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Off Topic Thread 5.0

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Thread continued from here https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057835955&page=250

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Neil3030

Teferi wrote: »

The solution:

I do wonder if this 'interview' affected Pete Carroll's decision to throw the ball from the 1-yard line right at the death, and not give the game winning TD to Lynch....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7rPIg7ZNQ8

molloyjh

swiwi_ wrote: »

Personally can’t stand athletes who refuse to front for the media. When you’re a pro athlete it goes with the territory.

She struggles with depression and anxiety. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for some to put themselves out in front of the world like that, especially now with the way media and social media can be.

In one way I understand the "its part of the job" perspective, but at the same time these people are human beings. Being good at the fundamentals of her job, ie the tennis, doesn't have to go hand in hand with being an extrovert who is completely okay with being front and centre in the media.

If a doctor is great at medicine but crap with people (we've all had experience of that I'm sure) or if a builder is great at construction but rubbish at costing stuff does that mean they shouldn't be doing the job? Or does it mean that they should get suitable supports to allow them to do their job? And how does that logic apply to pro athletes? Could her coach speak for her or could she hire someone to do it in her place? Or should she just not be a pro athlete?

Podge_irl

To a certain degree the media aspects of it are what makes it the difference between a job and a hobby though.

I don't think there are any villains in this piece. She put the Open in a difficult position by just refusing to do the interviews - there will be multiple contracts floating around that are being breached in that scenario. Maybe she flagged it earlier and they were working on it, maybe she didn't but not sure what they can really do in that scenario. Mind you, threatening her with expulsion was stupid.

Maybe, ultimately, not participating in the tournament is the best outcome.

pickarooney

Who wants to watch an interview with an obviously uncomfortable athlete blurting out inane platitudes? Ridiculous situation, just let them.play tennis.

Podge_irl

pickarooney wrote: »

Who wants to watch an interview with an obviously uncomfortable athlete blurting out inane platitudes? Ridiculous situation, just let them.play tennis.

The sponsors and tournament organisers who have paid a lot of money for it?

You regularly see snippets of press conferences on the news, not least as they have no rights restrictions.

Shaka Hislop

Nasty whiff of commercial wants, over athletes wellbeing coming from France at the moment.
You could definitely see the PTPA getting involved and forcing the issue for future tournaments

stephen_n

Venus Williams mindset about journalists and pundits is good. A very different way of dealing with the press. You’d probably need something like that to deal with the press at that level.

Former Former Former

If Naomi Osaka genuinely has mental health issues that are exacerbated by pressure and attention, then she's in the wrong job.

On the other hand, she earned $55 million dollars last year, 90% of which was for endorsements and other commercial activities. I'm not sure that's compatible with crying foul when it's time to give media interviews tbh.

If she's having a rough time then dropping out of the tournament was the right thing to do. I'm extremely skeptical of all these other tennis stars rushing in to pile into "the media" because it's nothing but self serving cynicism. None of these people want to be just left alone to play tennis, they're utterly reliant on off-court attention.

The end game here is that the players will have total control of their portrayal in the media. Follow me on Tiktok, my Netflix "documentary" is dropping next week, but I'm fooked if I'm actually going to talk to you without full editorial control.

This is how it's going to be I guess. I hope Osaka gets over her issues but blaming a post game presser is awful nonsense.

Shaka Hislop

Former Former Former wrote: »

If Naomi Osaka genuinely has mental health issues that are exacerbated by pressure and attention, then she's in the wrong job.

On the other hand, she earned $55 million dollars last year, 90% of which was for endorsements and other commercial activities. I'm not sure that's compatible with crying foul when it's time to give media interviews tbh.

If she's having a rough time then dropping out of the tournament was the right thing to do. I'm extremely skeptical of all these other tennis stars rushing in to pile into "the media" because it's nothing but self serving cynicism.

The end game here is that the players will have total control of their portrayal in the media. Follow me on Tiktok, my Netflix "documentary" is dropping next week, but I'm fooked if I'm actually going to talk to you without full editorial control.

This is how it's going to be I guess. I hope Osaka gets over her issues but blaming a post game presser is awful nonsense.

