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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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slave1

Upcoming Nissan Airya can do 22kWh AC charging too, that car will bring Nissan back into the EV forefront

slave1

fafy wrote: »

Its ofd that one of the cheaper EV’s- The Zoe, has 22kw ac charging capability, and mid priced ones from E Niro, to ID3 & 4 do not.

Lots of Zoe EVs cannot rapid charge so hence 22kW AC

the_amazing_raisin

fafy wrote: »

Its ofd that one of the cheaper EV’s- The Zoe, has 22kw ac charging capability, and mid priced ones from E Niro, to ID3 & 4 do not.

True but for years the Zoe had no CCS fast charging, even as an option

22kW AC is great but even a Gen 1 Zoe will need an hour to charge. The ZE50 is great if you need to use public charging, only needs a little over 2 hours on an AC point instead of the usual 5 or 6 most others would need. If Renault had upped the DC charging speed to 100kW if would be one of the best out there

AndyBoBandy

fafy wrote: »

Its ofd that one of the cheaper EV’s- The Zoe, has 22kw ac charging capability, and mid priced ones from E Niro, to ID3 & 4 do not.

Yes, but thats not to say they can't use a 22kW charger..... they can but will only get what the car can take from it...

so in my Model 3, if I plug into an AC22, I'll get 11kW from it, which is 22% per hour (so 4 hours to get 88%)

fafy

I suppose it depends on your situation/lifestyle/driving routine.

For me, almost 100 % home charging, but the vast majority of any public chargers i would use, would be 22kw, as i would hardly ever be on a motorway. So i’d prefer to have 22kw ac capability in a BEV, as those are the chargers, i would use the most often, and it would be at least twice as fast charging.

Its true many 50+ fast dc chargers are popping up outside of motorway areas, but they have a long way to go, and its likely many rural places, which currently have 22kw ac charging points, won’t be uograded for years to come.

mfceiling

So the wife wants to move house shortly and we're going to look at 2 on Friday.

One has a big drive etc and the other has no front drive and only on street parking. I've tried explaining to her that in a few years time a driveway with a charger will be super valuable but no dice.
Her argument to me today was "sure you can charge at the garage once a week".

I'm at a loss trying to explain that on street parking is useless as an EV owner. Another argument is "sure the council will have loads of charging points in the streets in a few years" (she has no idea.... absolutely no idea).

Anybody here have on street parking? How is it possible to own an EV and rely on other chargers?

I'm blue in the face telling her that petrol and diesel are on the way out but she sees old and lovely house. I see disaster.

hold my beer

I've been charging once a week in the local garage, which has a 50Kw Electric Ireland charger. It's grand.

RandomViewer

Black_Knight wrote: »

I guess they make up for being small by having a frunk. Seeing plenty of them around these days too.

There's quite a few Northern or English reg bigger older ones around, always black for some reason

markpb

mfceiling wrote: »

So the wife wants to move house shortly and we're going to look at 2 on Friday

I moved out of my house temporarily. The apartment block has EV chargers but I’ve never got them to work so I’ve been relying on the public charging network for the last month. So far I’ve used:
- 22kW at Carrickmines while shopping. I knew I’d be there for a while and my car can take 16.5kW so a two hour charge was great. Most cars can’t charge at that rate, most at 7 or 11 so this wouldn’t be great.
- 22kW at a nearby Luas stop. I parked overnight and walked 5 minutes to the apartment and back the next morning. Having to pay for parking and charging was a bit of a pain.
- 50kW FCP I worked and watched Netflix while it was charging. Bit boring, I wouldn’t be in a rush to do it regularly.

The handiest would probably be a 50kW charger in a shopping centre car park so I can charge while doing my shopping but my local shops don’t have that and, when I have help from young ones, I couldn’t guarantee finishing my shopping in under 45 minutes.

None of them are as convenient as charging at home and none of them come close to being as cheap but there definitely manageable.

the_amazing_raisin

mfceiling wrote: »

So the wife wants to move house shortly and we're going to look at 2 on Friday.

