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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Continued on from previous threads. Title can be decided if we get better suggestions than the placeholder. We may run a poll.

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TheG0AT

Surely a game to give fringe guys a chances and rest frontline players.

We've nothing to learn from picking guys that have been in there before. Give Casey, Healy, Blade and some of the recent under 20's teams a chance. Combes surely has to get a chance.

ionadnapóca

Dont know
3rd July is game v Jap.
Should be this wk.

sydthebeat

TheG0AT wrote: »

Surely a game to give fringe guys a chances and rest frontline players.

We've nothing to learn from picking guys that have been in there before. Give Casey, Healy, Blade and some of the recent under 20's teams a chance. Combes surely has to get a chance.

young lads will be given a chance... but there wont be 15 players with less than 5 caps each named, so expectations should be tempered.

id like to see different combinations or experience and inexperience used ...... such as hume with ringrose, a back 3 of keenan, balacoune and earls.... casey and sexton... james ryan and Wycherley... etc

sydthebeat

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Dont know
3rd July is game v Jap.
Should be this wk.

it wont be before the last round of the care bear cup

TheG0AT

sydthebeat wrote: »

young lads will be given a chance... but there wont be 15 players with less than 5 caps each named, so expectations should be tempered.

id like to see different combinations or experience and inexperience used ...... such as hume with ringrose, a back 3 of keenan, balacoune and earls.... casey and sexton... james ryan and Wycherley... etc

That's fair

sprucemoose

sydthebeat wrote: »

young lads will be given a chance... but there wont be 15 players with less than 5 caps each named, so expectations should be tempered.

id like to see different combinations or experience and inexperience used ...... such as hume with ringrose, a back 3 of keenan, balacoune and earls.... casey and sexton... james ryan and Wycherley... etc

nail on the head, in fairness japan and usa are handy enough so we cant just throw out any team against either. really hope we see someone like haley at 15 for one of the games, keenans been great but apart from him stocks are pretty low. ideally id have carbery there but i wont hold my breath....

Jump_In_Jack

If I could pick the team for the Japan (Jul 3rd) and USA (Jul 10th) matches, I'd go with a ban on anyone over 28 with a view to getting a proper look at the next generation.

So,

1. Ed Byrne
2. Rónan Kelleher
3. Tom O'Toole
4. Ultan Dillane
5. Gavin Thornbury
6. Ryan Baird
7. Van der Flier
8. Gavin Coombes
9. Caolin Blade
10. Joey Carbery
11. Jacob Stockdale
12. Stuart McCloskey
13. James Hume
14. Robert Baloucoune
15. Hugo Keenan

connachta

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

If I could pick the team for the Japan (Jul 3rd) and USA (Jul 10th) matches, I'd go with a ban on anyone over 28 with a view to getting a proper look at the next generation.

So,

1. Ed Byrne
2. Rónan Kelleher
3. Tom O'Toole
4. Ultan Dillane
5. Gavin Thornbury
6. Ryan Baird
7. Van der Flier
8. Gavin Coombes
9. Caolin Blade
10. Joey Carbery
11. Jacob Stockdale
12. Stuart McCloskey
13. James Hume
14. Robert Baloucoune
15. Hugo Keenan

Put Daly in it and we rather agree

AbusesToilets

We definitely drew the short straw with the international games this summer

sprucemoose

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

If I could pick the team for the Japan (Jul 3rd) and USA (Jul 10th) matches, I'd go with a ban on anyone over 28 with a view to getting a proper look at the next generation.

So,

1. Ed Byrne
2. Rónan Kelleher
3. Tom O'Toole
4. Ultan Dillane
5. Gavin Thornbury
6. Ryan Baird
7. Van der Flier
8. Gavin Coombes
9. Caolin Blade
10. Joey Carbery
11. Jacob Stockdale
12. Stuart McCloskey
13. James Hume
14. Robert Baloucoune
15. Hugo Keenan

very little/no experience in that team though.add 2/3 experienced forwards, an experienced half back and 1/2 experienced backs and theres a team there. japan beat ireland the last time they played lets not forget and usa caught out scotland a few years ago when they threw out half a team so we cant just put out any old team

molloyjh

TheG0AT wrote: »

Surely a game to give fringe guys a chances and rest frontline players.

We've nothing to learn from picking guys that have been in there before. Give Casey, Healy, Blade and some of the recent under 20's teams a chance. Combes surely has to get a chance.

Giving 15 young lads a run out isn't a great idea. What Ireland will need to do is identify the areas that we need to blood someone and the players who have been demanding selection. Then figure out how to give those guys the best chance of succeeding.

Say we want to blood a TH for example, which we'll need to given Furlong and Porter aren't available. We'll likely need to put in at least 1 other experienced front row and an experienced TH lock. So we may chose to play Healy in 1 game in order to give O'Toole (I'm assuming) a better platform to perform off.

