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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Zzippy

Continued on from previous threads. Title can be decided if we get better suggestions than the placeholder. We may run a poll.

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connachta

sprucemoose wrote: »

according to wikipedia hes 31 and 98kg, which is apparently 4kg less than stockdale and theyre both the same height.

so try again

So he's old

Let's do a Rob Kearney again and bring a 33 y/o FB to RWC it worked so well

thomond2006

There's enough available options that I probably wouldn't call up Zebo at this point.

sprucemoose

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Muscle weighs more than fat.

youre confusing weight (mass technically) with density

connachta wrote: »

So he's old
Let's do a Rob Kearney again and bring a 33 y/o FB to RWC it worked so well

in fairness, a 40 year old zebo would still be more of an attacking threat than a 20 year old kearney

Neil3030

Forget the Ireland squad, is Zebo eligible for a Lions call up, if Williams or Hogg get crocked?

Podge_irl

sprucemoose wrote: »

according to wikipedia hes 31 and 98kg, which is apparently 4kg less than stockdale and theyre both the same height.

so try again

That's 10kg more than me and I guarantee I'm fatter.

Former Former Former

Neil3030 wrote: »

Forget the Ireland squad, is Zebo eligible for a Lions call up, if Williams or Hogg get crocked?

He is eligible.

I can't see any way he'd be called up, however

[Deleted User]

Former Former Former wrote: »

He is eligible.

I can't see any way he'd be called up, however

Best back available he's not even a fullback he's made the position his own he could be brought in as a zeback

lawrencesummers

At this pint in his Irish career when compared to this point in Caelan Doris’s Irish career I’m of the opinion that Gav Coombes is far superior.

Now let me qualify this just so you all don’t have a meltdown.

Before Doris got capped for Ireland Im mature enough to say I was ignorant to his ability, I doubted his selection and was proven very wrong. He wasn’t as established a first team club player as many internationals in pivotal positions are, but he got his chance and he took it.

This season coombes has shown himself to be a top class Pro 14 league player, and his time in European games has shown he is well able for it. As an uncapped international when you compare both careers coombes is far ahead of Doris.

Now maybe coombes has hit his ceiling, maybe Doris is going to improve from here and gav isn’t. Maybe I win the lotto next week, Who knows interesting times ahead.

It’s clear the Munster mgt see him as CJ’s successor, hopefully the Irish mgt have the balls to reward the player who has easily had the best debut season in league and cup for a long time.

I look forward to seeing coombes at the back of the scrum at some stage over the summer.

What a season he has had.

Burkie1203

lawrencesummers wrote: »

At this pint in his Irish career when compared to this point in Caelan Doris’s Irish career I’m of the opinion that Gav Coombes is far superior.

Now let me qualify this just so you all don’t have a meltdown.

Before Doris got capped for Ireland Im mature enough to say I was ignorant to his ability, I doubted his selection and was proven very wrong. He wasn’t as established a first team club player as many internationals in pivotal positions are, but he got his chance and he took it.

This season coombes has shown himself to be a top class Pro 14 league player, and his time in European games has shown he is well able for it. As an uncapped international when you compare both careers coombes is far ahead of Doris.

Now maybe coombes has hit his ceiling, maybe Doris is going to improve from here and gav isn’t. Maybe I win the lotto next week, Who knows interesting times ahead.

It’s clear the Munster mgt see him as CJ’s successor, hopefully the Irish mgt have the balls to reward the player who has easily had the best debut season in league and cup for a long time.

I look forward to seeing coombes at the back of the scrum at some stage over the summer.

What a season he has had.

Doris and Coombes at 6 and 8
VDF at 7

Bench is interesting. Connors maybe.

Clegg

I mean Coombes is good and I probably agree that at Pro 14 level he's impressed more than Doris. But the latter has has proven himself at a higher level. Doris was Ireland's top performer in the Autumn Nations thingy and would have been our starting 8 in the Six Nations but for injury. And fwiw Doris has been Leinster's best player against Dragons tonight and consistently been one of our best since his return from injury a few weeks ago.

Good problem to have for Farrell or whomever actually coaches Ireland in the summer tests. We'll probably see Coombes and Doris combine in the same backrow.

lawrencesummers

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Doris and Coombes at 6 and 8
VDF at 7

Bench is interesting. Connors maybe.

