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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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marno21

Signage up on Horgan's Quay hoarding "302 modern riverfront apartments.. coming soon"

Interesting.

questionmark?

marno21 wrote: »

Signage up on Horgan's Quay hoarding "302 modern riverfront apartments.. coming soon"

Interesting.

That is interesting. Didn't think these stood a chance anytime soon.

opus

marno21 wrote: »

Signage up on Horgan's Quay hoarding "302 modern riverfront apartments.. coming soon"

Interesting.

Coincidentally I took this pic while out for a walk last night.

who_me

Yeah, there have been people working constantly on the Carriage Sheds, and the path and greeneries on the quay-side, and on the seats in the waterfront square... They seem to be doing everything BUT starting on the remaining 2 office buildings or the residential block.

I don't know if everyone is waiting on some Government law changes/tax-breaks to facilitate residential development, or just waiting generally to see what the economic landscape is post-Covid.

whoistalking

opus wrote: »

Coincidentally I took this pic while out for a walk last night.

Could someone tell me what the building to the left of the carriage shed is going to be? Is it a small office building or a multistory carpark? It is in all the pictures but never any reference to it. Thanks.

rounders

whoistalking wrote: »

Could someone tell me what the building to the left of the carriage shed is going to be? Is it a small office building or a multistory carpark? It is in all the pictures but never any reference to it. Thanks.

The triangle one?

Apogee

whoistalking wrote: »

Could someone tell me what the building to the left of the carriage shed is going to be? Is it a small office building or a multistory carpark? It is in all the pictures but never any reference to it. Thanks.

I think it's a reference to this:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/developmentconstruction/arid-40272149.html

Nope, it's a separate triangular piece of currently unused ground:

calnand

It's more apartments.

http://planning.corkcity.ie/idocsWebDpss/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=146699&format=jpeg

Pen Rua

Not sure where to post short of creating a new thread, but is there somewhere to find notices of road closures in Cork City? I know back in Galway, the City Council (generally) posts notices in the paper and web prior to major road closures.

There's a new road sign on North Mall advising that North Mall & Sundays Well Road will close for 12 weeks from 8 June. 12 weeks!

cantalach

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

With regards joggers, it's my understanding that their concerns relate to surface type. Some of them avoid running on concrete. I'm not one of them.

When I ran, avoiding the pronounced "dish" in footpaths at the entrance to homes was the main reason. Trip hazard, Achilles hazard, messes up stride, etc. Sorry!

(I know I'm replying to something from over a week ago...)

cantalach

Pen Rua wrote: »

Not sure where to post short of creating a new thread, but is there somewhere to find notices of road closures in Cork City? I know back in Galway, the City Council (generally) posts notices in the paper and web prior to major road closures.

There's a new road sign on North Mall advising that North Mall & Sundays Well Road will close for 12 weeks from 8 June. 12 weeks!

https://www.corkcity.ie/en/council-services/services/roads-and-traffic-management/road-closures-and-diversions/

Douglas Eegit

calnand wrote: »

It's more apartments.

http://planning.corkcity.ie/idocsWebDpss/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=146699&format=jpeg

Good find.

Planning ID 1737563
Pages 12 -> 14 of the 'Northern Quarter Drawings' file.

Pen Rua

cantalach wrote: »

https://www.corkcity.ie/en/council-services/services/roads-and-traffic-management/road-closures-and-diversions/

I had found that link, but it only gives info on road closures a week in advance, no more.

whoistalking

Yes it was the triangular one. Thanks for clarifying it is apartments!

Apogee

Tomorrow's Examiner:
attachment.php?attachmentid=554365&stc=1&d=1622240496

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2021/05/28/saturdays-papers-85/

questionmark?

Apogee wrote: »

Tomorrow's Examiner:

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2021/05/28/saturdays-papers-85/

That is very disappointing.

