nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

AndyBoBandy

peposhi wrote: »

Ready to part with 75% of your car lol

Nice photoshop skills…..

the_amazing_raisin

peposhi wrote: »

Ready to part with 75% of your car lol

Dear lord, that hub looks well thought out

Are you sure it's an ESB hub? Maybe they put the wrong company logo on the chargers

peposhi

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Let’s not kid ourselves here…… we all know it’s going to be 4 CCS & 4 CHAdeMO…….

I’d bet my car on it.

Ready to part with 75% of your car lol

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

April Update
CCS/CHAdeMO split
My stats say, over the last 2 weeks:
CHAdeMO has been occupied 40.6% of the time. (7.41 weeks of use)
CCS the other 59.4% of the time (10.86 weeks of use)

Unit counts
131 Fast charge units installed (Up 6)
533 Slow charge AC units installed (down 10 - all are AC-DC replacements, some were 2 single socket AC units being replaced with DC)
268 of the newer 22kW AC units are now in place.
131 of the old units yet to be replaced, and 15 of those single socket AC units to be replaced too.

AC updates to the new Evolve Smart T unit
Dock Road, Dunmore East, Waterford
Wolfe Tone Square, Tubbercurry, Sligo
Public Car Park, Strand Road, Falcarragh, Donegal
Public Car Park, Nailors Row, Buncrana, Donegal
Main Street, Belmullet, Mayo
Church Street, Wicklow Town, Wicklow

AC units upgraded to DC - 29 of the 50 delivered Bit of a vague number, this is 29 of those units installed, but they're being installed at the "hubs" too.
Blackhall Car Park, Off Mount Street, Mullingar, Westmeath
Marian Hall Car Park, Off William Street, Birr, Offaly
Garda Station Car Park, Off Lymington Road, Enniscorthy, Wexford
Barrack Lane, New Ross, Wexford
Public Car Park, Vicar Street, Tuam, Galway
Market Street, Carrickmacross, Monaghan
Fire Brigade Car Park, New Road, Kinsale, Cork
Dolphin's Place, Youghal, Cork

New FCP
None

May Update
CCS/CHAdeMO split
My stats say, over the last 2 weeks:
CHAdeMO has been occupied 38.6% of the time. (9.20 weeks of use)
CCS the other 61.4% of the time (14.65 weeks of use)

Unit counts
133 Fast charge units installed (Up 2)
531 Slow charge AC units installed (down 2 - all are AC-DC replacements, some were 2 single socket AC units being replaced with DC)

272 of the newer 22kW AC units are now in place.
127 of the old units yet to be replaced, and 15 of those single socket AC units to be replaced too.

AC updates to the new Evolve Smart T unit - Seems I might be missing a couple of these (blanch didn't pop up for me). My best guess is some AC units are being reused in new locations, when their original site gets a DC upgrade (Blanch unit was originally in Skibbereen afaik)
Town Hall Car Park, Off Barrow Track, Carlow Town, Carlow
Quinsborough Road, Bray, Wicklow
Bachelor's Walk, Wicklow, Wicklow
Hollybank Road, Drumcondra, Dublin 9
Mill Road, Blanchardstown, Dublin

AC units upgraded to DC - 31 of the 50 delivered Bit of a vague number, this is 31 of those units installed, but they're being installed at the "hubs" too.
Norton House Car Park, Cork Road, Skibbereen, Co. Cork
Off Haggard Street, Trim, Meath

New FCP
None

JohnC.

While ESB struggle to come up with something that can use the title of hub, Audi develop a 6 car hub, which is mobile.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/audi-has-mobile-electric-car-charging-plans-1.4576923

the_amazing_raisin

MJohnston wrote: »

Aye, but what I meant was that even if we stick with DC chargers, you have rapid improvements in charge point tech, rapid improvements in battery tech, rapid improvements in onboard charger tech, etc.

I dunno, I feel like we're going to hit a saturation point for passenger cars soon. Something between 60-80kWh batteries will probably be standard

Charging speeds will improve, but you'll be limited by battery size and chemistry

I think what will push the envelope will be large SUVs and pickup trucks and then vans and good vehicles/buses. They'll need much larger batteries and hence more powerful chargers

I'd say the current crop of 350kW chargers could handle an F150 Lightning with 150kWh battery pretty well

But certainly something like a HGV with a 500-700kWh battery isn't going to be feasible with a 350kW charger

MJohnston

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

You can do a bit both, for example even just putting down underground ducting and pedastals for chargers makes installation work down the line much easier

Even if the future is battery swaps or mobile robotic chargers, it'll take a while for them to catch on and DC chargers will be around for a while since they'll be relatively cheaper than any new technologies

Aye, but what I meant was that even if we stick with DC chargers, you have rapid improvements in charge point tech, rapid improvements in battery tech, rapid improvements in onboard charger tech, etc.

the_amazing_raisin

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah, putting the literal groundwork in makes sense, for sure.

