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emigration

BenDover2020

So, when all this is over and the country is on its knees (again) and we're expected to pay higher taxes and save the day (again) and with no real chance of owning our own home due to Gov policy from the last time. what are peoples plans?

For me it just feels like there is nothing for us here now due to complete miss management and a horrible unlevel playing field with all the news of the vulture funds recently. This country is rotten to the core and it will only get worse. My options are probably Canada or New Zealand as I have some friends over there from the last mass emigration.

So what are everyones plans?

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[Deleted User]

ionnn wrote: »

I emigrated to the US a few years ago and quite frankly it was the best decision I ever made. The sad reality is that Ireland in its current form punishes people who are ambitious or work in higher paying industries, with a heavy tax burden for little in return. I lived in Dublin for about a year after college and it really is a complete mess, public transport totally over capacity, junkies shooting up in plain view etc

I think the core of it all though, is their is no ambition to fix anything in the country, like DCC blocking high rises because of the 'skyline'. All I ever hear is people saying people who earn higher wages should be taxed more, while people in the country on social welfare pay little to no tax at all, and I believe that is going to reach a breaking point where people and companies who are actually keeping the economy afloat decide enough and take their resources elsewhere.

I once lived in the US. Taxes were as high as here, all totalled up. But this was California. That said it was fun.

Right now the US seems like it’s a basket case but that might be exaggerated through the media.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Right now the US seems like it’s a basket case but that might be exaggerated through the media.

The media exaggerates everything.

Poster is right though. Drive and hard work is valued and rewarded in the US. Ireland and Europe seems to cater better for the mediocre.

Have several colleagues who transferred to the US. They have a quality of life unimaginable in Ireland. Having said that, I have still have no desire to move there, mostly for family reasons.

[Deleted User]

Hamachi wrote: »

The media exaggerates everything.

Poster is right though. Drive and hard work is valued and rewarded in the US. Ireland and Europe seems to cater better for the mediocre.

That's the cliche anyway. Drive and hard work and in the end you could be out of work on your ass at 40 in an "At will" state"

Have several colleagues who transferred to the US. They have a quality of life unimaginable in Ireland. Having said that, I have still have no desire to move there, mostly for family reasons.

I lived a life over there that was quite imaginable in Ireland. We are hardly a 3rd world country.

[Deleted User]

fvp4 wrote: »

I lived a life over there that was quite imaginable in Ireland. We are hardly a 3rd world country.

Because people are not comparing like with like.

I did a short stint doing consulting work in New York, got put up in a lovely neighborhood, gorgeous little apartment, the works. Far beyond what I've seen in Ireland, which is natural enough.

While there though, I visited two friends who were working there full time, and they were living in rather rundown neighborhoods, graffiti everywhere, dirty as hell, and the apartments, while serviceable, weren't anything to write home about. Reminded me a lot of living in Camden street in Dublin 20 odd years ago. (I understand Camden has improved a lot since then)

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

coinop wrote: »

Did he buy property in the airport? Auckland is the name of the city. AKL is an airport. Sorry to go off on a tangent but I hate when people refer to a city by its airport's IATA. You hear it all the time with LAX yet you wouldn't refer to London as LHR (or LGW or STN). Anyway, back to the thread.

I'd say you're mad craic down the local

Purple is a Fruit

I don't see anything wrong with emigrating or preferring somewhere else - I don't think people should be criticised for that alone - but how is Ireland a "sh1t-hole"?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Depends on what you're doing. If you're doing science then there are opportunities in places like Manchester and Edinburgh. While opportunities are concentrated in London, it's not nearly as bad as the equivalent effect in Ireland. If my clinical trials job in Manchester hadn't come with such a measly remuneration package, I might well have settled there due to the very affordable cost of living, amenities and world class airport.

That's what I mean though - some are being critical of the way you have to move to Dublin for most opportunities in Ireland, but it's not an unfair prospect, the other cities are too small. Although there are plenty of pharma and tech related jobs in Cork.

NSAman

Purple is a Fruit wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with emigrating or preferring somewhere else - I don't think people should be criticised for that alone - but how is Ireland a "sh1t-hole"?

