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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

[Deleted User]

Carrying on with the discussion as the other thread is full

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055766866/1

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ShaneC1600

end of the road wrote: »

so he forgot a particular bridge was missing, sure it's a tad poor but not really a big deal.

That bridge was removed under licence. Therefore under the licence necessary funding for reinstating the bridge will be made available. The bridge will be replaced at no expense to CIE in a similar fashion if the rail was operational so in reality and economically the bridge is not an issue for reactivating the line. The bridge was removed to accommodate the widening of the N63 and would have happened regardless of the railway and its good that it was removed opening up the road.

end of the road

westtip wrote: »

Yes of course but he was factually incorrect when he said all the bridges are there, What!!!! A Factually incorrect statement from the author of the West on Track report!!!! Good god we will have to have a peer review, mind you hats off to west on track this is the best bit of spoofing codology they have come up with in years. Problem is they have simply not got over the fact that the government reports weren't McCann Mark 2 Maybe that is what we should call the new West on Track report, McCann 2. Nahhh let's just call it the West on Track Report . It is a report written by a lobby group fair play to them but it is not a "peer review" it is not a government policy document and it will be seen for what it is a lobbyists report touting their POV, thats fine as long as all the TDs receiving it in the Dail today, apparently it is being handed out today see it for what it is.

so he forgot a particular bridge was missing, sure it's a tad poor but not really a big deal.
when you say see the report for what it is, really it's see it for what you want it to see, because the report could very much be actually accurate and much better then the last report.
hard to dismiss a report that hasn't been published.

eastwest wrote: »

This latest WOT document won't be taken seriously by the government, and indeed won't be seen as in any way unbiased -- the author has some history of public support for WOT.
But this stroke by WOT is clever, it's designed to muddy the waters not only around the national rail review but also around the county development plans in galway and mayo.
This WOT document won't get them a train, particularly one that can travel on the bits of track and over the bridges that aren't there, but it may delay decisions locally on the greenway, which is the purpose of the exercise.
But it won't fool the people making the decisions in the Department and the EIB; their position was already made clear in the two official reports.

it's not designed to fool anyone, it's designed to put forward the facts and the case for reopening the line.
rail reopening campaigns generally take a very very long time to gain any sort of traction, so the fact that governments staul is not any sort of surprise, it's to be expected.
positions can change, after all it was position from 1976 to have no services on the WRC, then the ennis services were introduced after presssure, and then the through route was reopened, not to mention that some freight services operated on the line for a time, presumably which irish rail would have preferred to not have operated by that route.

eastwest

This latest WOT document won't be taken seriously by the government, and indeed won't be seen as in any way unbiased -- the author has some history of public support for WOT.
But this stroke by WOT is clever, it's designed to muddy the waters not only around the national rail review but also around the county development plans in galway and mayo.
This WOT document won't get them a train, particularly one that can travel on the bits of track and over the bridges that aren't there, but it may delay decisions locally on the greenway, which is the purpose of the exercise.
But it won't fool the people making the decisions in the Department and the EIB; their position was already made clear in the two official reports.

westtip

end of the road wrote: »

ready to go means the relevant requirements are in place for the line to be rebuilt and reopened.
so the route, embankments, and most bridges etc.
the line will have to be rebuilt of course, new track, drainage works etc but that is standard practice for a line that has been out of use for a good few years, and with most of the big infrastructure in place it is easy to do and the missing bridge can be built easily.

at the opposite end of the scale you have as an example, the old line to west cork which was completely and deliberately and systematically obliterated after closure, which could never be reopened if there was ever a want for it.

Yes of course but he was factually incorrect when he said all the bridges are there, What!!!! A Factually incorrect statement from the author of the West on Track report!!!! Good god we will have to have a peer review, mind you hats off to west on track this is the best bit of spoofing codology they have come up with in years. Problem is they have simply not got over the fact that the government reports weren't McCann Mark 2 Maybe that is what we should call the new West on Track report, McCann 2. Nahhh let's just call it the West on Track Report . It is a report written by a lobby group fair play to them but it is not a "peer review" it is not a government policy document and it will be seen for what it is a lobbyists report touting their POV, thats fine as long as all the TDs receiving it in the Dail today, apparently it is being handed out today see it for what it is.

end of the road

westtip wrote: »

