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Options for a council owned shooting range.

Zxthinger

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What's yer thoughts on the possibility of a publicly owned and operated shooting range in some county..
Worth a discussion..

These councils around Ireland have golf courses and playing pitches etc etc. Why don't we have a public shooting range..

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jb88

tudderone wrote: »

Illegal afaik for him to handle a firearm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSDzmKDY894

No it isnt on a registered range for an unrestricted firearm?

tudderone

jb88 wrote: »

This country doesnt want or think it needs people who know how to use a firearm in Ireland

Every Playstation and X box guy thinks they know how to use a gun, well having just trained a guy how to shoot, that doesnt apply at all. Mr XBox has no concept of safety until the details are explained and re enforced.

Go to a public range and see guys with guns standing around, I dont think so.

Irish people are too stupid for that, they are too stupid for a great many things, but a 20 year old Mr XBox on a range with his buddies and its all a laugh. No one will insure that. Sure it would be a free for all.

Ive been told by a former chief range safety officer that he saw a guy he knew one day out on the range and got the shock of his life. Especially since he knows this guy to have a long list of lets say "Issues", or previous serious criminal convictions. There he was getting instructions on how to shoot a rifle and also Pistol.

Its a great idea to have a public range and were society developed enough to have this in place then yes it can be done.
But Irish society isnt developed enough for it yet.

Lets keep it heavily regulated and difficult, that way only the smartest, strongest and determined get what they want and everyone else gets the playstation or Xbox.

Illegal afaik for him to handle a firearm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSDzmKDY894

jb88

This country doesnt want or think it needs people who know how to use a firearm in Ireland

Every Playstation and X box guy thinks they know how to use a gun, well having just trained a guy how to shoot, that doesnt apply at all. Mr XBox has no concept of safety until the details are explained and re enforced.

Go to a public range and see guys with guns standing around, I dont think so.

Irish people are too stupid for that, they are too stupid for a great many things, but a 20 year old Mr XBox on a range with his buddies and its all a laugh. No one will insure that. Sure it would be a free for all.

Ive been told by a former chief range safety officer that he saw a guy he knew one day out on the range and got the shock of his life. Especially since he knows this guy to have a long list of lets say "Issues", or previous serious criminal convictions. There he was getting instructions on how to shoot a rifle and also Pistol.

Its a great idea to have a public range and were society developed enough to have this in place then yes it can be done.
But Irish society isnt developed enough for it yet.

Lets keep it heavily regulated and difficult, that way only the smartest, strongest and determined get what they want and everyone else gets the playstation or Xbox.

SupaCat95

The last thing you want to do is to put yourself and rifle in the trust of a politician/civil/public servant.
I would much prefer a "private member" style club. As long as you are of good character and pay your fees you are welcome. Private member clubs can move much faster and cut through red tape much faster than some slow witted public servant.

tudderone

Chiparus wrote: »

Bit like the civilian marksmanship program in the US.

100%

Chiparus

tudderone wrote: »

There is a long history of that in the UK though, civilian-military cooperation. Yeomanry, militia's, territorial army and all that.

Bit like the civilian marksmanship program in the US.

tudderone

Chiparus wrote: »

It is a real pity we cannot use military ranges , like they do in the UK.

https://nra.org.uk/all-downloads/civilian-use-of-mod-ranges/

There is a long history of that in the UK though, civilian-military cooperation. Yeomanry, militia's, territorial army and all that.

Chiparus

It is a real pity we cannot use military ranges , like they do in the UK.

https://nra.org.uk/all-downloads/civilian-use-of-mod-ranges/

garrettod

Coincidently, I've just seen this article regarding the Ice Hockey Dome planned for Dundalk IT:

https://www.businesspost.ie/sport/public-accounts-committee-to-seek-answers-from-dundalk-it-as-ice-dome-remains-vacant-d433dd52

Sorry about the paywall - afraid I'm too mean to pay the sub, but the first few lines give context.

Ice Hockey must be a very specialist sport in Ireland

Interesting idea, partnering with a University though. Does that give some good for thought,with regards to how some range might be started, or expanded?

I know that Trinity has been given a brief mention above. Are there any other universities with any sort of existing facilities? The ideal scenario might be a JV, between private sector and a University, with part time private use and some sponsorship from ammo manufacturers etc.

tudderone

garrettod wrote: »

That's superb.

Simple, practical and effective.

So something that will never happen in Ireland then !

garrettod

tudderone wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5capbhKlVA

That's superb.

Simple, practical and effective.

