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Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

ancapailldorcha

This thread is a continuation of the megathreads for discussing the end of the presidency of Donald Trump, the aftermath such as any legal cases brought against him, his legacy as president and any matters which relate to these subjects.

Please keep discussion civil and constructive and bear the charter in mind before posting.

Update 23/9/20:

Threadbanned users:

Outlaw Pete
everlast75
mcmoustache
lawrencesummers
RIGOLO
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briany

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

It’s Don jr time. With Sr. As vice

I don't get the impression that Don Jr. is all that seriously interested in getting in that particular race at this point in his life, having only taken over the family enterprise a few years ago. But I think that Congresspeople can own businesses in addition to their role in Washington. You could have Don Jr. in the House and Ivanka in the Senate. I'm not saying this a nice thought, but from the Trump perspective, it would be achievable.

amandstu

briany wrote: »

I don't get the impression that Don Jr. is all that seriously interested in getting in that particular race at this point in his life, having only taken over the family enterprise a few years ago. But I think that Congresspeople can own businesses in addition to their role in Washington. You could have Don Jr. in the House and Ivanka in the Senate. I'm not saying this a nice thought, but from the Trump perspective, it would be achievable.

That is true Caligula had his horse made a Senator:)

gimli2112

amandstu wrote: »

That is true Caligula had his horse made a Senator:)

I think it's unfair on Caligula to make any comparison between the two.

Itssoeasy

CNN has new audio of a 2019 phone call from Rudy Giuliani to the Ukrainian government about pushing the Ukraine meddling in the 2016 election and to open investigations into the bidens.

EltonJohn69

Itssoeasy wrote: »

CNN has new audio of a 2019 phone call from Rudy Giuliani to the Ukrainian government about pushing the Ukraine meddling in the 2016 election and to open investigations into the bidens.

....... but what about Hillary’s emails ?

Itssoeasy

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

....... but what about Hillary’s emails ?

Speaking of emails it seems that mark meadows the former chief of staff was in contact with the acting AG about launching an investigation into a theory that Italian satellites in some way were able to alter voting machines to change votes from trump to Biden. It’s ****ing nuts.

amandstu

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Speaking of emails it seems that mark meadows the former chief of staff was in contact with the acting AG about launching an investigation into a theory that Italian satellites in some way were able to alter voting machines to change votes from trump to Biden. It’s ****ing nuts.

Have they launched an investigation into whether there was any collusion between Biden junior and the mysterious unexplained sightings of fast moving alien aircraft over American skies recently?

Muahahaha

Tell me how wrote: »

It was said on here many times last year that if the lead up to elections in a country in Africa or South America had been surrounded with the same concerns about the attempts to influence the result as we saw in the US, the UN and America itself would have been talking about sending observers to ensure everything was above board.

Just on South America I was reading how one of the subscribers to the Trump playbook Jair Bolsonaro has recently relaxed laws that made it difficult to buy guns whilst also verbally encouraging his supporters to go out and buy them. His supporters have been arming themselves to the teeth and forming militias much like is seen in the US with the OathKeepers, 3%ers, etc. Bolsonaro has also repeated Trumps claims that the 2020 US election was stolen. His own re-election is due next year so it seems he is already laying the groundwork for what happens in the aftermath if he loses it which at the moment looks likely, his approval rating is in the tank at just 24%.

Interestingly Trumps first major milestone to make his comeback is having a good showing from candidates who he endorses and campaigns for during the mid term elections, which are scheduled for November 4th 2022. Just 4 weeks prior on October 8th Brazil goes to the polls to make a decision on Bolsonaro. If he loses its pretty certain that he will try to overthrow the election results and some sort of Captiol riot event in Brazil seems inevitable. That would make for a very interesting backdrop to the US mid terms just a few weeks later.

PropJoe10

I've said it before, but it continues to be quite remarkable how far these people were willing to go to indulge the idiotic whims of Trump, a born liar and utter spoofer. There is literally not a spine between the lot of them.

briany

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I've said it before, but it continues to be quite remarkable how far these people were willing to go to indulge the idiotic whims of Trump, a born liar and utter spoofer. There is literally not a spine between the lot of them.

I was listening to Dave Mcwilliams' podcast a while ago and he made an interesting point on the difference between left and right wing politics. The right is much more concerned with power for the sake of power and much less concerned with ideological purity than the left is. It seems to be bearing out with the current rise of populism and demagoguery - the more traditional Conservative politicians are not speaking out, but are going along with it all, for the most part.

expectationlost

Gen. Charles Flynn, Brother of Former National Security Adviser, Takes Reins of US Army Pacific https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/06/07/gen-charles-flynn-brother-of-former-national-security-adviser-takes-reins-of-us-army-pacific.html https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1402238141365473287

Manic Moran

expectationlost wrote: »

Gen. Charles Flynn, Brother of Former National Security Adviser, Takes Reins of US Army Pacific https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/06/07/gen-charles-flynn-brother-of-former-national-security-adviser-takes-reins-of-us-army-pacific.html https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1402238141365473287

To my knowledge, he's a good officer and experienced in the area, to include a tour of duty as deputy commander US Army Pacific. His most recent position in DC had him running the Army's reconfiguration, announced Oct last year, which seems to be being well received.

