downcow wrote: » Can you either link where I said this or withdraw the accusation
BonnieSituation wrote: » Wait? Are you, a Unionist, trying to hold another person to a standard to which you don't subscribe? Ha ha ha. Classic Unionist.
Hamsterchops wrote: » Classic Unionist Sounds like you don't like them Unionists, yet presumably you want to Unite with to form A United Ireland, right, yes/No? The GFA says that you may indeed have Northern Ireland, but only if majority of people living there in NI wish to leave the UK and join with us, but if you're attitude is anything to go by I'm not so sure it's ever going to happen.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Nobody will be asked to 'pay' for it. There will be costs - the 'costs' of running a country, any country. Borne by everyone living here. We pay our taxes because we want a certain type of society. As I keep saying, if the costs are couched in investment terms (which they will be) then I am confident that 67% and more will decide favourably.
StupidLikeAFox wrote: » The Europeans might call this leprechaun economics 2.0 You have looked at a poll, extracted the one answer that supports your viewpoint and disregard any answers (from the same poll) that don't. This figure of 67% has a huge caveat and you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise
1. The Leading Question Leading questions are those that use biased language. This language influences the survey taker’s selection. The problem with a leading question is that it can seem innocuous, but actually be fishing for a certain answer.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » I am not sure this is the relevant place to put it. (Mods can advise me if it is not) But this saddened me a bit.https://www.gaa.ie/news/spectators-to-return-in-six-counties-this-weekend/ Not the fact that fans are back at GAA games that is good thing. A great thing in fact. But the fact that the GAA main website blatantly flaunted the 'Six Counties' terminology a supposed apolitical organisation. I realise RnaG do it as well as it jars there too. Really stands out. Isn't it about time that there was more grown up/progressive attitude and the proper name was used the 'state of NI' or something similar. In my view it does not bode well for a UI if there STILL is playing with words in a Modern 21st Ireland. Does it send out the proper progressive message to those in NI who the ROI wishes to claim? I understand all the partionist arguments etc from certain cohort. But isn't the very fact that the GAA are accepting different rules in one jurisdiction while accepting other rules in another jurisdiction re-covid19 partitionist in itself? It is almost as if the 'six counties' terminology is a form delusion. Does it really send out the right message/optics towards the goal of a UI? Is it just me or is this article a summation of the ultimate hypocrisy in relation to those who desire to see a UI.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Poll data is there to interpret and analyse. Poll questions are also asked to elicit negative answers, oldest one in the pollsters book that.
StupidLikeAFox wrote: » 54pc said they would be unwilling to pay more tax to fund a United Ireland. Just 22pc said they would pay more while 24pc didn’t know. Its a straightforward enough question
FrancieBrady wrote: » So is 'do you want a UI?'. 'Do you want a border poll?
Shebean wrote: » Don't see an issue. Often hear 'six counties', also they state 'Ulster GAA'. Do you really think there's offence there?
gormdubhgorm wrote: » I think there is. It is similar to those saying the tricolour is Green, White and Gold. A deliberate tactic in order so they don't say Orange. A sort of colluded delusion between a cohort.
StupidLikeAFox wrote: » Yeah I agree with you. 67% like the idea of a UI. Only 22% are willing to pay extra taxes for that. You can't keep championing the 67% figure without acknowledging it comes with a caveat - it is only valid if there would be no tax increase
FrancieBrady wrote: » No...like most people - they don't want to pay tax. That is why it's a leading question. Ask anybody 'do you want to pay more tax for a better health service' you'll get the same answer. Will they pay more tax if they have to, to get what they want? We have been since the foundation of the state. It was a leading question designed to temper the 67% figure IMO
StupidLikeAFox wrote: » Sure, so to my earlier point you are cherry picking the answers that suit your argument. You can disregard peoples opinions on the cost of a united ireland, that doesn't make them go away.