JP22

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But France had crap generals TBH who were thinking ww1 tactics and couldn't accept that the Wehrmacht could and did go thru the Ardennes via Belgium, and were informed of this possibility a decade before by one of their own generals. You can have the best-equipped army of lions, but if it is led by donkeys...

IF you have the right people in charge...We don't have and probably never will here, as they can't see past their own noses.

True Grizzly, the blind leading the blind.

End of day you have to blame the donkeys leading or not leading. All modern nations have been told by their respective military heads; forget about WW3, atom bomb, etc.....

Today’s threat is internal/external terrorism, medical bugs/virus (Sars/Covid) and hackers bugs/virus. Just look at our med/health department, I see the biggest world meat producer (US based) has now been hacked. It seems key-board warrior’s rule the today, what a mess we have gotten ourselves into.

tudderone

Can you imagine the nimby-ism if someone tryed to build this in Ireland :eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5capbhKlVA

Grizzly 45

JP22 wrote: »

True Grizzly.

As TJ said in 1778, " A little rebellion is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government ".

Invade Ireland, meh, easy then, easy now. France was said to have a good standing army in numbers in WW2, how long did it take to rout it, 35 days.

But France had crap generals TBH who were thinking ww1 tactics and couldn't accept that the Wehrmacht could and did go thru the Ardennes via Belgium, and were informed of this possibility a decade before by one of their own generals. You can have the best-equipped army of lions, but if it is led by donkeys...

TBH if Stalin hadn't attacked Poland from the East, the Poles were holding their ground very well against the Germans, and could probably have fought them to a stalemate or even defeated them. They had booted the Comrades from Moscow a good one in the Soviet-Polish war of 100 years ago this year.So being a little guy doesn't mean a certain defeat, ever since David walloped Goliath with a rock.
IF you have the right people in charge...We don't have and probably never will here, as they can't see past their own noses.

Grizzly 45

The two most unusual or original ranges I've been in in Germany were in Hamburg and Berlin. Berlin near Templehoff airport was an old air-raid shelter, complete with all the original steel doors and air conditioning extraction plants you could want.
Hamburg is smack bang in a building in the financial district:eek:
You have to really look to find it too.

Both of them had their usual NIMBY objections,and even more anti-gun than we would see here, but were able to overcome them by being able to answer and demonstrate how safe they could be.
The Berlin one even has a kids playground on top of it, and no one is any the wiser that there are 10 lanes below them shooting pistols and rifles.
There has to be in any industrial areas of our cities and towns some place we can rent/buy/lease a space for a 40 foot container?

JP22

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Probably also helps if your country has been invaded and occupied by either Communists or Nazis over the last 50 years,and Russians and Germans and various others over the last few centuries before that.
........

True Grizzly.

As TJ said in 1778, " A little rebellion is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government ".

Invade Ireland, meh, easy then, easy now. France was said to have a good standing army in numbers in WW2, how long did it take to rout it, 35 days.

meathstevie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Am thinking a poor mans version[starting out] of something like this...
Surely it isn't beyond our abilities to acquire, and build something on the like that would pass muster with the CRI of the DOJ and be able to put it someplace that doesn't bother anyone?

http://www.shootingrangeindustries.com/modular-shooting-solutions/

I have fired many boxes of 9mm through a Glock 17 in a range very much like it. It definitely wasn’t accessible to the public but it was based in the middle of a pretty large town and you could stand outside it when the range was in use and you wouldn’t have clue what was going inside it.

Grizzly 45

Probably also helps if your country has been invaded and occupied by either Communists or Nazis over the last 50 years,and Russians and Germans and various others over the last few centuries before that.
Maybe make you appreciate having a well-equipped army and somewhat armed populace should either side decide to visit again and reduce your country to a slave fiefdom.:eek:

JP22

garrettod wrote: »

was in Poland with a few friends, about 4 years ago - we went shooting AKs etc at an indoor range, in an industrial estate - nothing glamorous, but prefectly safe and functional.

Why we couldn't have a few here, I don't know?

Don't get me started on that one...:mad:,

I’ll give it a start, others will chip in I’m sure.

Politics or rather lack of, old politicians (not with the times, afraid to change, don’t upset the apple cart), political incompetence/ignorance in general about our sport/pass-time, old and out dated legislation not fit for purpose in a modern society, open ended SOP where any issuing authority can have a view that acceptable regardless, insurance costs, planning laws, masses of red tape and hoops to jump through, the ban all/anti brigade, the nimby attitude,

garrettod

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

2009 that was "O Snotty" of SF sounding off..Until Sparks learned him better in the Dail public enquiry a few years later.:)
Been quiet on this topic ever since...

