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Forced to work from home

Padre_Pio

Just got word today that work is downsizing their offices and the COVID work from home policy is going to be a near-permanent WHF policy.

Basically, the new office will only have hot desks, maybe half as many as there are staff. Employees have to book a desk in advance if they need to come into the office, but your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home.

There's uproar from certain people, but the response is basically put up and shut up.
Personally, there's no mention of home working in my contract. I was looking forward to getting back into the office and I barely have the space for a desk where I'm living at the moment, never mind a full setup.

Anyone have any experience of this? Places like Google and Facebook have said they're looking at similar policies. Any ideas how that went down with staff?

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jakiah

Calahonda52 wrote: »

As an employer, WFH and flexible working are two very different conversations.
Flexible working generally includes a set of core hours.
.
Your model suggests you decide when you work and where, which is not the norm.

The customer requirement decides when and where I work. Outside that I have flexibilty. On-site meetings would almost always be scheduled for core-hours, though this is not defined anywhere, its just common sense. Nobody would schedule a 9am meeting, it would be considered rude. Even on a 9am Zoom call the host will apologise for the early meeting.

Frankly I thought this was the norm these days, maybe its more specific to my level/industry than I thought. It makes the idea of lads working miles from their offices with horrific commutes even more mind-boggling.

Cyrus

listermint wrote: »

Mask wearing has always existed in Asia. Anywhere I've been. It was even here in Ireland from Asian nationals.

yes but its not mandatory which is what the poster appeared to suggest. i am in singapore 2-3 times a year and you rarely see anyone in a mask.

jakiah

ineedeuro wrote: »

In my work people have meetings all over Ireland. So living in a particular city centre is fairly pointless. If you only have customers based in one city then maybe an advantage to living beside them. I don't see it myself to be honest.

Most of our customers & partners would be Dublin-based, though I would take the odd trip to Cork or Belfast. I dont see how not all of them being in the one city is a good argument for living near none of them. Ive some colleagues living out west, they have a 4-5 hour round trip for some meetings. Surely you'd want to minimise that sort of thing.

Calahonda52

jakiah wrote: »

If I had that level of certainty that my calendar wouldnt change I'd be living in the south of France on the QT sure. But thats not how it works. Flexible working means flexible both ways - I dont have to deal with things like traffic, I dont usually have to be in a particular place, I can take time off whenever and the business can rely on me if they need me at relatively short notice.

As an employer, WFH and flexible working are two very different conversations.
Flexible working generally includes a set of core hours.
.
Your model suggests you decide when you work and where, which is not the norm.

Flexible working, certainly in the PS, seems to be somewhat abused based on my experience.
Example, by working "extra hours" which meant coming in early when there were no clients to look after and go home late, this couple accrued 5 weeks flexitime which they took off in one lump, along with 4 weeks annual leave, so they took 9 week holidays in the summer, on the continent in a camper van.

Last summer was a bit different!

This is an abject failure of line management afraid of Forsa

listermint

Cyrus wrote: »

disagree

mask wearing didnt persist in asia post sars i dont see why it will persist here.

Mask wearing has always existed in Asia. Anywhere I've been. It was even here in Ireland from Asian nationals.

ineedeuro

jakiah wrote: »

If I had that level of certainty that my calendar wouldnt change I'd be living in the south of France on the QT sure. But thats not how it works. Flexible working means flexible both ways - I dont have to deal with things like traffic, I dont usually have to be in a particular place, I can take time off whenever and the business can rely on me if they need me at relatively short notice.

In my work people have meetings all over Ireland. So living in a particular city centre is fairly pointless. If you only have customers based in one city then maybe an advantage to living beside them. I don't see it myself to be honest.

jakiah

ineedeuro wrote: »

If you can manage your calendar correctly it shouldn't matter if you live in the middle of no where. Arranging 1-2 days a week to commute into a city and spend the day meeting customers will have the exact same impression as walking down the road.

If I had that level of certainty that my calendar wouldnt change I'd be living in the south of France on the QT sure. But thats not how it works. Flexible working means flexible both ways - I dont have to deal with things like traffic, I dont usually have to be in a particular place, I can take time off whenever and the business can rely on me if they need me at relatively short notice.

str8y

ineedeuro wrote: »

One of the huge advantage of WFH is people don't need to live beside the office. Instead of spending 500k for a tiny house they can move outside major cities. This will not only help with pollution in major cities but also regeneration of smaller towns.

If you are sharing in a 4 bed house paying mental rent, you could probably rent a 4 bed house for the same price an hour outside Dublin. If you are not working everyday in the city why do you need to be based in it? it's not like you can go to the pub :-)

Just a quick crude example:

Double room in IFSC: 1,225 pm
https://www.rent.ie/rooms-to-rent/Spencer-Dock-Apartments-IFSC-Dublin-1/4767109/
Going West... 3 Bed in Mullingar 1,300 pm
https://www.rent.ie/houses-to-let/12-Atilderd-Na-Dara-Royal-Canal-Mullingar-Co-Westmeath/4741923/
Going North...3 bed Dundalk 1,250pm
https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/house-27-college-heights-dundalk-dundalk-co-louth/3225226

Or if you wanna push the boat out for a year:
Going South...6 Bed, Gorey: 1,400 pm
https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/house-ballywilliam-gorey-co-wexford/3236941

jakiah

floorpie wrote: »

So your coworkers rent in London to go into an office perhaps a day a week? Seems ridiculous.

