Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

Mic 1972 wrote: »

whichever floats your boat mate

So what changes do you think would be a good place to start so that cops stop feeling that the system as it is leads them to carry out some acts which they might have been told are appropriate but are clearly not.

If you were chief of a police force or Mayor of a city, how would you go about making these changes?

Tell me how wrote: »

You don't know how discussions work either it seems.
Or else I am correct in my assumption.

whichever floats your boat mate

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I dont owe you an opinion, you can like or dislike what i say
But i admire your imagination

You don't know how discussions work either it seems.
Or else I am correct in my assumption.

Tell me how wrote: »

And your ability to recognize the corner you backed yourself in to and are now refusing to give an opinion one way or the other.

I dont owe you an opinion, you can like or dislike what i say
But i admire your imagination

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I stand by what I said, but I admire your ability to project

And your ability to recognize the corner you backed yourself in to and are now refusing to give an opinion one way or the other.

Tell me how wrote: »

I didn't say you said anything, I asked a question.

If you think he has a point, you must think the system needs to be reformed, or it is ok as it is.

Which is it?

I stand by what I said, but I admire your ability to project

Deleted User wrote: »

Except the strength of his argument in this case is incredibly weak..

it's weak in both cases, that's why he pulled it

Mic 1972 wrote: »

that's not what I said
he has a point in pulling the same logic

Except the strength of his argument in this case is incredibly weak..

Mic 1972 wrote: »

that's not what I said
he has a point in pulling the same logic

I didn't say you said anything, I asked a question.

If you think he has a point, you must think the system needs to be reformed, or it is ok as it is.

Which is it?

Tell me how wrote: »

So do you agree with him and would support calls for the reform of policing in the US?

that's not what I said
he has a point in pulling the same logic

Let's be clear, I'm not in favor of de-funding the police, more cops would be the better options for certain neighborhoods
But I do appreciate the irony of Chauvin pulling the exact same argument about the failed system that makes people criminals, because that's the same argument used to defend drug dealers, looters and the likes.

Overheal

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Same argument, broken system makes people criminals
He has a point

the system didn't make him choke that guy out. The system urged him to put Floyd in the recovery position - so did at least one of the other officers on scene, along with a dozen or so bystanders. The only thing the system did was call him out for a fake $20, it was his call to escalate it to murder.

If he means something else is broken he should be more specific.

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Same argument, broken system makes people criminals
He has a point

So do you agree with him and would support calls for the reform of policing in the US?

Overheal wrote: »

Quite the opposite, arguing that the system was too broken to defend murder by badge.

Same argument, broken system makes people criminals
He has a point

Overheal

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Well, he's pulling the same argument that "oppressed" people are using when looking for excuses to their misbehavior

Quite the opposite, arguing that the system was too broken to defend murder by badge.

Overheal wrote: »

Well this is gas. Chauvin is arguing he be sentenced to time already served for murdering George Floyd because, “ his lack of criminal history, his amenability to probation, to the unusual facts of this case, and to his being a product of a ‘broken’ system.”

Absolutely hilarious. I didn’t get qualified immunity so the system is broken help meeeee

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/live-trials-current/george-floyd-death/convicted-murderer-derek-chauvin-says-he-should-get-probation-instead-of-prison-because-the-system-is-broken/

Well, he's pulling the same argument that "oppressed" people are using when looking for excuses to their misbehavior

Overheal

Well this is gas. Chauvin is arguing he be sentenced to time already served for murdering George Floyd because, “ his lack of criminal history, his amenability to probation, to the unusual facts of this case, and to his being a product of a ‘broken’ system.”

Absolutely hilarious. I didn’t get qualified immunity so the system is broken help meeeee

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/live-trials-current/george-floyd-death/convicted-murderer-derek-chauvin-says-he-should-get-probation-instead-of-prison-because-the-system-is-broken/

Tell me how wrote: »

Todd Wright wasn't fired. Maybe you should take more time to read posts also. And your view that this is not evidence of systemic racism is choosing to not look at the likely reality of someone with such views being in a position of authority over other police officers.

No, it's accepting that one racist individual doesn't make a system racist. He 'resigned' in the sense that had he not resigned he would've been fired.

Tell me how wrote: »

I expect that a large number of the nearly 18,000 police forces in America are likely to have engrained elements which are rooted in prejudiced views and actions being carried out against some people in the communities in which they police.

And no, I am not saying that every police force or officer is racist, or that the exact, irrefutable figure is possible to determine, I am saying that because there are some action is needed, you are saying that because there are unknowns, everyone should get the benefit of the doubt until they categorically prove that they are so.