Thjs quote also came to mind from a retired economist on drivetime this week

Ballglunin? Railway line that is only fit for scrap? I think The West on Track report author is being a tad optimistic.

ready to go means the relevant requirements are in place for the line to be rebuilt and reopened.
so the route, embankments, and most bridges etc.
the line will have to be rebuilt of course, new track, drainage works etc but that is standard practice for a line that has been out of use for a good few years, and with most of the big infrastructure in place it is easy to do and the missing bridge can be built easily.

at the opposite end of the scale you have as an example, the old line to west cork which was completely and deliberately and systematically obliterated after closure, which could never be reopened if there was ever a want for it.

westtip

Thjs quote also came to mind from a retired economist on drivetime this week

The bridges are there the railway line is there, the beauty of this is that it is ready to go

Ballglunin? Railway line that is only fit for scrap? I think The West on Track report author is being a tad optimistic.

Grassey

This quote from Michael Gove in 2016 popped into my mind reading the last few posts.... for some reason :pac:

“I think the people of this country have had enough of experts with organisations with acronyms saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong.”

eastwest

Decades wrote: »

It's not a project - c'est le problème.

It is a project, but of the imagination.
And of reports, lots of reports.

Decades

Del.Monte wrote: »

It was the WRC - Dr.John Bradley - "It's a very good project".

It's not a project - c'est le problème.

Del.Monte

It was the WRC - Dr.John Bradley - "It's a very good project".

Del.Monte

Western Rail Corridor, or Connemara Railway, coming up on Drivetime in the next few minutes.

blackwhite

Decades wrote: »

Genuinely - what's going on here lads?

1) https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/iarnrod-eireann-and-xpo-logistics-to-begin-new-twi

and now this 2) https://fleet.ie/national-local-politicians-call-on-dublin-port-to-reverse-its-decision-on-ceasing-its-freight-service-to-and-from-ballina/

Are we getting increased freight trains, to and from Ballina,- or not? Asking for a friend.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/dublin-port-rail-link-suspended-due-to-brexit-congestion-1.4594404

Dublin Port Company are no longer allowing the IWT trains cross East Wall Road and enter the port - and so IWT have had to suspend their rail-freight from Ballina to Dublin.

They are still going ahead with their expanded Waterford service

They seem to still be allowing the Tara Mines trains into the Port, as I saw one heading down Alexandra Rd yesterday.

eastwest

Decades wrote: »

Genuinely - what's going on here lads?

1) https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/iarnrod-eireann-and-xpo-logistics-to-begin-new-twi

and now this 2) https://fleet.ie/national-local-politicians-call-on-dublin-port-to-reverse-its-decision-on-ceasing-its-freight-service-to-and-from-ballina/

Are we getting increased freight trains, to and from Ballina,- or not? Asking for a friend.

We're not getting more trains from Ballina, even if they can coax another mega polluter like asahi back .
In the short term, there will.probably be no major changes in freight levels. Longer term, once Coca Cola has monitored their need to be in ballina post Brexit, who knows?
Either way, the chances of a second freight line being built to serve Ballina, when the existing one has the capacity to handle ten times as much volume, is pretty slim.

Decades

Genuinely - what's going on here lads?

1) https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/iarnrod-eireann-and-xpo-logistics-to-begin-new-twi

and now this 2) https://fleet.ie/national-local-politicians-call-on-dublin-port-to-reverse-its-decision-on-ceasing-its-freight-service-to-and-from-ballina/

Are we getting increased freight trains, to and from Ballina,- or not? Asking for a friend.

[Deleted User]

random_guy wrote: »

Is it published anywhere?

Not that I've been able to find so far

I did check their site and even their latest news section, however that just contained a press release from 2018 when they said this about the EY report

We are confident that the independent review of the potential of the railway in the context of the Atlantic Economic Corridor will confirm the major contribution that the railway can make in terms of regional connectivity, linking Galway city with its natural hinterland in line with the National Planning Framework, as well as opening up the southern ports directly to freight traffic from the west, an essential requirement in the context of Brexit.

That independent review didn't go the way they wanted so they've written their own review that says what they want because, well, umm, they wrote it to say that lol

WOT are currently not responding to requests in their Facebook & Twitter feeds where people are asking to see the report itself rather than a press release about the report

eastwest

random_guy wrote: »

Is it published anywhere?

