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Forced to work from home

Padre_Pio

Just got word today that work is downsizing their offices and the COVID work from home policy is going to be a near-permanent WHF policy.

Basically, the new office will only have hot desks, maybe half as many as there are staff. Employees have to book a desk in advance if they need to come into the office, but your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home.

There's uproar from certain people, but the response is basically put up and shut up.
Personally, there's no mention of home working in my contract. I was looking forward to getting back into the office and I barely have the space for a desk where I'm living at the moment, never mind a full setup.

Anyone have any experience of this? Places like Google and Facebook have said they're looking at similar policies. Any ideas how that went down with staff?

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Lewis_Benson

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Just got word today that work is downsizing their offices and the COVID work from home policy is going to be a near-permanent WHF policy.

Basically, the new office will only have hot desks, maybe half as many as there are staff. Employees have to book a desk in advance if they need to come into the office, but your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home.

There's uproar from certain people, but the response is basically put up and shut up.
Personally, there's no mention of home working in my contract. I was looking forward to getting back into the office and I barely have the space for a desk where I'm living at the moment, never mind a full setup.

Anyone have any experience of this? Places like Google and Facebook have said they're looking at similar policies. Any ideas how that went down with staff?

Sounds ideal to me.
I've been WFH since March 2020.
I have no desire to go back to the office full time, not a hope.
A hybrid working environment is the way forward.

listermint

Cyrus wrote: »

yes but its not mandatory which is what the poster appeared to suggest. i am in singapore 2-3 times a year and you rarely see anyone in a mask.

Must be walking around with your eyes closed on Singapore then .....

listermint

Calahonda52 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0525/1223841-irish-fiscal-advisory-council/

Sets the real tone here going forward, especially the piece below

However, it said the €5.4 billion increase in permanent, non-Covid, expenditure this year was "not prudent" and has used up most of the resources that might be generated by a recovering economy.

The correction needed, with debt at 250 bn, will make the austerity post 2008 look like unbridled largesse

Tbf that's a bit of a bollix line. The 5.4 billion spent would exactly be what prevented austerity. There was people put on payments which mean the economy is primed for a rebound. That effort is the prime it's not wasted money.

screamer

The lack of ability to adapt to a different office norm is astounding. Luckily I’ve worked for progressive companies most of my working life and working from home was normal. I actually said to a colleague one day everyone should hot desk, it mixes up the office and makes it more interesting. However, I know there are people who just cannot wrap their heads around it, so then I’d say if you want an assigned desk, you work from the office 5 days a week, and only remote workers have to hot desk. That seems like a decent compromise, as most of us know the benefits of working from home. Finally as for the company paying to use your facilities, well, no. If you don’t want to use your desk/ electricity at home then pay to commute to work and use theirs. Generally, the cost of commuting would cover the costs you’d have at home easily.

Flinty997

listermint wrote: »

Must be walking around with your eyes closed on Singapore then .....

You can just check videos on youtube and see what it was like in any Asian country before Covid in terms of Street life and walking around and crowds etc.

https://youtu.be/Z1nnEua2oPg

Flinty997

Calhoun wrote: »

One of the more interesting things to see will be if the greens use covid 19 and the emergent WFH strategy that is socially acceptable now to start tacking on more carbon charges for companies.

I know our base in the UK has been WFH for a very long time because the cost to have employee in the office.

Admittedly there will still need to be a balance because not everyone has the option to WFH but i think the combining factor of cost reduction over covid and the likelihood of carbon measures at some point will see it become one of the tools in the future to use.

The greens had two chances and blown both of them. They won't get a third in living memory I expect.

scheister

I have been doing a bit of WFH and WFO over the last year. To me my current set up does not allow to be as efficient when WFH.
I interviewed for a new job recently and they admitting them Hybrid is more likely the way forward. I have no issue with a 3/2 mix either way. I think flexibility is needed. For me September is my busiest period if we worked fully from Office for the month would be ideal.
I think WFH is grand once the right IT systems are in place, you are given expenses to cover extra costs and the right boundaries are set up in your house. To me flexibility but cop on is the way to go.

ineedeuro

Flinty997 wrote: »

The greens had two chances and blown both of them. They won't get a third in living memory I expect.

The Greens are just 1 year in a 5 year government plan. In that short space they have already got a huge project over the line in the midlands.

Covid will be over hopefully soon and we can make decision then but once you dont listen to the PR BS from some parties you actually see what is going on.