To my mind the areas that most require blooding are 1, 3, 9, 10 and 13. Add to that guys like Coombes and Balacoune, who both demand selection, and lock where we will be missing Henderson and Roux is out of the picture so will need to consider who we look to there as well and I think we have a pretty broad range of areas to look at, given it is only 2 games.

So, EOS at LH and TOT at TH are the inexperienced guys we should be looking at in the front row. Baird will continue to get a look in at lock and we might see another young lock involved (Dillane will likely be involved too). In the back row we're pretty well stocked, but Coombes will almost certainly be heavily involved.

At half backs Casey will continue to get time but we are stuck at 10. Harry Byrne is injured, Healy hasn't been performing and neither has Carbery. Ross Byrne and Billy Burns are both available but aren't exactly the future at 10. I do wonder, given our situation, whether Conor Fitz might get a call up. It's highly unlikely, but may not be the worst idea in the world, even if he's just in camp.

In the backs then we are stuck at 12. McCloskey is the next cab so will probably start. Ringrose is first choice 13 but I would like to see Hume get some time in the centre. Maybe McCloskey-Ringrose for Japan and Ringrose-Hume for USA? Then Balacoune has to feature in some capacity on the wing.

So that's EOS, TOT, Baird, Coombes, Casey, Hume and Balacoune or something similar. 7 new/young guys would be a good return, especially when we consider that Harry Byrne would likely have been involved too but for his injuries. Guys like Kelleher, Doris and Keenan are all pretty new/young too.

Former Former Former

molloyjh wrote: »

In the backs then we are stuck at 12. McCloskey is the next cab so will probably start. Ringrose is first choice 13 but I would like to see Hume get some time in the centre. Maybe McCloskey-Ringrose for Japan and Ringrose-Hume for USA?

You're forgetting Farrell (unless he's injured?) who's next in line

TBH, I would probably move on from McCloskey at this point. He's a decent player but just not in the coach's plans so let's look at someone else.

molloyjh

Former Former Former wrote: »

You're forgetting Farrell (unless he's injured?) who's next in line

TBH, I would probably move on from McCloskey at this point. He's a decent player but just not in the coach's plans so let's look at someone else.

Didn't think of Farrell at 12 tbh, but he hasn't exactly been lighting it up at Munster. I agree we should be moving on from McCloskey, but to who? I don't think there's any stand out young 12s out there, is there? Effectively we just need a fall back 12 while Henshaw and Aki are away.

Jump_In_Jack

molloyjh wrote: »

Didn't think of Farrell at 12 tbh, but he hasn't exactly been lighting it up at Munster. I agree we should be moving on from McCloskey, but to who? I don't think there's any stand out young 12s out there, is there? Effectively we just need a fall back 12 while Henshaw and Aki are away.

Tom Daly is the obvious answer to your question there.

Former Former Former

molloyjh wrote: »

Didn't think of Farrell at 12 tbh, but he hasn't exactly been lighting it up at Munster. I agree we should be moving on from McCloskey, but to who? I don't think there's any stand out young 12s out there, is there? Effectively we just need a fall back 12 while Henshaw and Aki are away.

The Connacht lads won't like that...

I agree re (Chris) Farrell, he's no better than McCloskey IMO but (Andy) Farrell seems to like him.

Wouldn't mind seeing Ringrose at 12 with Hume at 13. There's Frawley too but he's perma-injured.

Burkie1203

Former Former Former wrote: »

Wouldn't mind seeing Ringrose at 12 with Hume at 13. There's Frawley too but he's perma-injured.

Daly Balacoune Keenan back 3 with that midfield.

Casey and Ross at half back.

I'd go with a strong enough pack.

Kilcoyne Kelleher Bealham Ryan Baird Doris VDF Boyle

molloyjh

Former Former Former wrote: »

The Connacht lads won't like that...

I agree re (Chris) Farrell, he's no better than McCloskey IMO but (Andy) Farrell seems to like him.

Wouldn't mind seeing Ringrose at 12 with Hume at 13. There's Frawley too but he's perma-injured.

I don't think the idea of bringing in a 27 year old Tom Daly is the solution tbh. With Aki with the Lions and SOB heading to Exeter then that's just Daly remaining (Tom Farrell is injured AFAIK). Daly has been good for Connacht, but he's not Test quality. The reality is, I don't think we have any young 12s making a case right now. So let's just go with the guy who has a bit of experience and see what we can do elsewhere.

molloyjh

Worth noting that Addison should be available for the USA game too actually....

AbusesToilets

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Daly Balacoune Keenan back 3 with that midfield.

Casey and Ross at half back.

I'd go with a strong enough pack.

Kilcoyne Kelleher Bealham Ryan Baird Doris VDF Boyle

I'd swap Blade for casey there.