It’s a tough cookie though, there are so many concurrently rapidly advancing pieces of the technology puzzle and no slowdown in sight.

You can do a bit both, for example even just putting down underground ducting and pedastals for chargers makes installation work down the line much easier

Even if the future is battery swaps or mobile robotic chargers, it'll take a while for them to catch on and DC chargers will be around for a while since they'll be relatively cheaper than any new technologies

MJohnston

Yeah, putting the literal groundwork in makes sense, for sure.

It’s a tough cookie though, there are so many concurrently rapidly advancing pieces of the technology puzzle and no slowdown in sight.

liamog

MJohnston wrote: »

The problem imo is that future-proofed charging infrastructure, in terms of charging rate, is going to cost disproportionately more now than it will in 5 years or so.

The Fastned view is that it makes sense to do the ground work now, things like designing the grid connection and transformers which will be required for a long time, but then under provision the actual charging equipment so that you don't end up wasting money on obsolete tech. You want to balance the level of service required. Imagine if eCars had rolled out large 6 50kW chargers at each of the motorway services in 2017. Right now we'd probably have people demanding they replace them with two 150kW units so they can charge their ID.4 quickly enough to move on. Next year they'll be an Ioniq 5 owner demanding it's replace with a single 300kW so they can do the same.

MJohnston

I'm going to come back to a point I made a while ago: I genuinely think long-term planning as it relates to charging infrastructure would largely mean not investing a lot in charging infrastructure yet.

The problem imo is that future-proofed charging infrastructure, in terms of charging rate, is going to cost disproportionately more now than it will in 5 years or so.

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

You're nitpicking terminology here...

In 2021 FCP = 150+ kW DC. That's what I meant.

Your on a thread discussing an operator that uses the term FCP to refer to a Fast Charge Point which they define as ~50kW. They refer to their 150kW chargers as a High Power Chargers (HPC). If you were discussing a network in the UK a Fast Charge Point refers to a charge point that is capable of 32A charging instead of 16A.

The terminology is important, new 50kW chargers should not be installed anymore on motorways and interurbans. eCars should be installing distributed chargers (like it appears they are doing at J14 Mayfield) where the charge point and charger are decoupled. There are a few different options available ranging from the current 2x75kW units eCars have installed, to ones such as the Kempower units that consist of multiple 40kW units. That way it doesn't matter which plug an I3 connects to, the other charging plugs can take advantage of the capacity made available by its lower charging requirement.

McGiver wrote: »

Petrol stations/towns/suburbs - 50 kW DC is not the most suitable, hard do anything in 20-30 minutes (shopping), 22 kW DC would be more suitable. Btw any sort of DC isn't that widespread in this setting in the more developed EV markets. Unlikely we'll see a massive DC deployment in this setting in Ireland. Unless wireless charging becomes cheap and widespread.

We actually covered that in an old thread, I found multiple examples of DC charging stations located in towns in Norway and The Netherlands. Turns out the mature markets are heading that way, as are Tesla with their lower power urban superchargers. Remember your talking about a 50kW charger for a car with a 50kWh+ battery. Not providing them for 24kWh Leafs.

McGiver

liamog wrote:

FCPs should never be put on motorways.

You're nitpicking terminology here...

In 2021 FCP = 150+ kW DC. That's what I meant.

liamog wrote:

The hierarchy is straightforward, 150kW+ for motorways and interurbans, 50kW for town and suburbs, 11kW AC for destination and overnight charging.

Motorways - 150 kW+ AND 50 kW collocated - see Germany, Norway, Austria for that in real life. The 50 kW DC is neccesary as a backup. And 50 kW DC is better than nothing even for 100 kWh+ cars while 150+ kW (well ecars "150" is in fact 75 kW) chargers are occupied. And older cars are fine with 50 kW too.

Petrol stations/towns/suburbs - 50 kW DC is not the most suitable, hard do anything in 20-30 minutes (shopping), 22 kW DC would be more suitable. Btw any sort of DC isn't that widespread in this setting in the more developed EV markets. Unlikely we'll see a massive DC deployment in this setting in Ireland. Unless wireless charging becomes cheap and widespread.