That's what I mean though - some are being critical of the way you have to move to Dublin for most opportunities in Ireland, but it's not an unfair prospect, the other cities are too small. Although there are plenty of pharma and tech related jobs in Cork.

Ireland is not a **** hole, however, it does stifle entrepreneurship and taxes the hell out of everything in my humble opinion.

Not every emigrant succeeds in life, that’s obvious, for some of us we do well and better than we could have in Ireland, others not so much. Same as living in Ireland.

No one should be criticised for trying to make a life for themselves in Ireland or abroad. I have never understood people seeing people who emigrate as being less irish. My parents were emigrants at one stage, they came back to raise us in Ireland. I have left for many years, still maintain a home in Ireland, as it is home.

While I feel at home in the States, I still want to spend more time at home in the future, living a few months in Ireland and few months here.

Mars Bar

I am in Abu Dhabi. First quip I usually get is "oh, tax free!".

Which was grand before the pandemic. What I learned was no taxes = no help.
There was absolutely no help whatsoever from anywhere. Not even for the businesses unless they were Emirati. My rent was the same as my salary for 8 months.

I'd have been financially much better off to have gotten home and tried to claim the PUP.
(I did try, my flights kept getting cancelled).

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because people are not comparing like with like.

I did a short stint doing consulting work in New York, got put up in a lovely neighborhood, gorgeous little apartment, the works. Far beyond what I've seen in Ireland, which is natural enough

This is the point I was making. If you’re doing well for yourself, the US can and does offer an incomparable lifestyle.

The colleagues I mentioned live in fantastic houses, with huge gardens, BBQ pits, hot tubs etc. Meanwhile, I do the same job and get to live in a semi-D in an undesirable part of west Dublin.

The US does reward drive, effort, and skills. I’m not saying that one country is better than the other. Both have positives and negatives. However, if you’re doing well in life, the rewards are simply better in the US.

Mrcaramelchoc

BenDover2020 wrote: »

So, when all this is over and the country is on its knees (again) and we're expected to pay higher taxes and save the day (again) and with no real chance of owning our own home due to Gov policy from the last time. what are peoples plans?

For me it just feels like there is nothing for us here now due to complete miss management and a horrible unlevel playing field with all the news of the vulture funds recently. This country is rotten to the core and it will only get worse. My options are probably Canada or New Zealand as I have some friends over there from the last mass emigration.

So what are everyones plans?

Good luck don't forget to close the door on your way out.

zom

fvp4 wrote: »

Come to Ireland, it’s a relatively safe shithole. New tourist board slogan.

Most people grow up from enjoying risky lifestyle in their 20s.

[Deleted User]

Hamachi wrote: »

This is the point I was making. If you’re doing well for yourself, the US can and does offer an incomparable lifestyle.

The colleagues I mentioned live in fantastic houses, with huge gardens, BBQ pits, hot tubs etc. Meanwhile, I do the same job and get to live in a semi-D in an undesirable part of west Dublin.

The US does reward drive, effort, and skills. I’m not saying that one country is better than the other. Both have positives and negatives. However, if you’re doing well in life, the rewards are simply better in the US.

Your colleagues are living in the boondocks if that is true. If you are “doing well” in the more expensive cities of the US and can’t get rent control, which you won’t as an immigrant, a two bedroom apartment in a grim area is your lot. I think 4 homeless guys died and one drug shooting took place in the San Francisco street I paid about $1.4K a month for years ago. Wouldn’t get it for that now. The average rent is $2.9k. It’s falling though.

[url] https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ca/san-francisco/[/url]

People on Dublin salaries could live like a king in the midlands or (as a thread is discussing right now) northern Ireland.

Thelonious Monk

Hamachi wrote: »

This is the point I was making. If you’re doing well for yourself, the US can and does offer an incomparable lifestyle.

The colleagues I mentioned live in fantastic houses, with huge gardens, BBQ pits, hot tubs etc. Meanwhile, I do the same job and get to live in a semi-D in an undesirable part of west Dublin.

The US does reward drive, effort, and skills. I’m not saying that one country is better than the other. Both have positives and negatives. However, if you’re doing well in life, the rewards are simply better in the US.