Pretending you know what does, or does not trigger any individuals mental health issues is arrogant and backwards quite frankly. Disgraceful comment.

stephen_n

Former Former Former wrote: »

If Naomi Osaka genuinely has mental health issues that are exacerbated by pressure and attention, then she's in the wrong job.

On the other hand, she earned $55 million dollars last year, 90% of which was for endorsements and other commercial activities. I'm not sure that's compatible with crying foul when it's time to give media interviews tbh.

If she's having a rough time then dropping out of the tournament was the right thing to do. I'm extremely skeptical of all these other tennis stars rushing in to pile into "the media" because it's nothing but self serving cynicism. None of these people want to be just left alone to play tennis, they're utterly reliant on off-court attention.

The end game here is that the players will have total control of their portrayal in the media. Follow me on Tiktok, my Netflix "documentary" is dropping next week, but I'm fooked if I'm actually going to talk to you without full editorial control.

This is how it's going to be I guess. I hope Osaka gets over her issues but blaming a post game presser is awful nonsense.

That post like many of yours comes off as incredibly lacking in any understanding of other people’s lives or experiences. It’s arrogant to a degree that’s rather disgusting. To assume you know everything about everyone’s motivations and the difficulties they face, so you can pass judgement on them. Speaks volumes about you, not them.

hahashake

I don't judge Osaka but I am also aware that professional sports is an entertainment industry. Tennis is especially focused on the personalities involved, remove that from the game and people will care less about the results and therefore tune in less.

Former Former Former

stephen_n wrote: »

That post like many of yours comes off as incredibly lacking in any understanding of other people’s lives or experiences. It’s arrogant to a degree that’s rather disgusting. To assume you know everything about everyone’s motivations and the difficulties they face, so you can pass judgement on them. Speaks volumes about you, not them.

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

Pretending you know what does, or does not trigger any individuals mental health issues is arrogant and backwards quite frankly. Disgraceful comment.

Ah here. What did I say that was disgraceful?

Hyper-sensitive snowflake alert.

irishbucsfan

There is absolutely a push across professional sports for athletes to take control of the media surrounding them but I really don’t think that’s what’s happening here

sydthebeat

i suggest people should go and read what naomis sister Mari posted, which she had to deleted and apologies to naomi over.

essentially it comes across as naomi trying to get a professional advantage by not opening herself up to criticism in the media, by not doing media after games.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/tennis/french-open-2021-naomi-osaka-media-boycott-mari-osaka-reddit-post-clay-court-struggles-press-conferences/news-story/a374f53179f30f2c66cb061212e527dd

stephen_n

Former Former Former wrote: »

Hyper-sensitive snowflake alert.

It’s always funny when people use that term. They always tend to be arrogant people who don’t like being called out on their BS. Again says a lot about you not me.

I sometimes wonder if this is Piers Morgan’s anonymous account.

Bridge93

Was Osaka not one of the leading voices and figures in the sporting world in the Black Lives Matter movement last year? Those actions don't really compute with somebody who is as badly affected by talking to the media as she is claiming here. As was said above, her sister's comments are all a bit strange.

I don't really doubt she has some problems she needs to sort out for the good of her own health most importantly, but there is certainly a sense of a sports superstar trying to control when and where the narrative is written to suit themselves. At the very least it'll hopefully lead to a conversation now about the media and it's role in sport.

She's fully entitled to not do the press work just as the French Open are fully entitled to disqualify someone who is breaking the terms of participation. The media ultimately pay her wages so can't have your cake and eat it I suppose. Both sides have stuck to their guns and the most amicable solution has been reached. Hopefully she takes the time away she needs now and can get herself better as the tour, for any of those individual sports, can be a tough place.

Former Former Former

stephen_n wrote: »

It’s always funny when people use that term. They always tend to be arrogant people who don’t like being called out on their BS. Again says a lot about you not me.

I sometimes wonder if this is Piers Morgan’s anonymous account.

Is there not an inherent contradiction in this? You're worried about the mental health of a multimillionaire celebrity that you'll never meet, but you've no problem laying into me??

You think I'm Piers Morgan. Hmmm. You're so proud of calling me out on my arrogant BS, that you've failed to notice that calling arrogant people out on their BS is exactly how Piers Morgan has always earned his living.

Something to consider. I just dislike the slavish unquestioning devotion to celebrity that seems to be taking over the world. A celeb said it on Instagram? Then it must be true!!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go light my Gwyneth Paltrow 'Smells Like My Vagina' candle and put this unpleasantness behind me.

stephen_n

Former Former Former wrote: »

Is there not an inherent contradiction in this? You're worried about the mental health of a multimillionaire celebrity that you'll never meet, but you've no problem laying into me??

You think I'm Piers Morgan. Hmmm. You're so proud of calling me out on my arrogant BS, that you've failed to notice that calling arrogant people out on their BS is exactly how Piers Morgan has always earned his living.

Something to consider. I just dislike the slavish unquestioning devotion to celebrity that seems to be taking over the world. A celeb said it on Instagram? Then it must be true!!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go light my Gwyneth Paltrow 'Smells Like My Vagina' candle and put this unpleasantness behind me.

It’s not a Slavish devotion to celebrity. I have zero interest in celebrity whatsoever. I have a profound interest in mental health though. What I don’t like is people like you pontificating about other people’s experiences when they know the square route of fvck all about them. Mental health issues have been stigmatized for years. Yet when people come out and talk about theirs. You get idiots on the internet. Trotting out ignorant BS. Like how could someone earning 50 million a year possibly have any issues. It’s attitudes like that which prevent people from talking about their struggles and normalizing this experience. What would be more comforting for a 16 year old fan of a tennis star. Hearing they suffer from anxiety too and it’s ok to talk about it.

I have worked with people who are in high powered jobs, have all the trappings of wealth and success. Yet are absolutely crippled with anxiety. They are destroying themselves physically and mentally to try and hide it from people. Usually doing a fairly good job of that too. Success is not in any way a shield from the impact of stress.

Piers Morgan is a hypocrite of the highest order. Arrogant in the extreme and as you would put it, a complete snowflake when anyone challenges him on it.

I’m attacking your attitude, I’m attacking the way you post. If it’s a persona you create for online forums then so be it. Maybe that’s something for you to look at.

Dubinusa

I don't know what to make of it. If she doesn't want to do media events, so be it. If these events cause her distress, she should not have to do them. Either way, her wellbeing should be the priority.

Podge_irl

stephen_n wrote: »

It’s not a Slavish devotion to celebrity. I have zero interest in celebrity whatsoever. I have a profound interest in mental health though. What I don’t like is people like you pontificating about other people’s experiences when they know the square route of fvck all about them. Mental health issues have been stigmatized for years. Yet when people come out and talk about theirs. You get idiots on the internet. Trotting out ignorant BS. Like how could someone earning 50 million a year possibly have any issues. It’s attitudes like that which prevent people from talking about their struggles and normalizing this experience. What would be more comforting for a 16 year old fan of a tennis star. Hearing they suffer from anxiety too and it’s ok to talk about it.

I would suggest that "I suffer from anxiety so decided to just suddenly stop doing the parts of my job that cause it" isn't a great message to send kids either.

stephen_n

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would suggest that "I suffer from anxiety so decided to just suddenly stop doing the parts of my job that cause it" isn't a great message to send kids either.

That’s not what happened though is it? You are suggesting that mental health is a static thing. You do realize that people are signed off work all the time on the grounds of stress?

She spoke about enduring two years of anxiety. That were heightened around press duties. At this point in time she decided it was in her own best interest not to do them. There could be a multitude of reasons why that is. That we will never ever know about. So we can only take her word for it.

A little stress is healthy, without it we would never succeed at anything. We don’t get to dictate the stress that comes into our life though. We do our best to manage it but sometimes all it takes is one unhelpful thought pattern to kick in and push us outside our window of tolerance. What has happened here and how she handled it would suggest to me, that’s what has happened here.

sydthebeat

her anxiety should first be diagnosed, and when diagnosed, should be used to take time away from the game to rehabilitate until she can return... just like any physical injury. tennis allows players to forgo media when physical injuries are involved, so should also allow the same when mental injuries are involved.

using anxiety (apparently as yet undiagnosed) as a reason not to carry out an employment duty, whilst still carry out other duties and receiving financial reward at the same time is tantamount to receiving a professional edge in a competitive sport. Saying "I'm just not going to subject myself to people that doubt me" is her call, but there will be consequences.