Shebean wrote: » I can't see N.I. ever being self sufficient. They are an after thought answerable to Westminister. There will never be a time were the north is doing so well, people interested in such things, will want to unite. And if doing so well, why would their counterparts in the north concerned about such things want to rock the boat? N.I. will flourish under a united Ireland, as will Ireland.The rush is every day that passes is more shame on us leaving our fellow Irish people/families is such a situation.[/QUOTE] Can you explain what the bold bit means - about leaving our fellow Irish people/families means? There are plenty of emigrated Irish living good lives in GB with no inclination to move back, are we leaving them behind? You might have had a point back in the 1960s but that's not the case these days. Political power is being shared, job/housing discrimination is gone, Catholics have equal opportunities. It's still early days in the post-Brexit world. Suggesting that NI won't benefit from having dual UK/EU market access is very foolish. There's no reason not to believe that they actually will have the best outcome from Brexit and then the question is, why would they want to unite and lose that? Instead of leaving out fellow Irish behind, you're hiding the reality which is swapping the NHS for the HSE, higher taxes for those who work, a housing crisis for those who don't, fewer opportunities from reduced UK market access, more expensive VRT'd cars and consumable goods. What are they going to get in return? The ability to play 32 county GAA? Enforced Gaeilge in schools? The right to be an Irish citizen and hold an Irish passport? The right to hang the tricolour outside their house? The right to drive across the border at Lifford/Strabane without being stopped? How is anyone being left behind in the North? What is the actual advantage to unification over what they have currently and will have while they benefit from the dual EU / UK market access?
StupidLikeAFox wrote: » I think you are over thinking it. Calling it the "six counties" is as neutral and apoliticalas you get - not sure what phrase you would use in its place?
downcow wrote: » Yip their certainly is offence caused by the six counties. But sure let them stay their as the world moves on. The british lions even changed their name to accommodate the Irish players
jh79 wrote: » Logic is terrible. It was the same people for God sake. 67% respnded they want a UI and then that same cohort responded they wouldn't pay extra in taxes for what they already said they want. Jaysus Francie are you seriously saying they had already forgotten want they want in the few minutes it took to be given the follow up question! It's not a leading question, tax will need to increase significantly.
FrancieBrady wrote: » You don't even know what the question was. Exactly why it was asked by the Pymdependent and the Unionist Belfast Telegraph. Are you so naïve that you cannot see it? The question was not 'Would you pay?' and the answer therefore wasn't 'We would NOT pay?' The question was 'I would be in favour of paying higher taxes to fund the costs of a united Ireland?' The answer to that in general from most people would be: 'No I am not in favour of paying higher taxes'. And the Pymdependent and BT knew that would be the answer and als probably knew that people like yourself would extrapolate all sorts from it.
jimmycrackcorm wrote: » Shebean wrote: » I can't see N.I. ever being self sufficient. They are an after thought answerable to Westminister. There will never be a time were the north is doing so well, people interested in such things, will want to unite. And if doing so well, why would their counterparts in the north concerned about such things want to rock the boat? N.I. will flourish under a united Ireland, as will Ireland.The rush is every day that passes is more shame on us leaving our fellow Irish people/families is such a situation.[/QUOTE] Can you explain what the bold bit means - about leaving our fellow Irish people/families means? There are plenty of emigrated Irish living good lives in GB with no inclination to move back, are we leaving them behind? You might have had a point back in the 1960s but that's not the case these days. Political power is being shared, job/housing discrimination is gone, Catholics have equal opportunities. It's still early days in the post-Brexit world. Suggesting that NI won't benefit from having dual UK/EU market access is very foolish. There's no reason not to believe that they actually will have the best outcome from Brexit and then the question is, why would they want to unite and lose that? Instead of leaving out fellow Irish behind, you're hiding the reality which is swapping the NHS for the HSE, higher taxes for those who work, a housing crisis for those who don't, fewer opportunities from reduced UK market access, more expensive VRT'd cars and consumable goods. What are they going to get in return? The ability to play 32 county GAA? Enforced Gaeilge in schools? The right to be an Irish citizen and hold an Irish passport? The right to hang the tricolour outside their house? The right to drive across the border at Lifford/Strabane without being stopped? How is anyone being left behind in the North? What is the actual advantage to unification over what they have currently and will have while they benefit from the dual EU / UK market access? They obviously have no knowledge of the North with a post like that and are living in the past. As a person that was born there and moved south during the troubles, I can say we didn't emigrate, it was like moving from limerick to Dublin.
jh79 wrote: » What does "Pymdependent" mean? Thought it was a typo when I seen it yesterday.
FrancieBrady wrote: » It's referencing the Indo's legendary anti-UI, partitionist stance.
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