That guy

https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-td-urged-to-come-clean-over-e50000-use-of-dail-printer-cartridges-367908-Feb2012/

Grizzly 45

tudderone wrote: »

:rolleyes:

https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/14696

""The tightening up of gun licensing laws and the trafficking of illegal guns into the country must be a priority for the Government if we are to tackle this serious societal crisis." ENDS

:rolleyes:

Bet they didn't say that to Gaddafi or Whitey Bulger.

2009 that was "O Snotty" of SF sounding off..Until Sparks learned him better in the Dail public enquiry a few years later.:)
Been quiet on this topic ever since...

tudderone

Feisar wrote: »

AKs? The IRA, the reason we can't have nice things!

:rolleyes:

https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/14696

""The tightening up of gun licensing laws and the trafficking of illegal guns into the country must be a priority for the Government if we are to tackle this serious societal crisis." ENDS

:rolleyes:

Bet they didn't say that to Gaddafi or Whitey Bulger.

Feisar

garrettod wrote: »

I was in Poland with a few friends, about 4 years ago - we went shooting AKs etc at an indoor range, in an industrial estate - nothing glamorous, but prefectly safe and functional.

Why we couldn't have a few here, I don't know?

While some industrial estates are in high demand, others are half deserted, and would benefit from any form of increased activity.

AKs? The IRA, the reason we can't have nice things!

garrettod

tudderone wrote: »

"Won't someone please think of the children though".

Whatever about the children, the teenagers are sorted, sure can't they get a learner licence from age 14 ?

tudderone

garrettod wrote: »

I was in Poland with a few friends, about 4 years ago - we went shooting AKs etc at an indoor range, in an industrial estate - nothing glamorous, but prefectly safe and functional.

"Won't someone please think of the children though".

garrettod

I was in Poland with a few friends, about 4 years ago - we went shooting AKs etc at an indoor range, in an industrial estate - nothing glamorous, but prefectly safe and functional.

Why we couldn't have a few here, I don't know?

While some industrial estates are in high demand, others are half deserted, and would benefit from any form of increased activity.

Grizzly 45

JP22 wrote: »

Good man Tudderone, lots of us here will help you spend it. :D

Seriousely though, as Grizzly said, there must be large (60/70m long) old unused block buildings out there away from populated areas that would be suitable for an indoor range.

Am thinking a poor mans version[starting out] of something like this...
Surely it isn't beyond our abilities to acquire, and build something on the like that would pass muster with the CRI of the DOJ and be able to put it someplace that doesn't bother anyone?

http://www.shootingrangeindustries.com/modular-shooting-solutions/

Grolschevik

badaj0z wrote: »

There are three indoor ranges that I know of, all 25 metres. One is in an industrial estate, the other is in the middle of a very large farm, miles from the nearest habitation. The third , was on a farm but has ceased to operate AFAIK.
Noise and traffic are clearly not an issue. The main issues here are cost of construction or fitting out and safety. Safety costs money and the lead issue costs even more. A 50 or 100 metre range would be very expensive to build and /or fit out. I have no doubt that Planning permission and range safety approval could be obtained in some locations. However the attempt to set up the one in Dalkey was met with overwhelming resistance by the surrounding local people and the media and was dropped. The key question is whether enough revenue will accrue to justify the cost even if you could get approval.

For students, staff and alumni only, but the TCD Rifle Club had a 25m indoor range right in the middle of the campus. They're in the process of building a new range, but I don't know the size or location; haven't been a member for years! If it's on TCD land, possibly Islandbridge or Santry? I'm sure someone here knows...

JP22

tudderone wrote: »

Right, if i score on the euromillions tonight, i'll build one :cool:

Good man Tudderone, lots of us here will help you spend it.

:D

Seriousely though, as Grizzly said, there must be large (60/70m long) old unused block buildings out there away from populated areas that would be suitable for an indoor range.

tudderone

BattleCorp wrote: »

If you invested enough money into the design and construction, then absolutely, no reason why it wouldn't pass scrutiny. But as has already been mentioned, it might not be economically viable. Although if you are incredibly wealthy and don't mind losing money, that might not be a concern.

Installing and running this craic is pretty expensive. https://www.airfilterusa.com/industries-served/shooting-range

An auld fan doesn't cut it any more.

Right, if i score on the euromillions tonight, i'll build one :cool: