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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

[Deleted User]

Carrying on with the discussion as the other thread is full

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055766866/1

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[Deleted User]

I wonder what impact this will have on any potential reopening of rail services in Mayo

Preferred route for new N17 between Knock and Collooney due by year end

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2021/05/27/preferred-route-for-new-n17-between-knock-and-collooney-due-by-year-end/

A PREFERRED option route for the new N17 between Knock and Collooney is expected to be identified before the end of the year.

An update on the N17 Knock to Collooney (Atlantic Economic Corridor) project, which is at phase 2 (options selection) of the TII project management guidelines, has issued this week.

Initial feasible options (the long list) were established and released for public information last October, with a non-statutory public consultation period taking place until January 15, during which time submissions were encouraged from the public.

Preliminary options assessments have been ongoing and are now in the concluding phases.

A parallel shortlisting design analysis is also currently taking place (seeking to amalgamate and optimise certain options). This process will result in the establishment of refined options (i.e. the short list of options), which it is expected will be confirmed towards the middle/end of July, with the next non-statutory public consultation to take place thereafter.

It is also expected that a preferred option will be established by the end of 2021.

Improvements to the N17 between Knock and Collooney will enhance regional connectivity, facilitating and supporting the economy of the Atlantic Economic Corridor (AEC) and the North-West region in general.

Updates on the project are available here: https://n17knockcollooney.ie/

I think the CBA ratio for the closed rail line just fell off a cliff

Decades

Greaney wrote: »

I think this is terrific.:D Furthermore, I think if we want to develop greenways this is the way to get them.

1) This is the type of project that gets the funders attention. They like if folk have done the ground work and begun the research & development in a practical way. This also helps build capacity in the community to develop & maintain the trails as it's likely that they won't have 'staff' in the local authority to begin projects so they rely on small community initiatives.

2) This model is scale-able, which they really like, so you start with a few short options that take you, around the community to places of interest, you put it up on a web/facebook page & do a few 'event's to build profile, maybe you produce a brochure that can be popped into the local library, post office & interpretive center. Then perhaps one can invest in markers & other infra. Certainly my experience is give the council something to 'build on'.

3) This model promotes different communities joining up their routes.

4) Finally, It's transparent to so folk can see what's possible before big money has been spent, so that investment isn't wasted.

What's really important about this project is that it can be the work of one to three people. It doesn't need campaigns that get politicians & public whipped up, but one person who's showing what's possible...

Leaving aside a love of trains (because that's a personal preference for transport), which of your 1-4 does not apply to any of the proposed greenways along the Western Transport Corridor?

happyoutscan

Decades wrote: »

What do you make of this option? https://workinglivingtravellinginireland.com/2020/06/cycle-route-from-thoor-ballylee-to-the-gort-river-walk-in-the-burrenlowlands

There have been a number of great cycle loops around Westport and further afield in Louisburgh for the last decade or longer.

Rarely used as they are not particularly suitable for kids and the terrain can be quite unfriendly to the less physically fit.

The main advantage of Greenways is they are generally flat and much safer for kids.

Greaney

Decades wrote: »

What do you make of this option? https://workinglivingtravellinginireland.com/2020/06/cycle-route-from-thoor-ballylee-to-the-gort-river-walk-in-the-burrenlowlands

I think this is terrific.:D Furthermore, I think if we want to develop greenways this is the way to get them.

1) This is the type of project that gets the funders attention. They like if folk have done the ground work and begun the research & development in a practical way. This also helps build capacity in the community to develop & maintain the trails as it's likely that they won't have 'staff' in the local authority to begin projects so they rely on small community initiatives.

2) This model is scale-able, which they really like, so you start with a few short options that take you, around the community to places of interest, you put it up on a web/facebook page & do a few 'event's to build profile, maybe you produce a brochure that can be popped into the local library, post office & interpretive center. Then perhaps one can invest in markers & other infra. Certainly my experience is give the council something to 'build on'.

3) This model promotes different communities joining up their routes.

4) Finally, It's transparent to so folk can see what's possible before big money has been spent, so that investment isn't wasted.

What's really important about this project is that it can be the work of one to three people. It doesn't need campaigns that get politicians & public whipped up, but one person who's showing what's possible...

eastwest

It's started! Cork today, Swinford to kiltimagh tomorrow. Or sometime.
Government announces new metropolitan rail network for Cork as part of Economic Recovery Plan https://jrnl.ie/5454345

eastwest

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly the type of rail investment needed in the west

Next up, full dual tracking all the way to Dublin, electrification, removal of remaining level crossings, demand stations and hey presto a sub 2hr Galway to Dublin service

Now THAT is investment with a tangible return for society and the economy

Ah no, build a railway to Claremorris instead. Sure what hurry has anyone going up to Dublin, and the important people get paid by the mile anyway.

[Deleted User]

Exactly the type of rail investment needed in the west

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/step-forward-for-e24m-redevelopment-of-ceannt-station/

There’s been a step forward for plans for a major €24m redevelopment of Ceannt Station in the city.

The capital project will include the full replacement of the existing station roof, the upgrade of the southern facade and the creation of a new main entrance to the station.

Waiting areas for rail and bus passengers will also be upgraded, while three additional train platforms are to be developed.

Next up, full dual tracking all the way to Dublin, electrification, removal of remaining level crossings, demand stations and hey presto a sub 2hr Galway to Dublin service

Now THAT is investment with a tangible return for society and the economy

Decades

Greaney wrote: »

Indeed lovely as the bleak beauty of a bog may be, it does not compare to the Atlantic or Irish sea coastline. A 15 mile cycle through a bog with nary a town to break up the route may sound like a good idea to someone who's going to workout on a Sunday morning, but sounds like a bit of a slog to a pleasure cyclist.

Some of the reviews are great, but these little comments would suggest there are better options. I suspect Tuam to Athenry wouldn't be one of them

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attraction_Review-g315894-d8747758-Reviews-or10-Old_Rail_Trail-Mullingar_County_Westmeath.html

What do you make of this option? https://workinglivingtravellinginireland.com/2020/06/cycle-route-from-thoor-ballylee-to-the-gort-river-walk-in-the-burrenlowlands

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Spin it whatever way ya want, I've no interest in engaging further with your objective of crapping over other greenways as some kind of argument for something.

so a cycling advocate posts a link to reviews of a greenway and you're complaining because those reviews don't suit you.

[Deleted User]

Spin it whatever way ya want, I've no interest in engaging further with your objective of crapping over other greenways as some kind of argument for something.

Greaney

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for providing a link that shows you took many of those quotes out of context or selectively only quoted portions of reviews

Woodward & Bernstein your writings ain't

I put in the link to be balanced. I think it's telling that folk, even in the good reviews, talked about the lack of businesses & services along the way. Also, many of the reviews are from folk who give it the thumbs up as a great place to exercise, not big spenders in my experience.

[Deleted User]

Greaney wrote: »

Selective quoting

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attraction_Review-g315894-d8747758-Reviews-or10-Old_Rail_Trail-Mullingar_County_Westmeath.html

Thanks for providing a link that shows you took many of those quotes out of context or selectively only quoted portions of reviews

Woodward & Bernstein your writings ain't

Greaney

end of the road wrote: »

no point in spending money on expensive bike motor ways for the odd local, after all.

Indeed lovely as the bleak beauty of a bog may be, it does not compare to the Atlantic or Irish sea coastline. A 15 mile cycle through a bog with nary a town to break up the route may sound like a good idea to someone who's going to workout on a Sunday morning, but sounds like a bit of a slog to a pleasure cyclist. There's been criticism by some of the Mullingar cycle route on TripAdvisor like....

'While loving the wide, smooth, level and traffic-free surface, we felt it lacks something. I'm really surprised that more businesses aren't setting up cafes etc along the way.'

'We might visit this greenway again, but maybe with friends as it's otherwise a little boring. '

'.... there are no sheltering facilities (the stretch we did) and no chance to stop and sit down or have a picnic.'

'...Good greenway but a little uninteresting.'

'Scenery is not spectacular but it's the Midlands, what do you expect?

'...it has one major defect! It's so straight and hill-less it's boring so I would suggest a Walkman and ear phones.'

'...not much to see or do.'

'Cons: Bland and uninteresting. No signage whatsoever about the history of the railway or the stations. Nothing at all to inform the traveller - particularly those from abroad. .... Even local businesses seem disinterested. '

Some of the reviews are great, but these little comments would suggest there are better options. I suspect Tuam to Athenry wouldn't be one of them

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attraction_Review-g315894-d8747758-Reviews-or10-Old_Rail_Trail-Mullingar_County_Westmeath.html

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

Or look at Kilmacthomas in Waterford. Falling apart three tears ago, now flying. And because of the Waterford greenway, the county is now seen as a good fit for tech companies who look for quality of life factors in order to be able to recruit and retain staff.
But try explaining that to a SF/WOT councillor!

tech companies have been in waterford for as long as i can remember.
nothing to do with the greenway.

Decades wrote: »

West on Trackers are like the parish priest, and his ageing and diminishing hareem of apostolics, trying to banish liberalism, or the Bull McCabe beating back the waves screaming "leave him alone".

you are factually incorrect.

Decades wrote: »

Walking, running and cycling, as elements of a quality life, are unstoppable forces. There will be greenways. Each of the greenway campaigns will know their own "special moment" when their particular proposal was cemented and accepted. Pennies drop. It's really just a matter of time. Ridiculously, it won't be Minister Eamon Ryan that delivers (either rail or greenway), but that would be Eamon for you.

walking and running have existed since man existed, and cycling has existed since the first bike was invented, so i'm not sure what your point is, because they certainly aren't new inventions.
there will be some greenways, but going forward it's likely they will you know, actually have to offer something and be shown before hand that they will offer something, before they will get built.
no point in spending money on expensive bike motor ways for the odd local, after all.

Sam Russell

It is not possible that the Athenry to Tuam railway will be approved within the next decade nor is it likely it will be approved in the following decade. There are too many projects ahead of it. The Greenway is small change compared with it.

It is worth investing in a Greenway for a timescale of a decade because, if it is successful, it can be moved to accommodate the railway, and if it is not, the railway can be reinstated, and all the work done in providing the Greenway is going to make the reinstatement much easier because fencing, vegetation, access points, etc. will make the construction easier.

So, build the Greenway now, and see how it goes.

Decades

West on Trackers are like the parish priest, and his ageing and diminishing hareem of apostolics, trying to banish liberalism, or the Bull McCabe beating back the waves screaming "leave him alone". Walking, running and cycling, as elements of a quality life, are unstoppable forces. There will be greenways. Each of the greenway campaigns will know their own "special moment" when their particular proposal was cemented and accepted. Pennies drop. It's really just a matter of time. Ridiculously, it won't be Minister Eamon Ryan that delivers (either rail or greenway), but that would be Eamon for you.

monument

westtip wrote: »

SF/WOT it does have certain ring to it and lets face it they are the only political party that openly supports the railway coming back. It must be the one part of their political mantra that has so limited community support that it could actually leak them a few votes in Galway and Mayo, probably not enough to damage them, not so much in Sligo as the greenway is a done deal there, SF/WOT have tried to oppose it at council level and been put in their place, mind you SF/WOT may yet play an anti-community spoiler card there.

You’ve been warned before and there’s been recent in-thread warnings — banned for a week for trolling / disruptive posting (ie “SF/WOT”)

— moderator

eastwest

happyoutscan wrote: »

For anyone unsure of what a simple Greenway can bring, go and visit Newport. A derelict, downtrodden and unassuming village 10 years ago that is now flying it (as is Mulranny further along).

More life in these villages than an empty rail could ever bring.

