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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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jusmeig

fits wrote: »

Sneem is miles away from Dingle!

True, I don't know why I suggested Sneem...Covid fatigue maybe.

MJohnston

fits wrote: »

Just browsing this thread. As a total newbie to electric cars - all the different types of chargers and AC vs DC and various powered units. It’s very confusing.

I can see why people find it off putting.

It's going to sort itself out in the next couple of years. The charging connector standard in the EU is going to be CCS, and as you can see from discussion here, eCars are already starting to favour it.

That means there will be less and less charging connector confusion.

And AC vs DC doesn't really matter, all that really matters is the kW rating of each charging point.

I do think it will help widespread adoption if units start being expressed in relatable ways. EVs rarely state their battery capacity in terms of kWh, you have to go searching for those details. And electrical units are confusing at their core already — the lack of a time component in the kW rating is going to be incredibly confusing for a lot of people.

I doubt charging will reach a point, any time soon, of being like fuel where you don't need to care about the cars tank capacity or the pumping speed of the fuel pumps. So someone probably needs to figure out a way of reducing battery capacity and charging speeds to more relatable units.

AndyBoBandy

fits wrote: »

Just browsing this thread. As a total newbie to electric cars - all the different types of chargers and AC vs DC and various powered units. It’s very confusing.

I can see why people find it off putting.

At first, it does seem a little off putting, as I myself was a noob and knew nothing about charging and all the jargon associated with it, but you pick it up very quickly once you have a vested interest in it all.

Basically there are 2 types of charging for EV's;

AC Charging (slow charging) & DC Charging (fast charging)

AC Charging (AC = Alternating Current)
This type of charging uses the cars onboard AC charger to slowly charge the car at a charging speed/rate governed by the onboard charger in the car (typically between 7kW & 11kW).
When charging at home overnight, you will be AC charging the car using a Type 2 cable (home chargers can come either tethered (meaning the Type 2 cable is permanently attached to the charger), or un-tethered (meaning you'd use a separate Type 2 cable (most likely the one you carry around in the boot for use when public AC charging)).
When AC charging in public (at say a charge point located at Tesco like below), you will plug in & use your own 'Type 2' cable that would/should be supplied with the car.

DC Charging (Direct Current)
this is 'fast charging', and typically something you'd do when on a journey when you need to get as much charge into the battery as fast as possible to continue on your journey.
There are 2 types of DC 'fast charging' plug
CHAdeMO - This is used by Nissan Leaf EV's, and apparently a new Lexus EV will use it (so it's the standard on Japanese EV's).
CCS - This is what everyone else uses from VW to Kia to Audi to Hyundai to Tesla.

The CCS plug is basically a Type 2 plug with an additional 2 pins at the bottom to allow Direct Current straight into the battery

DC charging speeds can go from anything from 1kW up to 350kW on CCS, and up to 62kW on CHAdeMO (DC charging speeds typically taper down as the battery gets closer to full.

When DC charging, the charging cable is attached to the charge unit (i.e. you don't use your own AC cable, but use the charger's attached DC cable/plug).
Below is an ESB DC 'fast charger' with both CCS & CHAdeMO plug on it.

1608143931064_1608143959.jpg--.jpg?1608143959000

1608143931064_1608143959.jpg--.jpg?1608143959000

ELM327

Great AC photo andy

AndyBoBandy

ELM327 wrote: »

Great AC photo andy

was that yours?? It was the first photo of one of the new Tesco AC units Google threw back at me....

ELM327

Yes, that was back in the day when a) I still had severus and b) I had a hack for free charging on ecars

innrain

3 chargers online @ J14 4 CCS
attachment.php?attachmentid=555398&stc=1&d=1623235835

MJohnston

Andy I think you may have just proven fits' point

ELM327

Yup, looks like there's one limited to 250a or so (200a*800v only gives 160kW so the limit is 250a) and will only give 100kW on 400v cars.
Only one HPC and the rest 50kW??

Ecars had to get some "usual ecars crap" in there somewhere. Regards, Anna.

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

Yup, looks like there's one limited to 250a or so (200a*800v only gives 160kW so the limit is 250a) and will only give 100kW on 400v cars.
Only one HPC and the rest 50kW??

Ecars had to get some "usual ecars crap" in there somewhere. Regards, Anna.

Huh?

Only 1 of the HPC is online (temporarily i'd guess while they setup). 1 socket provides up to 200kW, the other up to 350kW. Not sure how they're getting those numbers though. 920V at 350A = 322kW

The other 2 units are:
1. The old triple head unit which is to be removed after this install is complete
2. Thew new triple head unit with untethered 22kW AC.

It'll be interesting to see how load balancing is handled on those HPC given they're unbalanced plugs.

Also, given the ~350V battery pack in the ID.4, does that mean it can at best get 122kW @ 350A? Not sure how any rumoured update from VW can unlock 175kW charging.

ELM327

Oh ok I thought that was the finished set.

The limitation at 350kW Ionity HPC is 500a so the max a 350V car could get is 175kW.

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

Oh ok I thought that was the finished set.

The limitation at 350kW Ionity HPC is 500a so the max a 350V car could get is 175kW.

Cool. So basically, if VW come looking for money to upgrade to 175kW charging, it's pointless in Ireland. Pity these units are limited to 350A.

Reality is speeds won't be anything near 200kW or 350kW.
350V cars get 122kW
400V cars get 140kW
800V cars get 280kW

Aren't the other HPC Ecars use 400A?

zg3409

jusmeig wrote: »

If you go into the Sneem hotel there is a Tesla Destination charger.
In a previous life I called the Hotel and asked could I charge (my Ioniq), arrived plugged in and charged for free.