But people get rewarded for hard work etc here too, I know loads of people who have the cars and fancy garages in Dublin. Personally I wouldn't measure quality of life on things like that anyway.
I mean we're doing pretty good in Ireland if you look at things on an international scale. They might have bigger houses and monster trucks in their driveways in the USA, but they also have crumbling infrastructure, terrible social services, 2 hour each way commutes, impossible to walk or cycle anywhere etc. Plus we get to be EU citizens and can live anywhere in Europe.
If you drive around Ireland there's a mansion every 100 meters or so with 3 cars in the driveway, so plenty of people are living that dream here too.

micosoft

BenDover2020 wrote: »

So, when all this is over and the country is on its knees (again) and we're expected to pay higher taxes and save the day (again) and with no real chance of owning our own home due to Gov policy from the last time. what are peoples plans?

For me it just feels like there is nothing for us here now due to complete miss management and a horrible unlevel playing field with all the news of the vulture funds recently. This country is rotten to the core and it will only get worse. My options are probably Canada or New Zealand as I have some friends over there from the last mass emigration.

So what are everyones plans?

Do you actually know the price of housing in Vancouver and Auckland where the good jobs are? Folk would want to wise up that the outside world is not as rosy as they think it is. You might lead a slightly better life in some regards trading off loss of family etc but the amount of folk that go "Dublin expensive, emigrate to Vancouver" rather than considering say Tipperary. Anywhere with good jobs is expensive.

micosoft

NSAman wrote: »

Ireland is not a **** hole, however, it does stifle entrepreneurship and taxes the hell out of everything in my humble opinion.

Swings and roundabouts. San Jose is centre of Start-up world. It's an awful place to live and a rundown small two bed costs well north of 1.2 million. You need to earn 200k per annum to get on the housing ladder in the bay area. Because of the amount of capital you have to go there for some stage of your business but I don't know a single bay area colleague that would not kill for my Irish lifestyle. I would need to double a generous salary to make up for the hidden cost of living there (property, private schools, tipping, cost of everything) and the high taxes in Ireland are cheap when you consider the excellent free education system alone (do your Harvard when your employer pays for it, not you or your parents!). I just think we need to talk about the serious tradeoffs you got to make in the US. Myself, I'd move to Wyoming or Montana if I had to go there and buy a decent ranch...

NSAman wrote: »

No one should be criticised for trying to make a life for themselves in Ireland or abroad. .

Agree. The issue is some emigrants seem to insist on doing down Ireland all the time.

micosoft

ionnn wrote: »

I lived in Dublin for about a year after college and it really is a complete mess, public transport totally over capacity, junkies shooting up in plain view etc

I think the core of it all though, is their is no ambition to fix anything in the country, like DCC blocking high rises because of the 'skyline'. All I ever hear is people saying people who earn higher wages should be taxed more, while people in the country on social welfare pay little to no tax at all, and I believe that is going to reach a breaking point where people and companies who are actually keeping the economy afloat decide enough and take their resources elsewhere.

This is garbled nonsense and shows a lack of life experience. We have no homeless/junkie problem compared to any US city. They have entire tent cities in LA/SF. I'm actually ok with paying higher taxes to avoid my fellow citizens being discarded because it's ethical and in the medium/long run saves money. As for taxing social welfare?

Ireland has an economy run on intellectual property of it's workers. Not assets. This means we have a huge gap between top performers working for MNC's and the "average" worker. The only way to make the system work is to tax the top performers to redistribute to the "average" workers. It's called a society and I'd far rather see that in my tax bill then indirectly paying for it through gating communities to protect myself from society which is what is happening in the US. It literally does not make business sense. As for your Ayn Rand philosophy.. evidence is it does not happen and Rand ended up on Social Welfare. The good news is that the Irish are still better than to believe in that nonsense...

Thelonious Monk

Yes I lived in Canada for a while and Vancouver and Calgary have an army of homeless/addicts downtown, our situation in Dublin has nothing on these places, and that's not excusing our situation here we have a lot of work to do.