I'm not suggesting you are saying every police officer is racist, I don't know why you felt to add that. I'm asking you to give a guesstimate as to what proportion you suspect are.

As regards to yours last point. Yes, people should get the benefit of the doubt, less they have some sort of dubious history themselves.

Deleted User wrote: »

Joe Arpaio also a great element of racist law enforcement that the former president pardoned and used use for campaigning purposes.

Exactly.

Refused to stop racial profiling and when convicted for disobeying the court order for doing so, the President of the country pardoned him.

The same President who police force unions came out in support of and who aligned himself with a racist organization.

Hhhhh wrote: »

I gave a hypothetical like you asked:

Maybe if you weren't so quick jumping to conclusions you would've read my post.

Where have I claimed there is no evidence of individual racism in police forces? More conclusion jumping, and this based off literally two interactions, considering you 'don't remember' our last ones.

I already answered you question, see above.

What's this got to do with police being trained to be racist, or being trained to engage in racist activities?

Which is not evidence of 'systematic racism'.

No, when these people engage in racism, as per your example above, they get fired. The answer, which is what you are doing, is assuming every perceived negative encounter a black person has with the police, particularly if the policeman is white, is a result of racism. What percentage of the police would you estimate are racists, because you must believe it to be quite high?

Todd Wright wasn't fired. Maybe you should take more time to read posts also. And your view that this is not evidence of systemic racism is choosing to not look at the likely reality of someone with such views being in a position of authority over other police officers.

I expect that a large number of the nearly 18,000 police forces in America are likely to have engrained elements which are rooted in prejudiced views and actions being carried out against some people in the communities in which they police.

And no, I am not saying that every police force or officer is racist, or that the exact, irrefutable figure is possible to determine, I am saying that because there are some action is needed, you are saying that because there are unknowns, everyone should get the benefit of the doubt until they categorically prove that they are so.

Joe Arpaio also a great example of racist law enforcement that the former president pardoned and used use for campaigning purposes.

Tell me how wrote: »

Sure, I'm jumping to conclusions, and you're keeping your head in the sand.
That's twice you have declined to give an example of how a racist cop (which no one is denying exists) is likely to behave in a racist manner which is not obvious so we can then see how you would suggest they be held to account for that.

I gave a hypothetical like you asked:

Hypothetically you could have a cop who constantly stops mainly black people simply to hassle them and piss them off because he's a racist.

Maybe if you weren't so quick jumping to conclusions you would've read my post.

Tell me how wrote: »

You are trying to deflect so that you and others can continue to claim that there is no evidence of individual or systemic racism within police forces.

Where have I claimed there is no evidence of individual racism in police forces? More conclusion jumping, and this based off literally two interactions, considering you 'don't remember' our last ones.

Tell me how wrote: »

I still want you to answer the question asked, but given you are trying to dance around it on the basis that it is hypothetical related, here's a specific case for you.

I already answered you question, see above.

Tell me how wrote: »

Arkansas Sherriff resigns

He was Sherriff in a county which is 25% black, twice the national average, do you think he was likely to be have treated all black people he engaged with in a fair manner given his engrained beliefs? How do you think that deputies out of his office would have been encouraged to behave towards some members of the community?

What's this got to do with police being trained to be racist, or being trained to engage in racist activities?

Tell me how wrote: »

But note, it took a recording from his private life to ultimately result in his removal (resigning, not firing) from his role after he insisted he wasn't a racist.

Which is not evidence of 'systematic racism'.

Tell me how wrote: »

If Todd Wright had come in to the news for being excessively forceful in a traffic stop, you guys would likely argue there was no evidence of him being racist, and it was just people looking to inject racism in to a case where there was none. So how should society deal with cases of racists holding positions of authority within police bodies? Ignore it, until there is clear and unambiguous evidence that it exists? Or be forceful in ensuring that it will be sought out and removed?

No, when these people engage in racism, as per your example above, they get fired. The answer, which is what you are doing, is assuming every perceived negative encounter a black person has with the police, particularly if the policeman is white, is a result of racism. What percentage of the police would you estimate are racists, because you must believe it to be quite high?

Hhhhh wrote: »

I know you don't remember me, that's the point. You jump to conclusions about people immediately if they don't agree with you.

Usually hypotheticals in these discussions need to be realistic. Yours isn't.

Hypothetically you could have a cop who constantly stops mainly black people simply to hassle them and piss them off because he's a racist. Hypothetically this cop could also be black, hypothetically he could even be from Mars. Hypothetically.