Cyrus

listermint wrote: »

Must be walking around with your eyes closed on Singapore then .....

not at all, like i said 3 times a year, rarely if ever see anyone with a mask on, obviously havent been there since last january im sure they will be more prevalent, and they still take your temp when getting off the plane.

but my point was, they arent mandatory, i cant see them being mandatory here after the end of the summer, into autumn.

listermint

Cyrus wrote: »

not at all, like i said 3 times a year, rarely if ever see anyone with a mask on, obviously havent been there since last january im sure they will be more prevalent, and they still take your temp when getting off the plane.

but my point was, they arent mandatory, i cant see them being mandatory here after the end of the summer, into autumn.

I've been there about 4 times over the last few years. Never failed to spot a mask . I'm not saying everyone wheres one but your implications that they are not a common sight is untrue. It's common practice and not a surprise to see a mask . And no that doesn't mean everyone wheres them.

ineedeuro

Cyrus wrote: »

not at all, like i said 3 times a year, rarely if ever see anyone with a mask on, obviously havent been there since last january im sure they will be more prevalent, and they still take your temp when getting off the plane.

but my point was, they arent mandatory, i cant see them being mandatory here after the end of the summer, into autumn.

I went to Singapore twice, both occasions seen plenty of people with masks. Travelled all over Asia and it is very common.
Even in US you have large communities from Asia and they will wear masks

Cyrus

Flinty997 wrote: »

You can just check videos on youtube and see what it was like in any Asian country before Covid in terms of Street life and walking around and crowds etc.

https://youtu.be/Z1nnEua2oPg

i skimmed through some of it but certainly tallies with my experience in singapore, was there one person in a mask there?

Cyrus

listermint wrote: »

I've been there about 4 times over the last few years. Never failed to spot a mask . I'm not saying everyone wheres one but your implications that they are not a common sight is untrue. It's common practice and not a surprise to see a mask . And no that doesn't mean everyone wheres them.

i go back to my original point, that they arent mandatory.

and i disagree they are a common sight, maybe 1-2% of people wear them, but they are a small minority.

ineedeuro

Cyrus wrote: »

i go back to my original point, that they arent mandatory.

and i disagree they are a common sight, maybe 1-2% of people wear them, but they are a small minority.

Prior to covid masks where not mandatory that didnt stop people wearing them and it was a lot more than 1-2%

listermint

Cyrus wrote: »

i go back to my original point, that they arent mandatory.

and i disagree they are a common sight, maybe 1-2% of people wear them, but they are a small minority.

That's ok. I think your wrong based on my own experience. It's not a small minority and I'm not debating if they were are or will be mandatory.

Cyrus

listermint wrote: »

That's ok. I think your wrong based on my own experience. It's not a small minority and I'm not debating if they were are or will be mandatory.

Thats ok, i think you are wrong based on my experience, it is a small minority. I wasn't debtating re whether they were mandatory or not, i just said they weren't.

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

i go back to my original point, that they arent mandatory.

and i disagree they are a common sight, maybe 1-2% of people wear them, but they are a small minority.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=992wYvePrSU

Video from last month. Masks everywhere when people are walking the streets, closer to 90% than 2%. Fewer wearing masks when sitting/dining, but that's to be expected.

KaneToad

Padre_Pio wrote: »

If you're going to work the expectation will be to be vaccinated, unless you have some mitigating circumstance.
Otherwise stay at home.

Those who want 100% WFH should just not get vaccinated, at that rate.

Also, is it clear whether we will need an annual Covid shot?

limnam

KaneToad wrote: »

Those who want 100% WFH should just not get vaccinated, at that rate.

Also, is it clear whether we will need an annual Covid shot?

why would people WFH all the time not need a vaccine ?

Can they not leave their house after work like everyone else?

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=992wYvePrSU

Video from last month. Masks everywhere when people are walking the streets, closer to 90% than 2%. Fewer wearing masks when sitting/dining, but that's to be expected.

thanks for that, but thats not what i was talking about,

i said masks didnt persist in asia (speficically singapore in my experience) post sars (which was what 10-15 years ago), certainly not in any mandatory capacity, and rarely worn by people out and about.

im sure its different right now when mandatory mask wearing indoors is enforced and maybe its outdoors over there aswell at the moment, as i said i havent been there since jan last year.

the video the other poster linked was representative of singapore pre covid, i.e. no one was wearing a mask.

floorpie

Cyrus wrote: »

yes but its not mandatory which is what the poster appeared to suggest. i am in singapore 2-3 times a year and you rarely see anyone in a mask.

I mirror what you're saying. Japan has a similar reputation for mask wearing but I've worked through Japan for extended periods and saw few masks in cities. Different surveys I see pre-COVID-19 show 10-30% wore them when not sick, mostly for fashion reasons or for pollen season. So, not as widespread as the rep and far from mandatory.

Obviously I don't know about since the pandemic.

KaneToad

limnam wrote: »

why would people WFH all the time not need a vaccine ?