Also it's a joke that in a housing crisis that the current situation makes building apartments not worth it. As a country we really need to look into fixing this ****e! Apartments in the city centre near offices and transport make sense but reality means its a no go.

cgcsb

But taller buildings in Belfast can do so with half the rent

fonecrusher1

Why is the cost of building houses and apartments in this country so grossly over-inflated?

questionmark?

cgcsb wrote: »

But taller buildings in Belfast can do so with half the rent

Has there been recently built 20+ storey apartments built in Belfast? Would be an interesting comparison.

questionmark?

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Why is the cost of building houses and apartments in this country so grossly over-inflated?

Appears to be a combination of Finance costs, development levies, car parking provision, increase in construction costs and Labour, VAT, developer margins(need profit to grow business and help finance) etc...

fonecrusher1

questionmark? wrote: »

Has there been recently built 20+ storey apartments built in Belfast? Would be an interesting comparison.

Would it really though? Belfast City in fairness has a much bigger population than Cork City.

marno21

If an apartment development costs 115% of expected rental yield at the absolute top of the market, it's little wonder we have a housing crisis.

If you can't build a development like this without renting at nearly 3k per apartment, there's a serious issue here but the Government are keen to solve this issue through demand side measures.

VAT, development levies, building standard regulations, and the constraints of limited sources of finance are all killing these developments.

Land costs are often called on here but the cost of land here was ~30k per apartment. Not really worth talking about in this instance.

rounders

Full article

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/developmentconstruction/arid-40300916.html

namloc1980

That's disappointing, and brings into question how the rest of the docklands will ever happen if these apartments are considered non-viable. We need apartments in the city to bring vibrancy and densification. If apartments a stones throw from offices, key transport hubs and the city centre are a no go, then we're goosed.

snotboogie

It's better than the site sitting empty for the next 5 years while nothing happens. This highlights the issues in Cork in a major way. You could handwave about developer hoarding but it's clear now JCD want to build, they just couldn't make it work financially.

I've still not given up all hope on Horgans Quay and the Marina Quarter but most likely we'll probably be looking at the LDA being the only people capable of developing high density apartments in Cork City.

daithi7

marno21 wrote: »

If an apartment development costs 115% of expected rental yield at the absolute top of the market, it's little wonder we have a housing crisis.

If you can't build a development like this without renting at nearly 3k per apartment, there's a serious issue here but the Government are keen to solve this issue through demand side measures.

VAT, development levies, building standard regulations, and the constraints of limited sources of finance are all killing these developments.

Land costs are often called on here but the cost of land here was ~30k per apartment. Not really worth talking about in this instance.

Yeah, this unviable project really highlights a lot of the issues. But going to change in a hurry either is my guess.

Rhys Essien

It is very disappointing. The 25 storey would have fitted in great with the 34 storey across the river. Now I'm wondering will that even go ahead.

snotboogie

Rhys Essien wrote: »

It is very disappointing. The 25 storey would have fitted in great with the 34 storey across the river. Now I'm wondering will that even go ahead.

It was meant to be 90 metres. Office space takes a lot more room on each floor, the Exo in Dublin which is 17 stories is 75 metres. This will probably be something similar. I think the viability of the POC building is a totally seperate issue, if anything more offices this close would help.

Rhys Essien

Would have been 2/3 the height of the Port tower. Now it will be lucky to be 60m. They would have blended in great at 90m and 134m.

fonecrusher1

marno21 wrote: »

If an apartment development costs 115% of expected rental yield at the absolute top of the market, it's little wonder we have a housing crisis.

If you can't build a development like this without renting at nearly 3k per apartment, there's a serious issue here but the Government are keen to solve this issue through demand side measures.

VAT, development levies, building standard regulations, and the constraints of limited sources of finance are all killing these developments.

Land costs are often called on here but the cost of land here was ~30k per apartment. Not really worth talking about in this instance.

Its pure bloody greed is what it is. And a complete failure by our pretend government to actually set out regulatory boundaries to prevent it. I don't blame JCD for scrapping it. Why would they build something that was never even going to get anywhere near full occupancy.

I just don't understand why they are considering revising it back to 16 floors as an office only development. Why not just keep the 25 floor design but obviously redesign the interior for office space.