Cities, towns, malls, carparks, hotels - should be littered with 11 kW AC (see Netherlands, Norway, Austria), I agree. 22 kW AC is a waste of power.

liamog wrote:

The infra has to be built for the next 100,000 cars not the current fleet of slow DC charging vehicles.

I think we all agree on that. But can you remind me of any project associated with the Irish Government that successfully built any infrastructure with this kind of long term planning incorporated in the design?....

McGiver

cannco253 wrote:

I wonder if they were ID.3 owners using up the free credits they got last year? What EVs were using Ionity out of curiosity?

Nope.

Free DC 50 - ENiro, Hyundai Ioniq
Ionity - Audi Etron, Tesla M3, BMW i3, Ioniq, Opel mokka-e

cannco253

eCars FB

We have upgraded the AC standard 22kW charger in Blanchardstown to a new, more reliable unit.

&#55357;&#56524; You can find it at Mill Road, Blanchardstown (Charger ID C8YK0)

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

Ditto. "In the interest of balance" or some BS like that they'll keep it 50:50 rather than use the metrics they have to guide them.

Your metrics would be more than sufficient for them to decide on a 6/2 split, while leaving the old triple head as a buffer for whoever wants/needs it...

Black_Knight

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Let’s not kid ourselves here…… we all know it’s going to be 4 CCS & 4 CHAdeMO…….

I’d bet my car on it.

Ditto. "In the interest of balance" or some BS like that they'll keep it 50:50 rather than use the metrics they have to guide them.

[Deleted User]

Oh the pain, watching Gen 1 Leafs charging on ChaDeMo on a 150 Kw charger sucking 30 Kw or less!!!

Having said that there are slower charging CCS cars such as the 22 Kwh BMW i3.

I suppose though if the lads in charge in Ecars could read this they'd probably be saying to themselves " that Mad_Lad bollix is never happy" lol

But I suppose it's better than the situation in Kilcullen where a Leaf 24 Kwh is charging at 30 Kw on the 150 Kw and a Model 3 has to sit at the 50 Kw now 26 Kw charger, I reported it to the ESB which said they'd investigate but need more People to check and report if they spot the same issue, 26 Kw, fluctuates anywhere to 48 Kw but mostly 26 Kw, then as I discovered by accident, when you swipe the card it goes to 48 Kw and stays there until the screen goes back to standby, very strange issue.

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

Certainly there no justification for 4 CHAdeMO plugs. 2 seems sufficient, especially if the existing triple head unit remains.

Let’s not kid ourselves here…… we all know it’s going to be 4 CCS & 4 CHAdeMO…….

I’d bet my car on it.

AndyBoBandy

I saw a post in a Facebook group that said some of the units have been installed, so anyone passing please stop in for some pictures…

Black_Knight

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not sure J14 is a great place to install a so called Hub ? there are already Ionity chargers not that far away, I really think these should have been placed much further west or south west.

In my opinion, J23 would have been far better place to put them considering how appalling the infrastructure is that direction.

What's this hub going to have 4 x 150 units which are already outdated or 2 x 50 and 2 x 150 ? load balancing ? the current 150 Kw share with ChADeMo which is ridiculous in this day and age.

I believe they'll be 150kW units only, though I can't put my finger on why I believe that. Either speculation or I inferred it from ESB at the ievoa meeting last year.

Certainly there no justification for 4 CHAdeMO plugs. 2 seems sufficient, especially if the existing triple head unit remains.

[Deleted User]

I'm not sure J14 is a great place to install a so called Hub ? there are already Ionity chargers not that far away, I really think these should have been placed much further west or south west.

In my opinion, J23 would have been far better place to put them considering how appalling the infrastructure is that direction.

What's this hub going to have 4 x 150 units which are already outdated or 2 x 50 and 2 x 150 ? load balancing ? the current 150 Kw share with ChADeMo which is ridiculous in this day and age.

peposhi

innrain wrote: »

Stopped @J14 to take some pictures. There is nothing visible to report except that there were 2 cars charging an ID4 and a Niro one on the Type2 and a third one waiting.

3 of the fancy looking new ESB chargers are already in place. I’d say by the end of the week all installation work should be finished and soon the hub should be live to release the pressure (I often see 2-3 cars waiting on each other to charge at the current old working triple head unit)...

kanuseeme

McGiver wrote: »

Arrived in Athlone circle K at 12pm today, business day alright, so thought it would be empty.

Free Circle K charger - 1 car charging, second waiting, I was the third. So I went Ionity, withing few minutes all 4 bays full, 1 car waiting!

This is only pre warning of what will happen next. The infrastructure will collapse. Ionity will need to to double the number of bays. Ecars are totally bonkers they're building infrastructure for 2018 not for 2021 and ahead.... They should be putting 3 chargers on each site NOW.

