanical. As a result the points difference was close.

Lance has graduated from being slow-as-f*ck to merely below average.

Fair analysis. He's in the average range.
In the same way that Vettel was good in the last 2 races, Stroll was poor in those weekends. Granted he might have scored points if not for the tyre failure in Baku.

muckwarrior

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Marginally beaten by an aging Massa in his first season. Marginally beat pay driver and an absolute nobody Sirotkin in his second and beaten out the gate by perez in the next 2 seasons.

Not marginally beaten, well beaten. He got a podium in a race that Massa was set to win but for a mechanical. As a result the points difference was close.

Lance has graduated from being slow-as-f*ck to merely below average.