That's obviously the end of the debate so. I mean, what would the ECB know, and as for EY Consulting?
This latest stunt may keep the little band of fans happy, but no government in its right mind will do anything other than bin it.

They missed a trick though, the report should have said that the project can be done for nothing and with money back when it's done. After all, when you're writing the story, you can give it any ending you like. That's how fairy tales work.

random_guy

Deleted User wrote: »

So WoT were so annoyed by the EY report that they thought was going to save the day, that they've gone and done their own special report which says, wait for it........ that it would be a brilliant use of money to reopen north of Athenry to Claremorris

Personally I was shocked by this revelation that only WOT could find in their own totally absolutely positively non-biased I swear report

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/case-against-rail-link-from-athenry-to-claremorris-fundamentally-flawed-1.4598670?mode=amp

Is it published anywhere?

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

So WoT were so annoyed by the EY report that they thought was going to save the day, that they've gone and done their own special report which says, wait for it........ that it would be a brilliant use of money to reopen north of Athenry to Claremorris

Personally I was shocked by this revelation that only WOT could find in their own totally absolutely positively non-biased I swear report

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/case-against-rail-link-from-athenry-to-claremorris-fundamentally-flawed-1.4598670?mode=amp

Hilarious!!!!!

[Deleted User]

So WoT were so annoyed by the EY report that they thought was going to save the day, that they've gone and done their own special report which says, wait for it........ that it would be a brilliant use of money to reopen north of Athenry to Claremorris

Personally I was shocked by this revelation that only WOT could find in their own totally absolutely positively non-biased I swear report

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/case-against-rail-link-from-athenry-to-claremorris-fundamentally-flawed-1.4598670?mode=amp

westtip

Great news for the west of ireland as Green Transport Minister signs off on new road. This part of the N5 has been a nightmare for years, reference to it here a couple of weeks ago that it was due to go to cabinet, now it has the nod. Can't wait to see the same as soon as possible for the N17 Collooney to Knock.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/9e42d-minister-ryan-announces-n5-ballaghaderreen-to-scramoge-road-project/?fbclid=IwAR1_8CwzZKoJ8K4i0lCLPoVY1qPsJX-7Xdvp6xMOUNtS9rTLGSyARNQEdjw

Captain Lugger

Deleted User wrote: »

Thankfully you are not doing the calculations otherwise we'd be getting a maglev to Kiltimagh with your mathematical acrobatics

The campaign starts here! Thanx for the suggestion...

westtip

macker16 wrote: »

It will be a long time before that road is built:D

That is very true, equally as already noted the railway is not going to happen any sooner. The fact of the matter that this route is part of the TEN-T network and will be liable for European funding. The railway from Athenry-Claremorris has already been the subject of a formal evaluation process in two reports that found it wanting in terms of any level of evaluation criteria, one of the most serious being potential EU funding (go look at Jaspers), re the railway north of Claremorris that is completely off anyones radar. If its not on the radar it is not in the planning process. This road is in the planning process so the seed has been planted, it is also part of the National Development plan, the two aforementioned reports were part of the NDP as well, and we know where they got the railway. Of course the railway is now on the national rail review, but lets be realistic about that one and the real priorities it will lay down. So yes you are right it will be a long time before that road will be built, the same was said of the N4 Castlebaldwin to Collooney (which will probably open before Christmas) just as an example, and by the way here is another example a section of the N5 that has been talked about for years is part of the NDP but got good news this week https://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/48152-n5-project-in-roscommon-signed-off-on-by-minister?fbclid=IwAR1Giq2PPKRtSSbSBkjCMflmp_wwiKwNGFlsKQ49Lemg4sj-yIT-ZB5p630

All these things take a long time, but I can assure you in the fullness of time, over the next 15 years a dual carriageway will run from Letterkenny to Cork, and the WRC thread will still be discussing the WRC, one hopes in 15 years time, the discussion will be when is the railway parallel with the highly successful greenway going to be put in place, or will the electric cars, buses and trucks rendered it not necessary. Hey ho on we go but as I say having the project in the planning loop is important, and the WRC simply is not there.

eastwest

macker16 wrote: »

It will be a long time before that road is built:D

The time will seem very short by comparison with the return of a railway on this route.

macker16

It will be a long time before that road is built:D

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder what impact this will have on any potential reopening of rail services in Mayo

Updates on the project are available here: https://n17knockcollooney.ie/

I think the CBA ratio for the closed rail line just fell off a cliff

thanks for posting that one up, indeed the new N17 and the Greenway will be of huge benefit to the local economies.

Decades

Greaney wrote: »

None of the four points were applied to the QMG route
1) The practical ground work hasn't been done....no one has cycled the route, created the (mock-up) of the brochure/website, classified the roads or organised public/bike-week organised events for cyclists to engage in them. An internet campaign is not the same as actually getting on a bike. It's got to include those who've shouted the loudest for this facility to get on their bikes & cycle the area.

They have and do every day of the week - both by foot and bike.

Greaney wrote: »

2)The proposed Athenry to Milltown route has not been made scale-able. There's no €5k, €20k investment elements etc. proposed

Simply not true, but you couldn't know that.

Greaney wrote: »

3)The ground work by local community bike groups who've been scoping their areas for routes & then joining them hasn't been part of the campaign

Not true

Greaney wrote: »

4) The descriptions of the greenway when it's finished are in the area of the imagination of those who are still at the dream stage. One is imagining it's going to be like Westport to Louisburg, however, with Gort trails, etc. one doesn't imagine, one has a rough sketch of what it's going to be... enough work has been done that it's a tangible reality, not a dream waiting to be shattered in the event of the train line opening.

Not true

Galway County Council and perhaps Dublin-Galway will soon produce far more than a "rough sketch" in relation to Athenry's disused railway, so let see what they say. Sligo has well surpassed the "dreamers" state and sods will soon be turned. I hear there were people cycling around Swinford and Charlestown nailing colours to the greenway mast over the last few days. .

Greaney

Decades wrote: »

Leaving aside a love of trains (because that's a personal preference for transport), which of your 1-4 does not apply to any of the proposed greenways along the Western Transport Corridor?

I don't oppose greenways along the Western Transport corridor, I oppose the 'only one option greenway', at the expense of rail. To achieve anything, one always needs to have more than one option, and to have scale-able steps

None of the four points were applied to the QMG route

1) The practical ground work hasn't been done....no one has cycled the route, created the (mock-up) of the brochure/website, classified the roads or organised public/bike-week organised events for cyclists to engage in them. An internet campaign is not the same as actually getting on a bike. It's got to include those who've shouted the loudest for this facility to get on their bikes & cycle the area.
2) The proposed Athenry to Milltown route has not been made scale-able. There's no €5k, €20k investment elements etc. proposed
3)The ground work by local community bike groups who've been scoping their areas for routes & then joining them hasn't been part of the campaign
4) The descriptions of the greenway when it's finished are in the area of the imagination of those who are still at the dream stage. One is imagining it's going to be like Westport to Louisburg, however, with Gort trails, etc. one doesn't imagine, one has a rough sketch of what it's going to be... enough work has been done that it's a tangible reality, not a dream waiting to be shattered in the event of the train line opening.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Thankfully you are not doing the calculations otherwise we'd be getting a maglev to Kiltimagh with your mathematical acrobatics

not at all, you would just be getting a good regional main line.

[Deleted User]

end of the road wrote: »

road upgrades could actually enhance it long term as road upgrades equals traffic increases but more roads won't be able to solve it for economic and environmental reasons.

Thankfully you are not doing the calculations otherwise we'd be getting a maglev to Kiltimagh with your mathematical acrobatics

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly the type of rail investment needed in the west

Next up, full dual tracking all the way to Dublin, electrification, removal of remaining level crossings, demand stations and hey presto a sub 2hr Galway to Dublin service

Now THAT is investment with a tangible return for society and the economy

it is indeed and the reopening of the western railway corridor regional main line will complement this investment for sure.

eastwest wrote: »

It's started! Cork today, Swinford to kiltimagh tomorrow. Or sometime.
Government announces new metropolitan rail network for Cork as part of Economic Recovery Plan https://jrnl.ie/5454345

just announcing stuff that should have been done decades ago.
quite right and very welcome that it will finally get done.

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder what impact this will have on any potential reopening of rail services in Mayo

Updates on the project are available here: https://n17knockcollooney.ie/

I think the CBA ratio for the closed rail line just fell off a cliff

road upgrades could actually enhance it long term as road upgrades equals traffic increases but more roads won't be able to solve it for economic and environmental reasons.