I've no idea if this has been nerfed, but its worth a try.
Ive been travelling to Sneem for the last 3 years in an EV and charging is very challenging. The AC unit in Sneem is an old yoke and very hit and miss when it was working.

According to plugshare sneem hotel has removed one of the Tesla chargers and now has non Tesla where you provide your own cable.

Black_Knight

Oh, just noticed ECars have classified these differently.
They rate chargers as "Slow" (typically 3rd party units regardless of speed), "Semi-fast" (SCP to you and I), and "Fast" which has been any fast unit including any currently live HPC (the delta units at kilcullen/Athlone, Portlaoise etc).

This unit at Mayfield is classified as ""chargingSpeedId": "ULTRA_FAST"", with the 200kW head classified as "FAST" but the 350Kw head classified as "ULTRA_FAST". No price difference, but it'll come i'm sure.

https://myaccount.esbecars.com/stationFacade/findStationById?stationId=2029

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

Cool. So basically, if VW come looking for money to upgrade to 175kW charging, it's pointless in Ireland. Pity these units are limited to 350A.

Reality is speeds won't be anything near 200kW or 350kW.
350V cars get 122kW
400V cars get 140kW
800V cars get 280kW

Aren't the other HPC Ecars use 400A?

Yes but they are labelled "150kW".

Realistically the max charge speed seen on a 350kW charger currently will be 270-280kW which the Taycan and etronGT would get.

Why do you say they are limited to 350A though, is that confirmed? Pretty poor if so.

innrain

More units added 8 CCSes

First hub is online. I'm @ 22% 60km drive I shall be there @ 6-8 % hmm
Edit. Sorry I rushed it they're gone now.

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but they are labelled "150kW".

Realistically the max charge speed seen on a 350kW charger currently will be 270-280kW which the Taycan and etronGT would get.

Why do you say they are limited to 350A though, is that confirmed? Pretty poor if so.

peposhi wrote: »

Pics.
Should be all live by the end of the week.
Old unit should be removed straight after.

the_amazing_raisin

innrain wrote: »

More units added 8 CCSes First hub is online. I'm @ 22% 60km drive I shall be there @ 6-8 % hmm
Edit. Sorry I rushed it they're gone now.

Yeah I've booked Friday off, might go for a drive down that way

jusmeig

innrain wrote: »

3 chargers online @ J14 4 CCS

I only see C7T79 + C5HD3 online right now?

Black_Knight

The more I look at those "Ultra fast" units the more disappointing they are. The slim cable on them is only rated for 200A, so 80kW max for a 400V car.

Would I be right in thinking that given a higher SOC or a colder battery, it's amps that you're constrained by? So if I arrived at Mayfield with 40% battery in my ID4, i'm realistically not going to get anywhere near 100kW, so whether I choose the 200A or 350A supply i'll get the same rate of charge?

Also, have ECars mixed up Amps with kW when naming those plugs.
attachment.php?attachmentid=555398&stc=1&d=1623235835

At 920V they should be like 184kW and 322kW, no?

liamog

An indicated nominal voltage is usually designed with a rated voltage of +/- 10%. If a spec plate indicates 250V - 920V it means it's allowed to operate anywhere between 225V to 1012V.

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

An indicated nominal voltage is usually designed with a rated voltage of +/- 10%. If a spec plate indicates 250V - 920V it means it's allowed to operate anywhere between 225V to 1012V.

Cool. Thanks for the knowledge. Not that 1012V is any good to any car out there.

liamog

For the next few years, I don't think anyone will be limited by the charging capability of these chargers.
The education piece of when to use the 100kW vs 175kW cable (for 400V cars) will no doubt cause some confusion due to them being labelled for 800V cars.
I can imagine a confused ID.4 driver wondering why they are stuck at 80kW on the 200kW cables but can go higher on the 350kW cable.

liamog

Black_Knight wrote: »

Cool. Thanks for the knowledge. Not that 1012V is any good to any car out there.

As an aside, voltage in mainland Europe used to be 220V and the UK used 240V. The standardised voltage of 230V +/- 23V means that nothing had to change.

cannco253

Isn’t the Model 3 also 350v battery, so will have the same speeds and issues as the ID.4 here?

Would make it more worthwhile to use the Tesla superchargers if you can.

innrain

jusmeig wrote: »

I only see C7T79 + C5HD3 online right now?

And we're back to one. Probably the old one got taken away. Glad I didn't drive there yesterday

ELM327

cannco253 wrote: »

Isn’t the Model 3 also 350v battery, so will have the same speeds and issues as the ID.4 here?

Would make it more worthwhile to use the Tesla superchargers if you can.

Model 3 is 350-400v , same as most EVs.

At the low end you're going to be limited here too. Model 3 can draw up to 670a (which it does on V3 superchargers) so realistically here you're halving the amps and therefore halving the speed in kW

liamog

It's not specific to eCars, most charging equipment works the same way.
Here's the charging curve (from Fastned) on a 150kW charger. You'll need to make sure you use the 350kW cable when starting your charge below 50%.

VW_ID.4_82kWh_Chargecurve_Fastned.png

Here's a good resource if you want to see what any specific car should do.

https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/sections/115000180588-Vehicles-charging-tips

Black_Knight

Next Ultra fast unit being installed at the moment it seems:
https://myaccount.esbecars.com/stationFacade/findStationById?stationId=2030

Dual CCS again, same 200kW/350kW configuration again.
Edit: They either switched the ids, or I made a mistake. Todays install is for a CHAdeMO/CCS unit. 50kW only for CHAdeMO though, yet charging 37c/kWh
Looks like the old triple head is gone from the app now.

MJohnston

The ****ing M7 again!