French Open 2021

Despite how good the big 3 are/were, the real anomaly is that no one emerged in the last decade to really challenge them at GS level, normally the coming generation retires the previous generation of players, this hasn't happened yet with both Djokovic and Nadal in their mid thirties way past their respective peaks still dominating the game and a near 40 year old Federer still in with an outside chance of a slam ( don't think it'll happen myself) when he should be long retired by the next gen players, but, outside of Djokovic and Nadal he still probably fancies himself against the rest and tbh who'd blame him with the inconsistency and mental weakness the next gen players have shown at GS level.

Sinner made a right balls of that. Serving for the set at 5-4 and loses 7-5. Oh dear! All that hard work for no return, ouch

yerwanthere123

Oh Jannik. You know, I think this match is already done tbh. Would be delighted to be wrong though.

Djokovic 2015 to mid 2016 was even better than 2011 version in my opinion

quote="Lagrange;117365932"]Federer's peak year was 2006, Nadal 2010 and Djokovic 2011. They're all a shadow of their former selves, no shame in that though given how old they are.

2005 to 2010 Nadal on clay would destroy 2021 Nadal on clay.[/quote]

Then why did Djokovic push Federer so close in 2007 when only a teenager?? There is also no comparison between the glandular fever Federer had and Soderling. That condition effects people in totally different ways. If Federer was that bad, there is no way he would be coasting to an Australian open semi final, French open final, Wimbledon final and winning US open the year he had it!!!

You could argue that pre 2008 the mens game was a joke in comparison, look at who Federer was beating in most of his slam final wins back then:

Philipousis
Gonzalez
Baghdatis
Roddick
Hewitt (after his peak)
Agassi (way after his peak)

Compare that to who Djokovic has beaten in his slam final wins (4 vs Federer, 4 vs Nadal, 5 vs Murray, Del Potro).

quote="Lagrange;117365839"]He didn't beat peak Federer, he beat a Federer suffering from Glandular fever, the same illness that ended Soderling's career. Nonetheless, the true greats usually when their first slam by 21, and he did just that.[/quote][/quote]

Djokovic is good enough to compete with any player in the history of the game, as he was at 20 also. But Federer noticeably declined following the January 2007 Australian open which was the absolute peak of Federer. 2006 Federer was around peak level also. In 2008 he fell off of a cliff.[/quote]

Federer is long since gone past his peak of the late noughties, but I think both Djokovic and Nadal are past their peaks too despite still dominating the game. Djokovic's peak was around 2014-16 and Nadal's probably the years before that. The last 5 years or so has been a case of 3 greats past their best, but, still dominating the slams, but, neither would stand a chance against their peak selves as much as the media still try to sell the idea that Djokovic and Nadal in particular are better now than 5/10 years ago.

glasso wrote: »

Retired due to injury, not mentally collapsed with a two set lead.

He also won stuff young.

Sinner is the real deal. Has also won stuff young.

Musetti is as crumbly as Muesli going on today.

Again, never said Musetti would win a GS, you're trying to compare a young inexperienced player with arguably the greatest player ever. Time will tell if he's the real deal or not, but, I wouldn't write him off totally after today, you may well be right about him and today might even prove to be a career highlight, only time will tell

I don't buy that, Federer played very well leading into that semi final. Another match to note, the year previous to that in 2007 Djokovic played Federer in the US open final.

Djokovic had a load of set points in both the 1st and 2nd sets and lost both in a tie break when with a bit more composure could have been 2 sets up. Djokovic was causing Federer all sorts of problems even as a teenager. Djokovic also beat Federer in a masters final that year beating the top 3 players in the world back to back in doing so.

Make no mistake, Djokovic was already on the way to the top long before 2011. Federer has lost 6 consecutive slam matches to Djokovic and hasnt beaten him in a slam since 2012

quote="Lagrange;117365752"][/quote]

He didn't beat peak Federer, he beat a Federer suffering from Glandular fever, the same illness that ended Soderling's career. Nonetheless, the true greats usually when their first slam by 21, and he did just that.[/quote]

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Really hope Swiatek defends her title here, not sure anyone really needs another first time slam winner. Although having said that I think Gauff has a great chance too. Hype levels would go through the roof then, although I guess it'd be justified.