Sure, I'm jumping to conclusions, and you're keeping your head in the sand.
That's twice you have declined to give an example of how a racist cop (which no one is denying exists) is likely to behave in a racist manner which is not obvious so we can then see how you would suggest they be held to account for that.

You are trying to deflect so that you and others can continue to claim that there is no evidence of individual or systemic racism within police forces.

I still want you to answer the question asked, but given you are trying to dance around it on the basis that it is hypothetical related, here's a specific case for you.

Arkansas Sherriff resigns

On Friday morning, Arkansas County Sheriff Todd Wright resigned from his position following the circulation of a five-minute audio recording in which he used the n-word, an anti-Black racial slur, nine times to describe a Black employee of a Piggly Wiggly grocery store.

In the recording, Wright, upset that the woman he was was with had spoken to the Black male employee, calls her a "[n-word] lover" and refers to the man as a "f*cking Black-ass [n-word]."

He was Sherriff in a county which is 25% black, twice the national average, do you think he was likely to be have treated all black people he engaged with in a fair manner given his engrained beliefs? How do you think that deputies out of his office would have been encouraged to behave towards some members of the community?

But note, it took a recording from his private life to ultimately result in his removal (resigning, not firing) from his role after he insisted he wasn't a racist.

If Todd Wright had come in to the news for being excessively forceful in a traffic stop, you guys would likely argue there was no evidence of him being racist, and it was just people looking to inject racism in to a case where there was none. So how should society deal with cases of racists holding positions of authority within police bodies? Ignore it, until there is clear and unambiguous evidence that it exists? Or be forceful in ensuring that it will be sought out and removed?

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't remember you at all.

I didn't suggest people were being trained to be racist, I gave a hypothetical, I literally said that in my post.

Are you going to answer the question?

I know you don't remember me, that's the point. You jump to conclusions about people immediately if they don't agree with you.

Usually hypotheticals in these discussions need to be realistic. Yours isn't.

Hypothetically you could have a cop who constantly stops mainly black people simply to hassle them and piss them off because he's a racist. Hypothetically this cop could also be black, hypothetically he could even be from Mars. Hypothetically.

Hhhhh wrote: »

What makes you say the above is my only metric? The last time I interacted with you you called me a conservative, you seem to jump to conclusions aft too quick.

I do believe it can happen, but you were suggesting that police were being trained to be racist. That's a big leap to make with not even a hint of evidence.

I don't remember you at all.

I didn't suggest people were being trained to be racist, I gave a hypothetical, I literally said that in my post.

Are you going to answer the question?

Tell me how wrote: »

Every hypothetical is a strange one when your only metric for racial tendencies are cast iron proof through verbal expression or the use of symbols.

Why don't you come up with a hypothetical in which racist police (and we know there are at least some) behave in a racist manner without the use of words or symbols just so we can see if you are willing to believe it can happen.

What makes you say the above is my only metric? The last time I interacted with you you called me a conservative, you seem to jump to conclusions aft too quick.

I do believe it can happen, but you were suggesting that police were being trained to be racist. That's a big leap to make with not even a hint of evidence.

Hhhhh wrote: »

Just because one feels they are treated differently and unfairly, doesn't mean they are. This is why above posters' points about the media making near every negative interaction between police, particularly when the policeman is white, and a black person onto a race issue is so dangerous.

Your hypothetical is quite a strange one. Is there any evidence that rookie police were trained to deal with black people specifically in a different manner than anyone else in the last 10 years?

Every hypothetical is a strange one when your only metric for racial tendencies are cast iron proof through verbal expression or the use of symbols.

Why don't you come up with a hypothetical in which racist police (and we know there are at least some) behave in a racist manner without the use of words or symbols just so we can see if you are willing to believe it can happen.

punisher5112

Hhhhh wrote: »

hahaha that's hilarious. This progressive ****e is the gift that keeps on giving. Biden needs to rid his party of it quicker rather than later.

He can't now sure he had saint George family in for a few hours....

Where would you get it only in America

Darc19 wrote: »

Someone wasn't thinking

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spain-stamps-post-office-equality-b1856101.html

New Spanish postage stamps to mark anniversary of George Floyd.

The black stamp is 70c and the pale stamp is €1.60.

Seems it was intentional, but over thought and ended up accidentally seen as racist.

“The darker the stamp, the less value it will have,” the state-owned company, called Correos, said in a news release announcing the launch. “Therefore, when making a shipment, it will be necessary to use more black stamps than white ones. That way, each letter and each shipment will become a reflection of the inequality created by racism.”

hahaha that's hilarious. This progressive ****e is the gift that keeps on giving. Biden needs to rid his party of it quicker rather than later.