There are many many people out there who have lost jobs / cant apply for jobs because of their mental health issues which would be problematic for the required roles... and in many cases it is severe anxiety in public situations.

Podge_irl

stephen_n wrote: »

That’s not what happened though is it? You are suggesting that mental health is a static thing. You do realize that people are signed off work all the time on the grounds of stress?

She spoke about enduring two years of anxiety. That were heightened around press duties. At this point in time she decided it was in her own best interest not to do them. There could be a multitude of reasons why that is. That we will never ever know about. So we can only take her word for it.

Yes, and I would equate that to her withdrawing from the tournament which I already stated is probably the best outcome for all.

Continuing in the tournament but refusing to do the press engagement is a)a potential competitive advantage seeing as no one likes doing them and b)picking and choosing what parts of her job she will do. Unfortunately for her, sport is pretty much the definition of a zero sum game and it is harder to make individual concessions while maintaining a fair competitive landscape.

Perhaps she engaged in a careful discussion with the WTA and the Majors over this but the impression is that she didn't and simply announced she would not do press. That absolutely not a good example to set.

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

her anxiety should first be diagnosed, and when diagnosed, should be used to take time away from the game to rehabilitate until she can return... just like any physical injury. tennis allows players to forgo media when physical injuries are involved, so should also allow the same when mental injuries are involved.

using anxiety (apparently as yet undiagnosed) as a reason not to carry out an employment duty, whilst still carry out other duties and receiving financial reward at the same time is tantamount to receiving a professional edge in a competitive sport. Saying "I'm just not going to subject myself to people that doubt me" is her call, but there will be consequences.

There are many many people out there who have lost jobs / cant apply for jobs because of their mental health issues which would be problematic for the required roles... and in many cases it is severe anxiety in public situations.

There’s no such thing as a diagnosis of anxiety. Some psychologists have thrown a wide variety of symptoms together to come up with a term generalized anxiety disorder. That’s just because everything needs to be catagorized and placed in a box. We all experience anxiety to a greater or lesser degree through out our lives. How can you diagnose something everyone has? There are scales and measures for the distress and disruption it causes. Though believe me, they are about as foolproof as astrology.

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

There’s no such thing as a diagnosis of anxiety. Some psychologists have thrown a wide variety of symptoms together to come up with a term generalized anxiety disorder. That’s just because everything needs to be catagorized and placed in a box. We all experience anxiety to a greater or lesser degree through out our lives. How can you diagnose something everyone has? There are scales and measures for the distress and disruption it causes. Though believe me, they are about as foolproof as astrology.

of course there are medical diagnoses of anxiety issues, its boxed off as a "disorder" when its an issue beyond acceptable health limits.
Anxiety can a symptom of many deeper medical issues.
there's medical thresholds to be met in order to diagnose it, often including a physical examination, and there are scaled metrics to compare diagnoses to.

if you picked up the phone tomorrow to your employer and said "im feeling anxious, i wont be in for a week" you can be damn sure they will look for a medical cert to confirm this.

however, thats the whole point here. If naomi is unable to carry out her professional duties due to her anxiety, then she needs to be stood down until she gets treatment until she can.

Former Former Former

stephen_n wrote: »

It’s not a Slavish devotion to celebrity. I have zero interest in celebrity whatsoever. I have a profound interest in mental health though. What I don’t like is people like you pontificating about other people’s experiences when they know the square route of fvck all about them. Mental health issues have been stigmatized for years. Yet when people come out and talk about theirs. You get idiots on the internet. Trotting out ignorant BS. Like how could someone earning 50 million a year possibly have any issues. It’s attitudes like that which prevent people from talking about their struggles and normalizing this experience. What would be more comforting for a 16 year old fan of a tennis star. Hearing they suffer from anxiety too and it’s ok to talk about it.

I have worked with people who are in high powered jobs, have all the trappings of wealth and success. Yet are absolutely crippled with anxiety. They are destroying themselves physically and mentally to try and hide it from people. Usually doing a fairly good job of that too. Success is not in any way a shield from the impact of stress.

Piers Morgan is a hypocrite of the highest order. Arrogant in the extreme and as you would put it, a complete snowflake when anyone challenges him on it.