Its only waiting 10 minutes or so, I don't see anything really to complain about, in fact they should ban ice and phev's tomorrow, that will sort it out.:D:D:D

Black_Knight

McGiver wrote: »

This is only pre warning of what will happen next. The infrastructure will collapse. Ionity will need to to double the number of bays. Ecars are totally bonkers they're building infrastructure for 2018 not for 2021 and ahead.... They should be putting 3 chargers on each site NOW.

Wait until you see the 4 cobwebbed CHAdeMO plugs at Mayfield. All my stats tell me there's flip all desire for 70kW CHAdeMO charging, and far far more usage of 150kW CCS charging.

charlieIRL wrote: »

In all the times I've been out there, I rarely see a car charging at the ionity points.

You do know there are 4 more >50kWh chargers in Athlone as well? 2 at N6 Centre (1 high speed), 1 at KFC and one beside the Town Centre shopping centre

Unless i'm going into Athlone, I wouldn't consider these useful at all. A good 5-10 minute detour both ways for a 50kW unit vs the 150/175 ones at Kilmartins or Ionity. It's wasted time to waste more time at a 50kW unit.

markpb wrote: »

Perhaps an acceptance that FCPs won't be considered "fast" for very long? 150s on motorways make the most sense to me. 50s make sense in towns where there are facilities like shopping and cafes so you can kill time waiting to charge. Then 22s in shopping centres and 7s in car parks and train stations.

50kW in town can make sense where there's 150kW on major roads nearby, but the 45 minute soft limit (fee induced limit) probably needs to be looked at in the future for those instances. Fair green in Athlone (beside the town centre) is an example. A nice few faster chargers around for those who splash and dash, but a slower 50kW unit for those who do a good hour-90 minute shop in the town centre.

slave1 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with 50kW chargers along motorways, not looking for a full charge, just enough to get home and with modern EV ranges only a 10-15 minute stop at a 50 would be plenty.
Herself had a 492km trip yesterday and just needed 18minutes at a 50 to give a nice buffer and got home with plenty to spare, a 5 minute stop would have got her home but after a coffee/loo break it just so happened to turn out to be 18minutes

Gotta think of them leafs/ 150kW is foreign to them. They have a use though as you say. If i'm stopping for 30+ minutes to grab something to eat, I could be happy to take the 50kW unit, rather than the 150kW and have to unplug and move mid meal.

I really hope this bump in usage is being used to guide eCars rollout of more units. It's not, but I hope. :rolleyes:

slave1

Nothing wrong with 50kW chargers along motorways, not looking for a full charge, just enough to get home and with modern EV ranges only a 10-15 minute stop at a 50 would be plenty.
Herself had a 492km trip yesterday and just needed 18minutes at a 50 to give a nice buffer and got home with plenty to spare, a 5 minute stop would have got her home but after a coffee/loo break it just so happened to turn out to be 18minutes

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

FCPs should never be put on motorways.

The hierarchy is straightforward, 150kW+ for motorways and interurbans, 50kW for town and suburbs, 11kW AC for destination and overnight charging. The infra has to be built for the next 100,000 cars not the current fleet of slow DC charging vehicles.

I agree, 50kW units at motorway services should just be there to provide a cheaper alternative for slower charging cars so they don't block higher power units

There's a fair number of folks who'll never have home charging, for them 45 mins on a 50kW while they're doing their shopping is probably enough for a weeks driving

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

All FCPs should be on the motorway. What ecars we thinking putting FCPs in towns....

FCPs should never be put on motorways.

The hierarchy is straightforward, 150kW+ for motorways and interurbans, 50kW for town and suburbs, 11kW AC for destination and overnight charging. The infra has to be built for the next 100,000 cars not the current fleet of slow DC charging vehicles.

markpb

McGiver wrote: »

All FCPs should be on the motorway. What ecars we thinking putting FCPs in towns....

Perhaps an acceptance that FCPs won't be considered "fast" for very long? 150s on motorways make the most sense to me. 50s make sense in towns where there are facilities like shopping and cafes so you can kill time waiting to charge. Then 22s in shopping centres and 7s in car parks and train stations.

McGiver

charlieIRL wrote:

You do know there are 4 more >50kWh chargers in Athlone as well? 2 at N6 Centre (1 high speed), 1 at KFC and one beside the Town Centre shopping centre

I know there are. But nobody has time for detours running around like a rat and going counterflow as well.

All FCPs should be on the motorway. What ecars we thinking putting FCPs in towns....