Not sure how much coombes can do at 6, I think 8 might suit him more, but that’s a backrow what should be able for anything Japan or the US have.

lawrencesummers

Clegg wrote: »

I mean Coombes is good and I probably agree that at Pro 14 level he's impressed more than Doris. But the latter has has proven himself at a higher level. Doris was Ireland's top performer in the Autumn Nations thingy and would have been our starting 8 in the Six Nations but for injury. And fwiw Doris has been Leinster's best player against Dragons tonight and consistently been one of our best since his return from injury a few weeks ago.

Good problem to have for Farrell or whomever actually coaches Ireland in the summer tests. We'll probably see Coombes and Doris combine in the same backrow.

The latter has had the chance to prove himself at a higher level (and deservedly so)

There is no question about how high doris’s ceiling is, the interesting Thing to watch is how high coombes ceiling is.

clsmooth

Coombes is a beast. Seen him miss a few tackles though which is a concern when you get to international level. One notable one was against Racing in the Champions Cup this season. I assume that’s why he hasn’t got his first cap yet.

Locke_Lamora

lawrencesummers wrote: »

At this pint in his Irish career when compared to this point in Caelan Doris’s Irish career I’m of the opinion that Gav Coombes is far superior.

Now let me qualify this just so you all don’t have a meltdown.

Before Doris got capped for Ireland Im mature enough to say I was ignorant to his ability, I doubted his selection and was proven very wrong. He wasn’t as established a first team club player as many internationals in pivotal positions are, but he got his chance and he took it.

This season coombes has shown himself to be a top class Pro 14 league player, and his time in European games has shown he is well able for it. As an uncapped international when you compare both careers coombes is far ahead of Doris.

Now maybe coombes has hit his ceiling, maybe Doris is going to improve from here and gav isn’t. Maybe I win the lotto next week, Who knows interesting times ahead.

It’s clear the Munster mgt see him as CJ’s successor, hopefully the Irish mgt have the balls to reward the player who has easily had the best debut season in league and cup for a long time.

I look forward to seeing coombes at the back of the scrum at some stage over the summer.

What a season he has had.

Think it's worth pointing out that Doris essentially jumped straight from u20 to senior international whereas Coombes is breaking through at 23, so their careers as 'uncapped internationals' are difficult to compare.

Still feel that Doris is the much more complete player right now, then there's Conan who has been playing some of his best rugby for Ireland this year. Think Coombes definitely needs to be given minutes though, he brings size to the pack. Not too sure Conan or Doris have ever really excelled at 6 though so I'd prefer to play Bierne there probably and rotate the others.

The Parish King

Sounds as though the squad will be announced later this morning.

Hopefully the intention is to give the newer internationals who look to have very high ceilings (e.g. Kelleher, Baird, Casey and Doris), a chance to familiarise themselves with international rugby and even take on some leadership duties.

From a new cap perspective, I’m most excited to see Coombes, Hume and Balacoune - hopefully all three make the cut.

It’s also a chance to blood a new young 10, but I don’t think any of the options have really shown the form of 6 months ago due to injuries and the likes. I’d expect Healy or Byrne might get named in the squad without playing a huge amount, which seems like the right call as they’ll probably learn more from being in camp rather than 10 mins against a tired US side.

Poorside

Decent squad, delighted for Paul Boyle, kind of scratching my head as to my PoM is there

thomond2006

Dave Heffernan (Connacht/Buccaneers) 5 caps
Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 21 caps
Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 11 caps

Ed Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 4 caps
Peter Dooley (Leinster/Lansdowne) uncapped
Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians) 43 caps

Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 14 caps
Tom O’Toole (Ulster/Ballynahinch) uncapped
John Ryan (Munster/Cork Constitution) 23 caps

Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) 3 caps
Ultan Dillane (Connacht/Corinthians) 18 caps
Ross Molony (Leinster/UCD) uncapped
James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 35 caps
Fineen Wycherley (Munster/Young Munster) uncapped

Paul Boyle (Connacht/Lansdowne) uncapped
Gavin Coombes (Munster/Young Munster) uncapped
Caelan Doris (Leinster/UCD) 7 caps
Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 75 caps
Nick Timoney (Ulster/Banbridge) uncapped
Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 31 caps

Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon) 1 cap
Caolin Blade (Connacht/Galwegians) uncapped
Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 9 caps

Billy Burns (Ulster) 6 caps
Harry Byrne (Leinster/Lansdowne) uncapped
Joey Carbery (Munster/Clontarf) 22 caps

Stuart McCloskey (Ulster/Bangor) 4 caps
Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 34 caps
Tom Daly (Connacht/Lansdowne) uncapped
Chris Farrell (Munster/Young Munster) 14 caps

Andrew Conway (Munster/Garryowen) 24 caps
Shane Daly (Munster/Cork Constitution) 1 cap
Will Addison (Ulster/Enniskillen) 4 caps
Robert Baloucoune (Ulster/Enniskillen) uncapped
Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 11 caps
Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 29 caps
Jacob Stockdale (Ulster/Lurgan) 34 caps

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2021/06/14/ireland-squad-confirmed-for-vodafone-summer-series/

stephen_n

Few interesting calls, probably more for depth and experience bringing in Dooley and Moloney. No Hume is a bit disappointing but Daly probably deserves a spot in the squads after the season he has had. Lots of uncapped players, with a good balance of experience, can’t ask more than that.