I think Gauff has a really tough match against Krejčíková*, but there are so many unknowns with these match-ups., as it's unknown territory for most of the remaining players. Lots of them could get very nervous, with a first ever slam semi-final spot (and maybe more) to be won.

*Yes, I did just copy and paste that

HeidiHeidi

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

While I agree Novak had a habit of folding in his teens, he did win his first slam aged 20 and even beat peak Federer in that first slam win. Djokovic was a freak talent, he had a number of wins against Fedal even as a teenager. However it wasnt until late 2010, early 2011 that he really started believing how good he was and from then on he became a beast. I still think Djokovic of late 2015 to early 2016 was the highest level of tennis I have ever witnessed.

Musetti is a future star, no doubt about it but it will all depend on how he develops physically and mentally. He has the ability and the shots. He needs the right people around him as does Sinner. If they continue to work hard, anything is possible. Djokovic showed again today if you give him an easy opening, he becomes a great front runner and its very hard to stop his momentum. I was less convinced after set two today because Novak was playing key points very badly and musetti was showing great composure. Clearly once the momentum shifted he panicked and couldnt stop the bleeding.

And if he was injured?

Girly Gal wrote: »

Djokovic retired in many matches in his early career before he became the dominant player he is today from around 2010 on, I think he even retired while a set up in the US Open.

Retired due to injury, not mentally collapsed with a two set lead.

He also won stuff young.

Sinner is the real deal. Has also won stuff young.

Musetti is as crumbly as Muesli going on today.

yerwanthere123

klr87 wrote: »

Sakkari has beaten Kenin, so Swiatek (who plays Kostyuk this evening) is the only slam winner left in the women's singes. None of the others have even been in a slam semi-final before, and only Pavs has been to a slam quarter final before (6 times in all). Some of the others had not been beyond round 2 of a slam before this tournament. Sacre bleu ...

Really hope Swiatek defends her title here, not sure anyone really needs another first time slam winner. Although having said that I think Gauff has a great chance too. Hype levels would go through the roof then, although I guess it'd be justified.

Augme

Comparing every tennis up and coming to Novak is ridiculous. It's like comparing every up and coming forward and saying "oh he will never be as good as Messi". We won't see a player as good as Novak or Nadal probably every again. I certainly won't see Nadal's record in Roland garos ever repeated. Enjoy it while you can.

whiterebel

If it was his groin that went it’s hardly surprising what happened to him. You can’t nurse yourself past that.

glasso wrote: »

lots of players have plenty of ability but just don't have the champion spirit

Djokovic had won multiple ATP titles by 19 and never fell apart like a house of cards that I ever saw

effectively completely falling apart and giving up like that in the middle of match with a 2 set lead is a very bad sign, knackered or not

Djokovic retired in many matches in his early career before he became the dominant player he is today from around 2010 on, I think he even retired while a set up in the US Open.

Girly Gal wrote: »

Didn't say he would, most players in history haven't and won't, hell, we may never see him again, but, you can't write him off after today's match, how many players have even gone 2 sets up against Djokovic in a slam, not many.

lots of players have plenty of ability but just don't have the champion spirit

Djokovic had won multiple ATP titles by 19 and never fell apart like a house of cards that I ever saw

effectively completely falling apart and giving up like that in the middle of match with a 2 set lead is a very bad sign, knackered or not

Sakkari has beaten Kenin, so Swiatek (who plays Kostyuk this evening) is the only slam winner left in the women's singes. None of the others have even been in a slam semi-final before, and only Pavs has been to a slam quarter final before (6 times in all). Some of the others had not been beyond round 2 of a slam before this tournament. Sacre bleu ...