I’m attacking your attitude, I’m attacking the way you post. If it’s a persona you create for online forums then so be it. Maybe that’s something for you to look at.

Oh that's OK then, I was worried it was me you had a problem with.

Look, if you're genuinely concerned about mental health, would you not share any concern about the numbers of people throwing out "my mental health" at the drop of a hat? Are you not worried that, far from destigmatising mental health, it will trivalise it? And thus people with really serious issues aren't taken as seriously as they should be?

BTW I never suggested that Naomi Osaka couldn't/shouldn't have issues because she's earning 50 million a year. That's a total misrepresentation. What I said was that if tennis is causing her issues, then maybe she needs to look at different careers.

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

of course there are medical diagnoses of anxiety issues, its boxed off as a "disorder" when its an issue beyond acceptable health limits.
Anxiety can a symptom of many deeper medical issues.
there's medical thresholds to be met in order to diagnose it, often including a physical examination, and there are scaled metrics to compare diagnoses to.

if you picked up the phone tomorrow to your employer and said "im feeling anxious, i wont be in for a week" you can be damn sure they will look for a medical cert to confirm this.

however, thats the whole point here. If naomi is unable to carry out her professional duties due to her anxiety, then she needs to be stood down until she gets treatment until she can.

What is this physical examination that doctors do to diagnose anxiety? I’d be very interested to hear about this. Maybe I could suggest my clients get it done.

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

What is this physical examination that doctors do to diagnose anxiety? I’d be very interested to hear about this. Maybe I could suggest my clients get it done.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/generalized-anxiety-disorder/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20361045

https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/generalised-anxiety-disorder/diagnosis/

maybe you should as a physical exam should be part of the diagnostic process

Zzippy

Former Former Former wrote: »

Oh that's OK then, I was worried it was me you had a problem with.

Look, if you're genuinely concerned about mental health, would you not share any concern about the numbers of people throwing out "my mental health" at the drop of a hat? Are you not worried that, far from destigmatising mental health, it will trivalise it? And thus people with really serious issues aren't taken as seriously as they should be?

BTW I never suggested that Naomi Osaka couldn't/shouldn't have issues because she's earning 50 million a year. That's a total misrepresentation. What I said was that if tennis is causing her issues, then maybe she needs to look at different careers.

Playing tennis is her career. Winning tennis matches is literally her job. You can make the argument that media duties are essential but others will disagree. We have as much right to hear Osaka's views as we do to know the injury status of a Leinster rugby player. If a rugby player can decide to keep his injury status private, why can't Osaka decide to keep her views to herself?

Doing interviews benefits sponsors. Sponsors can choose not to sponsor an athlete who doesn't do interviews. If an athlete decides to risk her income by refusing interviews, that should be her right. She should not be forced to do them at penalty of not being able to compete in a tennis tournament - her actual job. Tournaments benefit from players abilities, their image rights, the interest they bring. Why should they have access to the player's inner thoughts, or to put them in situations that cause anxiety?

stephen_n

Former Former Former wrote: »

Oh that's OK then, I was worried it was me you had a problem with.

Look, if you're genuinely concerned about mental health, would you not share any concern about the numbers of people throwing out "my mental health" at the drop of a hat? Are you not worried that, far from destigmatising mental health, it will trivalise it? And thus people with really serious issues aren't taken as seriously as they should be?

BTW I never suggested that Naomi Osaka couldn't/shouldn't have issues because she's earning 50 million a year. That's a total misrepresentation. What I said was that if tennis is causing her issues, then maybe she needs to look at different careers.

Again you are making yourself arbitrator for someone you know fvck all about. Did it ever occur to you that these people “throwing out” my mental health. Have experiences that you simply know nothing about. How do you know who or what is serious when it comes to mental health? You are making a judgement on her based purely on her being a successful tennis player. Nothing else, you know nothing about her life or her ability to deal with stress.

Tennis isn’t causing her issues. It’s the industry that goes around the tennis that causes her issues. This is also the industry that pays her. If this was just an issue about her marketability and controlling her image like you suggest. Walking away from a Grand Slam tournament she could easily win would be counter intuitive no?

I don’t know you, have never met you and probably never will. I can’t have an opinion of you, only what you post and your online persona. I would really hope the real life version of you is different. It certainly must have more nuance.