One has a big drive etc and the other has no front drive and only on street parking. I've tried explaining to her that in a few years time a driveway with a charger will be super valuable but no dice.
Her argument to me today was "sure you can charge at the garage once a week".

I'm at a loss trying to explain that on street parking is useless as an EV owner. Another argument is "sure the council will have loads of charging points in the streets in a few years" (she has no idea.... absolutely no idea).

Anybody here have on street parking? How is it possible to own an EV and rely on other chargers?

I'm blue in the face telling her that petrol and diesel are on the way out but she sees old and lovely house. I see disaster.

I had on street parking in my previous house with a petrol car. It sucked then and I can't imagine it'd be any better with an EV

There's always people parking in your space and there's typically one space per house, so if you're a two car household then you're in trouble

Not to mention there were 2 abandoned cars parked there for about 8 months at least. Until one of the residents sold them to some gentlemen in a white van

liamog

mfceiling wrote: »

Anybody here have on street parking? How is it possible to own an EV and rely on other chargers?

I'm blue in the face telling her that petrol and diesel are on the way out but she sees old and lovely house. I see disaster.

We've got on-street parking in a private estate. We were able to install charging pillar alongside the parking space. It's the kind of estate where even though the spaces aren't allocated unofficial agreements mean you always have the same space. You will have much more problems trying to get a council to agree to an install. Management companies are pretty easy so long as you talk to the board members and get them on board.

JPA

mfceiling wrote: »

So the wife wants to move house shortly and we're going to look at 2 on Friday.

One has a big drive etc and the other has no front drive and only on street parking. I've tried explaining to her that in a few years time a driveway with a charger will be super valuable but no dice.
Her argument to me today was "sure you can charge at the garage once a week".

I'm at a loss trying to explain that on street parking is useless as an EV owner. Another argument is "sure the council will have loads of charging points in the streets in a few years" (she has no idea.... absolutely no idea).

Anybody here have on street parking? How is it possible to own an EV and rely on other chargers?

I'm blue in the face telling her that petrol and diesel are on the way out but she sees old and lovely house. I see disaster.

With small milage you'd be ok. But if you need a well charged car every morning it's as good as impossible to manage. Surely your opinion is worth something though?!

mfceiling

JPA wrote: »

With small milage you'd be ok. But if you need a well charged car every morning it's as good as impossible to manage. Surely your opinion is worth something though?!

Not when it comes to a woman who has her heart set on a "period" house in Dublin 6!!

She changes her car every 2 to 3 years and I've told her in 2024 it will have to be electric. That will be 2 electric cars parked on the street in Dublin. Only thing which might and I stress might work, is to get permission to convert the front garden into a driveway.

MJohnston

Pick your house based on your house! You'll - hopefully- spend a magnitude more time in it than you will in a car.

That all said, I reckon a bunch of us should suggest "communal on-street charging" as a DCC Beta project:
http://dccbeta.ie/suggest

slave1

With the mandatory move to EV in a few years there will have to be some leeway in street charging, don’t know how it will work in unreserved parking spaces though?

cannco253

https://electrek.co/2021/05/26/evgo-launches-reservations-charging-program-on-us-west-coast/

"You can use the EVgo Reserve Now feature on the app to book immediately, or EVgo Reserve by Date to book a specific date and time in the future. "

I noted the other day that Chargepoint also do this in the US. Do any European charging networks allow this?

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

With the mandatory move to EV in a few years there will have to be some leeway in street charging, don’t know how it will work in unreserved parking spaces though?

My guess is that the planning guidelines will need to be updated to treat on street chargers as allowed works under certain conditions

As for unassigned parking, it'll probably be up to the council or managment company to install a bank of AC chargers for residents

I'm sure they're all going to jump right on that :rolleyes:

slave1

They'll have to use all the street light poles

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

They'll have to use all the street light poles

Sure they don't even need to use the poles, there's most likely a duct going from the junction box along the street to the street lights

It'd be a fairly simple job to dig down, pop a charging pole on top of the duct and either tap into the existing supply or run a new cable back to the box

And since a lot of streetlights are getting changed over to LED, there's plenty of capacity getting freed up for chargers

pad199207

ELM327

So still nowhere near parity with ICE cars.