Or look at Kilmacthomas in Waterford. Falling apart three tears ago, now flying. And because of the Waterford greenway, the county is now seen as a good fit for tech companies who look for quality of life factors in order to be able to recruit and retain staff.
But try explaining that to a SF/WOT councillor!

westtip

happyoutscan wrote: »

For anyone unsure of what a simple Greenway can bring, go and visit Newport. A derelict, downtrodden and unassuming village 10 years ago that is now flying it (as is Mulranny further along).

More life in these villages than an empty rail could ever bring.

Doesn't make any difference how much any of us may scream that message out SF/WOT will not listen, But yes you are so right as so many others over the years have said over and over and over and over.........ad nauseum, they will not listen and would prefer to have empty trains twice a day and a freight train bringing dirty waste into the west of ireland to clean up other peoples mess.

happyoutscan

For anyone unsure of what a simple Greenway can bring, go and visit Newport. A derelict, downtrodden and unassuming village 10 years ago that is now flying it (as is Mulranny further along).

More life in these villages than an empty rail could ever bring.

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to make it official

But, but but but but doesn't West on Track have the unanimous support of all county and city councils in the West......Oh I forgot Sligo coco and now Galway city council officially back the greenway option......:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

Just to make it official

westtip

Yep DC youi never know and they may achieve what they are after, can't see it personally and if it does happen it will the ghost train of ireland. There is simply not the volume of freight/passengers to give the idea any credence, but you never knosw.

[Deleted User]

They may actually get further phases reopened and more power to them if they do, I'll enjoy cycling on the greenway that will be alongside the reopened sections.

The reality is though that its not likely to happen for the next 50+ years, at best, so may as well use the route for something else in the meantime.

westtip

Sam Russell wrote: »

West On Track.

A group attempting to revive the long closed sections of the Victorian rural railways through very under populated sections of the remote countryside of East Galway and East Mayo, linking small towns to other even smaller towns.

end of the road wrote: »

west on track.
they are a campaign group campaigning for the reopening of the long distance regional main line between athenry and claremorris in co. mayo, and eventually the branch to sligo so as to open up a rail route through the west, which in turn will allow an east west cross country rail link avoiding dublin, allowing for greater journey opportunities via rail and bring regional and cross country connectivity.

Take your pick, the former pretty much gives you the reality of what they hope to achieve, the latter is the same without the reality applied and the view taken with very rose coloured spectacles worn at the time.

end of the road

dinneenp wrote: »

What does WOT stand for?.....

west on track.
they are a campaign group campaigning for the reopening of the long distance regional main line between athenry and claremorris in co. mayo, and eventually the branch to sligo so as to open up a rail route through the west, which in turn will allow an east west cross country rail link avoiding dublin, allowing for greater journey opportunities via rail and bring regional and cross country connectivity.

MayoForSam

Decades wrote: »

Nice to see some Bob Dylan lyrics slipping in for the day that's in it.

If the WRC was a person, then it would probably be like the loner in 'Like A Rolling Stone", fallen from grace, not talking so loud or seeming so proud anymore. Bob could have written a fine song about the travails of our dearly beloved route.

Decades

Sam Russell wrote: »

It says it in the post - a complete unknown.

Nice to see some Bob Dylan lyrics slipping in for the day that's in it.

Sam Russell

Decades wrote: »

What's his name again?

It says it in the post - a complete unknown.

Decades

eastwest wrote: »

It's too much of a coincidence that the SF MEP in question, a complete unknown who was their sixth choice for the seat vacated by Matt Carthy, would be ordered to spend the GUE -ALDE advertising money on trying to.persuade mayo and Galway councillors to block a greenway. This money was provided by his EP group to promote the group in the constituency, but he was obviously told to use it to try to bolster support for WOT in the face of a huge surge in local support for the greenway in east mayo and Galway. His seat is shaky, he has poor visibility across the constituency and could really have used that funding to better advantage instead of using it to promote a daft option that isn't going to happen and that the population doesn't even want.
It is clear to any calm analyst that SF/WOT was operating as one entity in this case, at least.

What's his name again?