Any reason to believe he's not sufficiently competent and experienced enough to do the job beyond the fact that, like a lot of folks in the Army (given what happened the last time), he was twice shy over sending troops in to DC for more law enforcement?

Tell me how

Manic Moran wrote: »

To my knowledge, he's a good officer and experienced in the area, to include a tour of duty as deputy commander US Army Pacific. His most recent position in DC had him running the Army's reconfiguration, announced Oct last year, which seems to be being well received.

Any reason to believe he's not sufficiently competent and experienced enough to do the job beyond the fact that, like a lot of folks in the Army (given what happened the last time), he was twice shy over sending troops in to DC for more law enforcement?

If only there was an investigation in to what happened that day and just who made decisions and when and why they did so such reasons might be uncovered.

But, as we have seen that isn't going to happen.

That aside, given the importance of such positions and the sentiments expressed by his brother, I don't think it would be a stretch to consider that someone could either be of a similar mindset to them, or that they might not act entirely objectively should they need to in a situation in which their bother was either involved or had strong opinions on.

expectationlost

Manic Moran wrote: »

To my knowledge, he's a good officer and experienced in the area, to include a tour of duty as deputy commander US Army Pacific. His most recent position in DC had him running the Army's reconfiguration, announced Oct last year, which seems to be being well received.

Any reason to believe he's not sufficiently competent and experienced enough to do the job beyond the fact that, like a lot of folks in the Army (given what happened the last time), he was twice shy over sending troops in to DC for more law enforcement?

putting optics before need

Brian?

If you have access to CNN US, good time to watch. They're about to play the audio of Rudy twisting then arm of the Ukraine government to announce an investigation into Biden

Manic Moran

expectationlost wrote: »

putting optics before need

They were "needed" the last time as well.

It's not exactly a condemnation to have a senior officer who doesn't like the idea of military personnel getting involved in domestic law enforcement.

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

They were "needed" the last time as well.

It's not exactly a condemnation to have a senior officer who doesn't like the idea of military personnel getting involved in domestic law enforcement.

We can discuss this around to death.

The main facts are that the capitol was not well defended from a violent mob that was known to be travelling to DC for that day and had many posts about being ready for violence available online. Certainly no guarantee of violence and no one should start it but a good reason to be prepared. Potentially a better prepared second line of defense could have been an option, presumably law enforcement know of a better way.

They got far too close to their intended targets of elected officials. They got access to elected officials offices. This provides the issue of security for potentially sensitive documents.

You can defend or condemn individuals based on what we know but we do know that someone messed up but we don't seem to have a complete knowledge of what went on.

Turns out what we really need is an investigation into what happened. Until then if someone who is voicing a preference for violent insurrection has a brother in a position of power that day then they will have a cloud hanging over them until a proper investigation is done.

Itssoeasy

briany wrote: »

I was listening to Dave Mcwilliams' podcast a while ago and he made an interesting point on the difference between left and right wing politics. The right is much more concerned with power for the sake of power and much less concerned with ideological purity than the left is. It seems to be bearing out with the current rise of populism and demagoguery - the more traditional Conservative politicians are not speaking out, but are going along with it all, for the most part.

Which was said out loud by former Secretary of State James baker in a documentary about the 2000 US election when he recounted the conversation he had with the bush staff in Florida after he was sent there to oversee the recount. He said they do everything by the book but also said “do you want to be ideological pure, or do you want to win ?” and I’ve heard it said on a podcast about the same election that republicans didn’t “care if they were seen as hypocrites, they wanted to be in power.”

The democrats really don’t have the same attitude and indulge in ideological purity tests and seem to be of the belief that they can use the same playbook all over America and that the voters will just flock to them, which is either unbelievable naive or arrogant or a mixture of both.

looksee

Bit of an aside, but He Hasn't Gone Away. On the contents page of MSNBC currently 20 of the items/headlines include Trump's name. Only 12 mention Biden. I'll bet he is sitting there counting mentions too.

EltonJohn69

looksee wrote: »

Bit of an aside, but He Hasn't Gone Away. On the contents page of MSNBC currently 20 of the items/headlines include Trump's name. Only 12 mention Biden. I'll bet he is sitting there counting mentions too.

Yeah they need to stop.

StringerBell

Tbf MSNBC is close enough to the left wing Fox, both of them make the most hay off trump so your gonna have to put up with him a lot from them.

The thing is though, he genuinely is still relevant because he is not elected and less visible but unquestionably the head of the party and most influencial right wing politician in the US. He really is a one off in terms of what he is able to absorb and feel very little damage with his fans they are so conditioned.