Jump_In_Jack

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think the idea of bringing in a 27 year old Tom Daly is the solution tbh. With Aki with the Lions and SOB heading to Exeter then that's just Daly remaining (Tom Farrell is injured AFAIK). Daly has been good for Connacht, but he's not Test quality. The reality is, I don't think we have any young 12s making a case right now. So let's just go with the guy who has a bit of experience and see what we can do elsewhere.

Of the provinces, we have a few with promise that could play 12, sorted by age:
Dan Goggin (26) Munster
Conor O'Brien (25) Leinster
Sammy Arnold (25) Connacht
Tommy O'Brien (23) Leinster
James Hume (22) Ulster

arsebiscuits1

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Of the provinces, we have a few with promise that could play 12, sorted by age:
Dan Goggin (26) Munster
Conor O'Brien (25) Leinster
Sammy Arnold (25) Connacht
Tommy O'Brien (23) Leinster
James Hume (22) Ulster

Peter Robb too if that Poor kid could stay fit.

He's as likely as Arnold or Goggin at this point I'd say

TomsOnTheRoof

Can't wait to see Coombes in green. First name on the team sheet for me in terms of new caps.

Wegians89

Eos
Kelleher
Bealham
Thornbury
Ryan
Coombes
Vdf
Doris
Jgp
Bryne
Stockdale
Daly
Ringrose
Balacoune
Keenan

Herring
Kilcoyne
Tot
Baird
Pom
Blade
Carbery
S Daly

Dubinusa

I think T.O.B will be a future capped international. He looks to be a real gem. Hume at 12 would also be worth a look. I don't see Frawley being as durable as Hume. McCloskey should probably be moved on. He's been on the fringe for a long time. Daly is a possible short term option, but I would go with a younger player.

TRC10

15-Keenan/Zebo
14-Baloucoune/Larmour
13-Hume
12-Ringrose
11-Stockdale
10-Carbery
9-Casey/Blade
1-Kilcoyne (+Wycherley in the squad as we badly need to blood some LHs)
2-Kelleher
3-O'Toole
4-Dillane
5-Ryan
6-POM/Baird
7-VDF
8-Doris/Coombes

We should definitely be giving Sexton, Earls and Healy the summer off ahead of their last seasons.

We badly need to blood a young LH, probably Whycherly. Killer and Healy are starting to get on and will be 35/36 at the WC.

Baloucone and Coombes are 2 players who definitely have earned their chance.

I'd also have H.Byrne subbing for Joey. Burns and Ross.B aren't at the level required so there's no point in investing in them when the game time could go to Harry.B

molloyjh

TRC10 wrote: »

15-Keenan/Zebo
14-Baloucoune/Larmour
13-Hume
12-Ringrose
11-Stockdale
10-Carbery
9-Casey/Blade
1-Kilcoyne (+Wycherley in the squad as we badly need to blood some LHs)
2-Kelleher
3-O'Toole
4-Dillane
5-Ryan
6-POM/Baird
7-VDF
8-Doris/Coombes

We should definitely be giving Sexton, Earls and Healy the summer off ahead of their last seasons.

We badly need to blood a young LH, probably Whycherly. Killer and Healy are starting to get on and will be 35/36 at the WC.

Baloucone and Coombes are 2 players who definitely have earned their chance.

I'd also have H.Byrne subbing for Joey. Burns and Ross.B aren't at the level required so there's no point in investing in them when the game time could go to Harry.B

Harry Byrne is injured. Pretty sure Whycherley is too.

Stout Warrior

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think the idea of bringing in a 27 year old Tom Daly is the solution tbh. With Aki with the Lions and SOB heading to Exeter then that's just Daly remaining (Tom Farrell is injured AFAIK). Daly has been good for Connacht, but he's not Test quality. The reality is, I don't think we have any young 12s making a case right now. So let's just go with the guy who has a bit of experience and see what we can do elsewhere.

I think Daly is well worth a go at test level. He has shown enough for me to put him ahead of both Farrell’s and Hume McCliskey this season.

People will use the fact he wasn’t played at Leinster lazily to back their point he’s not up to it but he has moved up in my view in terms of performance and has consistency.

Has he done enough to unseat Farrell - probably not and that is the benchmark by which he will be selected.

If he can bag a half dozen eye catching big games he might raise the question in Farrells eyes. But knowing Farrells crippling conservatism he won’t take the risk of playing a cast off in many peoples eyes.

thomond2006

molloyjh wrote: »

Harry Byrne is injured. Pretty sure Whycherley is too.

Wycherley returned for the As last week.

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

Wycherley returned for the As last week.

I wonder will he see some game time this weekend so. Its a dead rubber and it might boost his chances of a call up if he plays.

TRC10

molloyjh wrote: »

Harry Byrne is injured. Pretty sure Whycherley is too.

Is he ruled out for the summer? If so, I didn't know that. Burns and Carbery then for me.

If Whycherly is out then maybe take Reid along with Killer and Byrne.