No Ross Byrne is a bit of an odd one. Don’t think Carberry deserves to be there based on his performances since coming back.

lawrencesummers

Well done Tom Daly, Fineen and Blade.
Well deserved call ups.

Pity it’s only two games they are due to play. Maybe a third fixture should have been arranged to give more gametime against the like of the English or other home nations.

yerrahbah

Wasn't expecting such an inexperienced squad.

OneLungDavy

POM is the only other 7 in the squad apart from VDF. Thought Penny might have been given a chance but POM hasn't played a lot recently for Ireland. Glad to see Blade included, still no McGrath is interesting.

Richie_Rich89

Thornbury, Josh Murphy and Hume are the ones I think should be in there. Wycherley's a bit small for lock at international level, but would make a good blindside.

If they don't deploy Wycherley at 6 then there's a real lack of a big, hard 6 in the mould of a Jerome Kaino. Boyle, Coombes, Doris and Timoney are all better used as footballing 8s and O'Mahony should stick to openside.

John Ryan and McCloskey seem like dead end selections a bit. Is Martin Moore injured? Based on how little McCloskey has actually been used over the years, I think it would have been better to consider Farrell as a 12 and have Hume in there.

Clegg

stephen_n wrote: »

Few interesting calls, probably more for depth and experience bringing in Dooley and Moloney. No Hume is a bit disappointing but Daly probably deserves a spot in the squads after the season he has had. Lots of uncapped players, with a good balance of experience, can’t ask more than that.

No Ross Byrne is a bit of an odd one. Don’t think Carberry deserves to be there based on his performances since coming back.

I think there's a good chance that Ross Byrne is carrying a knock, but had to play as every other 10 at Leinster was unavailable. He needs some time off.

As for Carbery, I think they're desperate to give him as many chances as possible. Was earmarked as Sextons successor a long time ago. Makes sense that they don't want to abandon that right now. He may eventually improve with more time at 10.

Bazzo

Delighted for Blade, Boyle and Daly from a Connacht perspective, good form being rewarded. Boyle especially in such a competitive position, but has really put his hand up.

molloyjh

No Hume is the one that jumps out to me. I'd have had him as a more like for like replacement for Ringrose. That said Addison can fill that role too if need be.

Is EOS injured? LH is looking more and more like a problem position ATM.

Otherwise little to argue with in that squad. Dooley, O'Toole, Molony, Whycherley, Boyle, Coombes, Timoney, Blade, H Byrne, T Daly and Balacoune all brought in with E Byrne, Baird, Doris and Casey all there to build on their experience. Plenty of new or almost new faces.

Former Former Former

Wow, did not expect quite such an inexperienced squad, but great to see it.

Timoney, Dooley and Wycherley really jump out as surprise picks.

Jump_In_Jack

molloyjh wrote: »

No Hume is the one that jumps out to me. I'd have had him as a more like for like replacement for Ringrose. That said Addison can fill that role too if need be.

Is EOS injured? LH is looking more and more like a problem position ATM.

Otherwise little to argue with in that squad. Dooley, O'Toole, Molony, Whycherley, Boyle, Coombes, Timoney, Blade, H Byrne, T Daly and Balacoune all brought in with E Byrne, Baird, Doris and Casey all there to build on their experience. Plenty of new or almost new faces.

Shane Daly is there

Clegg

I wouldn't have brought Conway. But I suppose there aren't many wings around who have out their hand up recently. Would have liked to see Jimmy O'Briens form get rewarded, but he's a 15 rather than a wing and we already have two better fullbacks in there.

b.gud

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Thornbury, Josh Murphy and Hume are the ones I think should be in there. Wycherley's a bit small for lock at international level, but would make a good blindside.

I believe Thornbury is injured but it's hard to know for sure as Connacht are quite poor at releasing injury updates

Clegg

No James Lowe either. That back injury must be worse than initially reported.

Ruddock has the worst luck with injuries as well. Was in the form of his life this season