Biden would for sure love for him to be in the rear view but I actually do think it's important they pursue him for his crimes, plenty of other democratic nations are able to convict former leaders and survive, what happened with Nixon shouldn't happen again it sets a terrible precedent id they look at everything that happened because of trump or that he directed and say, okay let's just all agree not to do it again.

There has to be consequences, look how emboldened that party is with literally changing laws to suit the agenda in the wake of 2020 when they actually did well as a party.

Quin_Dub

looksee wrote: »

Bit of an aside, but He Hasn't Gone Away. On the contents page of MSNBC currently 20 of the items/headlines include Trump's name. Only 12 mention Biden. I'll bet he is sitting there counting mentions too.

I've said this before , but a key difference is that we are hearing ABOUT Trump , but we're really not hearing a whole lot FROM Trump anymore.

He is still very relevant in terms of the current State of the GOP and of course the multiple court cases and the recent exposure of the DOJ subpoenas etc.

But what we are not getting is the constant barrage of his lies and obfuscation multiple times a day.

looksee

I absolutely agree that Trump and his legacy needs to be dealt with, I also see that 'Trump' is clickbait (it works on me

). Still it would be better if his name were not so readily tossed around.

EltonJohn69

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I've said this before , but a key difference is that we are hearing ABOUT Trump , but we're really not hearing a whole lot FROM Trump anymore.

He is still very relevant in terms of the current State of the GOP and of course the multiple court cases and the recent exposure of the DOJ subpoenas etc.

But what we are not getting is the constant barrage of his lies and obfuscation multiple times a day.

I really don’t miss the daily avalanche of Trump madness.

briany

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

I really don’t miss the daily avalanche of Trump madness.

I don't think any of us do. I know there's been this talking point of, "Oh, I bet the press misses Trump. They have nothing to talk about now.", but even those in the press probably privately recognise that a reduction in readership is preferable to Trump being in the Whitehouse fomenting rabid anger among his base of voters.

aloyisious

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I've said this before , but a key difference is that we are hearing ABOUT Trump , but we're really not hearing a whole lot FROM Trump anymore.

He is still very relevant in terms of the current State of the GOP and of course the multiple court cases and the recent exposure of the DOJ subpoenas etc.

But what we are not getting is the constant barrage of his lies and obfuscation multiple times a day.

The silence is good for the senses, even if his shadow still lies on the land and the GOP.

I'm thinking that the fact so far in the breaking story of the Trump DOJ subpoenas that neither of Trump's Attorneys General nor the Deputy AG seem to have been involved with them makes it seem that some-one lower down the DOJ authority level was involved in the authorising for the subpoenas.

With former AG Barr denying any knowledge of the subpoenas which [given his position] sounds like a implausible deniability excuse, it looks like some-one will be thrown under the bus - maybe already has tonight listening to CNN reporting on the early retirement of a senior DOJ staffer. An obvious question is who in the DOJ would place themselves in the position of giving the go-ahead for subpoenas without a permit from either Barr or Jeff Sessions, or the Deputy AG of the time to do what looks like Trump's bidding from a distance.

aloyisious

With reference to a report by The Daily Digest on the net that Jared Kushner has beaten Don Trump Snr to the punch with a "tell all" book deal, I'd like to know how reliable The Daily Digest is for new stories and their content reliability; is this likely to be just a story with nothing behind the headlines? There is no mention made about whom the publisher is to be.

aloyisious

Mike Pence is still in the sights of US conservatives as he was heckled and called a traitor at a Christian religious conference earlier today when he took the stage to address the conference. The hecklers, curiously enough wearing red baseball caps, were escorted out of the audience by police. The heckling might indicate a reduced vote for him to be a GOP candidate for the presidency next time around.

PropJoe10

aloyisious wrote: »

Mike Pence is still in the sights of US conservatives as he was heckled and called a traitor at a Christian religious conference earlier today when he took the stage to address the conference. The hecklers, curiously enough wearing red baseball caps, were escorted out of the audience by police. The heckling might indicate a reduced vote for him to be a GOP candidate for the presidency next time around.

There's more chance of me becoming US President than Mike Pence. Traditional Republicans will hate him for hitching to the Trump Train, and Trumpsters hate him for stabbing the Orange One in the back. He'd be as well disappearing entirely and if he wants to, making a comeback in about ten years while hoping that people can't quite remember where they saw him before.

Nody

I wonder if Trump will now turn on DeSantis as he's no longer #1 or simply call it fake news and rigged election...

Florida governor Ron DeSantis outstripped former president Donald Trump as a favourite choice for 2024 presidential contender in a straw poll of conservative voters this weekend.

The Republican governor edged out Mr Trump with 74 per cent of voters approving him as a presidential candidate as against the former president’s about 71 per cent votes.

The results of the polls which were conducted online using the approval voting method were announced during the Western Conservative Summit which saw 500 people attending it and tens of thousands of watching it live.