I think a lot of people come to Dublin from the rest of Ireland and spend their time appalled and disgusted by teenagers in tracksuits and heroin addicts, and are ashamed to share nationality with these people, but are not quite as offended by these things when they go abroad, so are able to ignore it.

NSAman

micosoft wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts. San Jose is centre of Start-up world. It's an awful place to live and a rundown small two bed costs well north of 1.2 million. You need to earn 200k per annum to get on the housing ladder in the bay area. Because of the amount of capital you have to go there for some stage of your business but I don't know a single bay area colleague that would not kill for my Irish lifestyle. I would need to double a generous salary to make up for the hidden cost of living there (property, private schools, tipping, cost of everything) and the high taxes in Ireland are cheap when you consider the excellent free education system alone (do your Harvard when your employer pays for it, not you or your parents!). I just think we need to talk about the serious tradeoffs you got to make in the US. Myself, I'd move to Wyoming or Montana if I had to go there and buy a decent ranch...

Agree. The issue is some emigrants seem to insist on doing down Ireland all the time.

Oh I agree with you about California, it’s a hell hole.

My office is a fifteen minute drive from the house. It’s a renovated 1800’s industrial building. On that drive I pass, through glorious scenery, both in winter and summer. I gave up on city living due to the crime and politics here, which are worse than Ireland. There is ZERO crime where I live…doors are left open and people are friendly and hard working.

I am close enough to the city to visit for work/meetings/lawyers…etc..etc.

Could I have this life in Ireland? Probably, but could I afford it? Nope! That is the difference. I would be up to my tonsils in mortgages to pay for it. Here the “ranch” is affordable and paid for, without spending 30 years paying for it.

I’m not saying ireland doesn’t have many, many benefits at all…it most certainly does. I am not saying that the US is better, it too has many issues with living here. But……having worked hard for many years and being smart has seen benefits here that I would not and had not seen in Ireland.

In all honesty, if you are smart, hard working and willing to get stuck in you can make it anywhere.

zom

NSAman wrote: »

My office is a fifteen minute drive from the house. It’s a renovated 1800’s industrial building. On that drive I pass, through glorious scenery, both in winter and summer. I gave up on city living due to the crime and politics here, which are worse than Ireland. There is ZERO crime where I live…doors are left open and people are friendly and hard working.

Can you tall us where this American paradise is? Cheap big houses, well paid good jobs and no crime or junkies on the streets? Some people will to go there even next week.

NSAman

zom wrote: »

Can you tall us where this American paradise is? Cheap big houses, well paid good jobs and no crime or junkies on the streets? Some people will to go there even next week.

MOst small towns outside of Large Metropolitan Areas. You can sneer all you want, small town America is safe! I never said CHEAP big houses, but they are affordable. Obviously I bought at the right time too, but you can still get a started home here for 50K and a nice house and a little land for 150K-200K three bed and an acre or two.

The well paid job is one that I created for me and my staff. It requires hard work. I have worked at it for over 20 years.

MANY people have discovered the benefits of living outside of large cities since COVID. The fact that house prices in small towns are rising fast is evidence of this.

Obviously, you have not travelled much of the States as this IS available in many areas. There are no junkies here (meth labs alright which blow up every now and then), homelessness is non-existent.

The new Weed dispensary in town has a few pot-heads hanging around, but dare then interfere with the locals or visitors, straight to jail no questions asked.

I have not locked the doors on my house in over 4 years. No need to. Nothing ever goes missing, the car is parked in the driveway with the keys in it most nights. This is NOT Ireland.

The local paper reports ALL crime, woman arrested for flicking a pen at a shop clerk (its assault), kids break into shop and steal a pack of cigarettes but leave the money..... usually is traffic offences, no seatbelt, dangerous driving or speeding, all of which are reported in the paper. Biggest news locally in the past two years was a murder.... in a neighbouring county.... places like I live in exist. whether you believe it or not, America is not the same in every place.

Wompa1

Hamachi wrote: »

The US does reward drive, effort, and skills. I’m not saying that one country is better than the other. Both have positives and negatives. However, if you’re doing well in life, the rewards are simply better in the US.*

Doing well in life in the US can depend greatly on your ethnicity and/or zip code growing up.