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Well that was disappointing in the end. Not sure I have the energy to watch another young Italian lose now.

Given that Nadal beat Sinner in straight sets here last year (well, last October), and again in Rome last month, I think you could be right. Sinner will try hard (4 of the 5 sets they've played have been close), but Nadal will likely grind out a win in 3 hours or so, as is his wont.

You could say the same about Wimbledon. There are only 2-3 contenders at French and Wimbledon. US Open and Australia will always be most competitive because majority of players are very good on hard courts. Grass and clay are more specialist. Federer and Djokovic have won 13 wimbledons between the two of them

quote="Hector Savage;117365486"]Why anyone would watch this utter farce is beyond me, the French Open may be interesting in 5 years time (maybe) when Nadal will only by 80% sure of winning it.[/quote]

glasso wrote: »

He's not going to win 10% of what djokovic has won

Didn't say he would, most players in history haven't and won't, hell, we may never see him again, but, you can't write him off after today's match, how many players have even gone 2 sets up against Djokovic in a slam, not many.

While I agree Novak had a habit of folding in his teens, he did win his first slam aged 20 and even beat peak Federer in that first slam win. Djokovic was a freak talent, he had a number of wins against Fedal even as a teenager. However it wasnt until late 2010, early 2011 that he really started believing how good he was and from then on he became a beast. I still think Djokovic of late 2015 to early 2016 was the highest level of tennis I have ever witnessed.

Musetti is a future star, no doubt about it but it will all depend on how he develops physically and mentally. He has the ability and the shots. He needs the right people around him as does Sinner. If they continue to work hard, anything is possible. Djokovic showed again today if you give him an easy opening, he becomes a great front runner and its very hard to stop his momentum. I was less convinced after set two today because Novak was playing key points very badly and musetti was showing great composure. Clearly once the momentum shifted he panicked and couldnt stop the bleeding.

quote="Girly Gal;117365459"]Djokovic didn't have it when he was 19, he had a reputation for retiring from matches and was seen as mentally weak until his early twenties, he has since gone on to become probably the mentally strongest player in the history of the game, so wouldn't write off Musetti just yet[/quote]

Girly Gal wrote: »

Djokovic didn't have it when he was 19, he had a reputation for retiring from matches and was seen as mentally weak until his early twenties, he has since gone on to become probably the mentally strongest player in the history of the game, so wouldn't write off Musetti just yet

He's not going to win 10% of what djokovic has won

Hector Savage

Why anyone would watch this utter farce is beyond me, the French Open may be interesting in 5 years time (maybe) when Nadal will only by 80% sure of winning it.

yerwanthere123

Well that was disappointing in the end. Not sure I have the energy to watch another young Italian lose now.

And he's retired. Probably saved himself about 10 more minutes on court.

glasso wrote: »

I didn't

I'm saying that this is loser flake material on display here

The mental side is where the titans excel

But it's not necessarily something that can be developed though. It's innate

The biggest difference

What the djokovics and the Nadals have that the others don't

Djokovic didn't have it when he was 19, he had a reputation for retiring from matches and was seen as mentally weak until his early twenties, he has since gone on to become probably the mentally strongest player in the history of the game, so wouldn't write off Musetti just yet

HeidiHeidi

glasso wrote: »

I didn't

I'm saying that this is loser flake material on display here

The mental side is where the titans excel

But it's not necessarily something that can be developed though. It's innate

The biggest difference

What the djokovics and the Nadals have that the others don't

So, writing him off based on his first GS match then.

Again, he's 19. And clearly knackered!

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

I head out for an hour after musetti wins 2nd set and suddenly into 5th set.......WTF!

I think the moment Djokovic broke for 2-0 in the 3rd, the match was effectively over. Musetti is likely to win 2 or 3 games max. over the last 3 sets. Folded like the proverbial cheap suit. Injury, fatigue, inexperience, or a sudden realisation "Oh f**k, I'm two sets up against Djokovic, now what do I do?". Or some combination of al of the above.