Can they not leave their house after work like everyone else?

My point (although cumbersome) was that those who want 100% WFH could be incentivised to not get vaccine. If the policy, suggested by a poster, was that if you are not vaccinated then you should stay WFH.

Cyrus

floorpie wrote: »

I mirror what you're saying. Japan has a similar reputation for mask wearing but I've worked through Japan for extended periods and saw few masks in cities. Different surveys I see pre-COVID-19 show 10-30% wore them when not sick, mostly for fashion reasons or for pollen season. So, not as widespread as the rep and far from mandatory.

Obviously I don't know about since the pandemic.

yes and rightly or wrongly i would have assumed levels of mask wearing in japan would be higher than in other parts of asia but that could just be a bias that i picked up.

i think there is an element in more built up cities to wear them to protect from vehicle pollution as well.

average_runner

KaneToad wrote: »

My point (although cumbersome) was that those who want 100% WFH could be incentivised to not get vaccine. If the policy, suggested by a poster, was that if you are not vaccinated then you should stay WFH.

But you do other things outside work where the vaccine would be handy to have

floorpie

Cyrus wrote: »

yes and rightly or wrongly i would have assumed levels of mask wearing in japan would be higher than in other parts of asia but that could just be a bias that i picked up.

Funny, I would've assumed the same about Singapore :P

i think there is an element in more built up cities to wear them to protect from vehicle pollution as well.

It isn't a part of the office "uniform" in cities so essentially nobody wears them. Anyone can go to Google Images and type "salarymen Japan" or "Tokyo packed train", look at results pre-Covid, and see hundreds of people crammed into small spaces with zero masks.

The norm in Japan for the non believers in the thread:

https://img.kyodonews.net/english/public/images/posts/89486604bea564646800b306b36759ef/photo_l.jpg

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9f83fbdd8eee1d5f222e7edf31160877.webp

average_runner

Stark wrote: »

Before covid there were laws that meant the employer had to ensure an employee had an ergonomic workspace at home before they were allowed WFH on a regular basis. Obviously all that got waived with pandemic emergency but I imagine that duty of care will return once the pandemic is over.

I imagine for young employees living in shared rented accommodation, their at-home workspaces are far from meeting the ergonomic requirements.

I imagine people will largely fall into two camps. Older workers with families living in the commuter belt who will probably appreciate the increased flexibility of WFH when it comes to school/creche runs, not having to commute etc. And the younger workers living in cramped accommodation closer to the city who will want to get out of the house and into an environment that's setup for working and opportunities to socialise.

It is still your company responsibility to ensure you have the correct desk, seat etc at home. They should pay for it and are also liable if they do not offer it to you and you get a back injury from a bad seat etc.

Our place kitted out houses for the staff

Executioner511

Company where I work brought a lot of the staff back to the office 3 weeks ago one guy got covid and they had to shut the office for a week and tell everyone to work from home again for the foreseeable future, that is how it's gonna be for a long time as the risks are still too high to have a lot of staff in one place and companies don't want to be responsible for an outbreak as it reflects bad on them and it effects output.

Mango Joe

This thread is a very interesting example of people deciding on what suits them best & then throwing our any random nonsense at all to support and reinforce that view - no matter how ridiculous it may be.

I love going to work because I have no friends, family or people who will listen to me endlessly ranting unless they're paid to sit essentially in captivity within earshot of my constant drivel.

Its so unfair - I'd like to know when my Employer is going to come into my home and compensate me for the extra wear and tear on my toilet seat and toaster because I'm being forced to be in my own house/rented accommodation.

I'm sure there's loads of business owners or and hiring Managers out there just crying out for staff who go into work mainly for the chats or lack logic, perspective and basic common sense - Why not work for them instead and it's going to be a win, win situation all 'round????

missmelo

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Just got word today that work is downsizing their offices and the COVID work from home policy is going to be a near-permanent WHF policy.

Basically, the new office will only have hot desks, maybe half as many as there are staff. Employees have to book a desk in advance if they need to come into the office, but your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home.

There's uproar from certain people, but the response is basically put up and shut up.
Personally, there's no mention of home working in my contract. I was looking forward to getting back into the office and I barely have the space for a desk where I'm living at the moment, never mind a full setup.

Anyone have any experience of this? Places like Google and Facebook have said they're looking at similar policies. Any ideas how that went down with staff?

Not to scare you even more or anything but I heard, simply put if you can work from home why would they pay you a proper wage when they can outsource your work to India. So many are terrified of this happening.

floorpie

Mango Joe wrote: »

This thread is a very interesting example of people deciding on what suits them best & then throwing our any random nonsense at all to support and reinforce that view - no matter how ridiculous it may be.

Nobody's saying any of those things, please read the thread properly