Lex_Luthor

I came back to Dublin in 2018 after years away, I left again in January 2020. I hope to go back one day, unfortunately not the best time.

Wompa1

NSAman wrote: »

MOst small towns outside of Large Metropolitan Areas. You can sneer all you want, small town America is safe! I never said CHEAP big houses, but they are affordable. Obviously I bought at the right time too, but you can still get a started home here for 50K and a nice house and a little land for 150K-200K three bed and an acre or two.

The well paid job is one that I created for me and my staff. It requires hard work. I have worked at it for over 20 years.

MANY people have discovered the benefits of living outside of large cities since COVID. The fact that house prices in small towns are rising fast is evidence of this.

Obviously, you have not travelled much of the States as this IS available in many areas. There are no junkies here (meth labs alright which blow up every now and then), homelessness is non-existent.

The new Weed dispensary in town has a few pot-heads hanging around, but dare then interfere with the locals or visitors, straight to jail no questions asked.

I have not locked the doors on my house in over 4 years. No need to. Nothing ever goes missing, the car is parked in the driveway with the keys in it most nights. This is NOT Ireland.

The local paper reports ALL crime, woman arrested for flicking a pen at a shop clerk (its assault), kids break into shop and steal a pack of cigarettes but leave the money..... usually is traffic offences, no seatbelt, dangerous driving or speeding, all of which are reported in the paper. Biggest news locally in the past two years was a murder.... in a neighbouring county.... places like I live in exist. whether you believe it or not, America is not the same in every place.

What is the zip code? We can easily just look up the crime reports for that area. The US makes that very easy.

cnocbui

The Economist's latest world ranking of world cities for livability has 6 New Zealand and Australian cities in the top ten. Dublin's ranking is 51st. Nice to see one's own assessments vindicated.

NSAman

Wompa1 wrote: »

What is the zip code? We can easily just look up the crime reports for that area. The US makes that very easy.

Why don't I give you my address as well???

Idbatterim

ionnn wrote: »

I emigrated to the US a few years ago and quite frankly it was the best decision I ever made. The sad reality is that Ireland in its current form punishes people who are ambitious or work in higher paying industries, with a heavy tax burden for little in return. I lived in Dublin for about a year after college and it really is a complete mess, public transport totally over capacity, junkies shooting up in plain view etc

I think the core of it all though, is their is no ambition to fix anything in the country, like DCC blocking high rises because of the 'skyline'. All I ever hear is people saying people who earn higher wages should be taxed more, while people in the country on social welfare pay little to no tax at all, and I believe that is going to reach a breaking point where people and companies who are actually keeping the economy afloat decide enough and take their resources elsewhere.

this hits the nail on the head! its a country built on begrudgement! Surprised they don't all expect to be just given a degree, house in ballsbridge and high paying job, in the name of "equality", social justice and whatever other bull**** they love to throw about...

at least they are now , decades after much of Europe, talking about a welfare rate, being based on what you paid in. That is a start... Living standards will continue to drop for the long term unemployed etc, which needs to happen...

This nonsense of a low paid worker paying E60 a gp visit and free for those who have never worked, is a joke! There should be a minimum charge of E20 a visit!

[Deleted User]

Wompa1 wrote: »

Doing well in life in the US can depend greatly on your ethnicity and/or zip code growing up.

It also depends on work ethic, intellectual horse power, and ability to get on with people. Many Irish people have these attributes in spades and do very well in the US. Have seen my own colleagues fly up the corporate ladder over there.

[Deleted User]

cnocbui wrote: »

The Economist's latest world ranking of world cities for livability has 6 New Zealand and Australian cities in the top ten. Dublin's ranking is 51st. Nice to see one's own assessments vindicated.

Don’t care how livable cities in Australia are purported to be. If it means tolerating Australians, you can keep them.

cnocbui

Hamachi wrote: »

Don’t care how livable cities in Australia are purported to be. If it means tolerating Australians, you can keep them.

I won't have a problem, after more than a decade of tolerating Irish people.

[Deleted User]

cnocbui wrote: »

I won't have a problem, after more than a decade of tolerating Irish people.

Good man. Don’t let that door hit you on the arse on your way out..