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

So still nowhere near parity with ICE cars.

True, but that's looking more down to cartel behaviour by the car manufacturers than any real cost of materials

The Peugeot e208 is a great example, the Active Petrol costs just under €20k whereas the Active Electric costs €27.5k after grants

So where's that €7k coming from? Is the e208 that much more expensive to produce? Does Peugoet save literally nothing from not producing a petrol engine for that car?

Of course not, they can probably produce the car for only a slight amount more than the ICE version and still make a profit

It's simply that the cheapest EVs in Ireland are around the €27-29k region and all the manufacturers are selling everything they produce. So there's no reason for them to undercut one another to boost sales

water-man

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

True, but that's looking more down to cartel behaviour by the car manufacturers than any real cost of materials

Not necessarily true. While I don't work in the car industry I do work in something similar and I know form experience our Electric / hybrid machines are a good bit more expensive to manufacture and obviously they want to make the same margin. And one of the main reason for cost increase is actually the skill set to build & test them is different and they just take longer to build.

WM

cannco253

https://instavolt.co.uk/instavolt-ceo-issues-statement-in-response-to-hmrc-vat-brief-25-may-2021/

UK - reduced vat rate of 5% does not now apply to public charging, 20% vat rate should be applied.
Public charging prices to increase immediately. I presume other providers will have to do the same after Instavolt increases its prices.

I see that here we pay 13.5% reduced rate, probably only a matter of time before this gets raised?
https://www.esb.ie/ecars/news/2020/2020/06/30/ev-drivers-to-benefit-from-reduced-vat-rate-on-esb-s-public-charging-network

innrain

cannco253 wrote: »

https://instavolt.co.uk/instavolt-ceo-issues-statement-in-response-to-hmrc-vat-brief-25-may-2021/

UK - reduced vat rate of 5% does not now apply to public charging, 20% vat rate should be applied.
Public charging prices to increase immediately. I presume other providers will have to do the same after Instavolt increases its prices.

I see that here we pay 13.5% reduced rate, probably only a matter of time before this gets raised?
https://www.esb.ie/ecars/news/2020/2020/06/30/ev-drivers-to-benefit-from-reduced-vat-rate-on-esb-s-public-charging-network

No here we were charged 23% for about 10 months until Revenue decided that this services qualifies for the reduced rate.

JohnC.

Google unveil a Street View equipped I-Pace in Dublin

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/5/25/22453703/jaguar-i-pace-google-street-view-dublin-air-quality

MJohnston

A random thought — imo “range anxiety” is not about the range that your EV will travel. It is much more about not having confidence in the estimated range your car gives you on a journey.

So, how accurate do you find the estimates that your EV gives you? Should this be a more important purchasing metric than range alone?

Irishjg

MJohnston wrote: »

A random thought — imo “range anxiety” is not about the range that your EV will travel. It is much more about not having confidence in the estimated range your car gives you on a journey.

So, how accurate do you find the estimates that your EV gives you? Should this be a more important purchasing metric than range alone?

What a great point. The fantasy figures quoted by the manufacturer in many cases bear no relation to reality. Also people need to understand that 50-10% real range is much less than 90-50%. kWh/100km is not linear and will increase at lower SOC. Then take external forces like weather and temperature into account and the figures will become even more foggy. The WLTP quoted figures cannot match real world driving.

markpb

MJohnston wrote: »

A random thought — imo “range anxiety” is not about the range that your EV will travel. It is much more about not having confidence in the estimated range your car gives you on a journey.

In my limited EV driving experience (thanks a bunch COVID!), I don’t worry about the cars estimated range much. I worry that the charge point I plan on using will be broken or in use. So now I need to act like a long distance pilot and plan on my primary and secondary charge points before I leave.

the_amazing_raisin

markpb wrote: »

In my limited EV driving experience (thanks a bunch COVID!), I don’t worry about the cars estimated range much. I worry that the charge point I plan on using will be broken or in use. So now I need to act like a long distance pilot and plan on my primary and secondary charge points before I leave.

Seconded