There are millions of other reasons to live in London besides work.

A lot of this discussion is underpinned by the idea that people wouldnt want to live in a city and everyone is forced to. Its nonsense. We have lads on thread who were spending 3 hours a day commuting, no wonder they want to work 100% from home. What kind of life is that?

jakiah

floorpie wrote: »

What IS a new concept to everybody are workplaces saying your permanent desk must be in your home, we aren't going to pay for your heating or electricity even though you'll use them 100s% more, creating an ergonomic space is not our responsibility, we can't ever guarantee you a desk because we're far over capacity, and you must remain near because you'll need to come into office 2 days a week. This has not been standard anywhere. So remain being amazed if you like but this is a new practice.

This is pretty standard in tech in Dublin.

Cyrus

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Some form as Covid continue to evolve, with booster vaccines etc.
In addition the reducing in flu mortality during Covid will see masks etc being here to stay.

disagree

mask wearing didnt persist in asia post sars i dont see why it will persist here.

Calahonda52

Cyrus wrote: »

we are going to social distance forever?

Some form as Covid continue to evolve, with booster vaccines etc.
In addition the reducing in flu mortality during Covid will see masks etc being here to stay.

Christy42

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well if you got say 10 more years left in the work force that might be realistic, but beyond that I would not fancy your chances.

While I suspect it will be an oddity I doubt it will be unmanageable. Places will have desks and if someone has the clout to get one only for themselves they will be able to. I don't think they will have to chase people away from the office to get space

Or just 10 years to get a suitable wfh arrangement. Certainly not everywhere will go immediately to wfh and many places will have no reason to make it mandatory as it may be impractical to stop renting part of an office or to get a new smaller one.

Cyrus

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Realistically we're never going to be back 100% in the office due to some requirement for social distancing.

we are going to social distance forever?

Jim2007

Responder XY wrote: »

I suspect I won't be, it's a sellers market right now when it comes to employment. If my current employer doesn't allow me to work from an office, I'll simply find one that does!

Well if you got say 10 more years left in the work force that might be realistic, but beyond that I would not fancy your chances.

Jim2007

Sono wrote: »

Make no mistake about it companies are saving a fortune on their staff working from home.

I think they will save in the future, but many will still have to invest heavily to get from the temporary solution they have today to a permanent remote environment, cancel lease agreements etc...

[Deleted User]

Responder XY wrote: »

I suspect I won't be, it's a sellers market right now when it comes to employment. If my current employer doesn't allow me to work from an office, I'll simply find one that does!

To be fair, that's a short sighted view.

Responder XY

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect you may be left behind, looking for something that most employers won't want to accommodate.

I suspect I won't be, it's a sellers market right now when it comes to employment. If my current employer doesn't allow me to work from an office, I'll simply find one that does!

[Deleted User]

Realistically we're never going to be back 100% in the office due to some requirement for social distancing.

Jim2007

jakiah wrote: »

Its not an employers obligation to cater to people who want to live miles away from their office and customer base.

If you are having difficulty in recruiting staff or having to match other employers offers it is.

And since customers also work from home they may not appreciate having to go into the office to meet you.

[Deleted User]

Responder XY wrote: »

I don't think many expect 100% WFH (although some clearly want it!)

I think many people's issue (certainly my issue) is that there might be a requirement to WFH for at least a few days a week after the pandemic. I accept it now because there is a pandemic, but that won't continue and once it does I want to work 100% of my time in an office.

My kitchen table is for eating dinner from, not for working. I don't have anywhere else to work from in my house. I expect my employer to provide me a place to work from that isn't home.

I suspect you may be left behind, looking for something that most employers won't want to accommodate.

[Deleted User]

Saved a fortune working from home, between lunches and fuel.

Plus spent tons of quality family time with the kids. Tbh, this has been brilliant. Being around watching your small kids grow up is priceless. You'll never get that time again. Rather than 10 mins in the morning, and maybe half an hour in the evening if lucky, it's many hours of quality time. Kids have benefited hugely too.

Far more energy.
Excercising way more.
Far more productive at work.

Could go on and on.

WFH is without question being the biggest positive outcome of Covid imo.

Doubt I'll ever do a 9-5 Mon-Fri again. A day or two a fortnight. Even less would be better.

[Deleted User]

I can fully understand that working from home isn't suitable for everybody. But lets get real here, daily life was miserable for so many of us before Covid.

I personally spent 3 hours on the road every day. The cost of diesel, tolls and car servicing was insane. And that's without even mentioning the frustration of traffic on the N3 and then the car park that is the M50.

And all to do a job that I can easily do at home. I don't love working from home. But its a million times better than the above.

Christy42

Responder XY wrote: »

I don't think many expect 100% WFH (although some clearly want it!)

I think many people's issue (certainly my issue) is that there might be a requirement to WFH for at least a few days a week after the pandemic. I accept it now because there is a pandemic, but that won't continue and once it does I want to work 100% of my time in an office.

My kitchen table is for eating dinner from, not for working. I don't have anywhere else to work from in my house. I expect my employer to provide me a place to work from that isn't home.

Indeed. That will be an issue for many who do not have suitable working arrangements. I personally have no issue working from my kitchen table but I can see why others would.

I suspect many companies will drag employees who don't want to be in and force others to stay out who want to go back in. Hopefully the flexible employers will win out in the end and we can have the best choice available. If you can it might be best to find an employer willing to allow that.
It depends on if your employer still has the office space and if the people who want to be in balance out those who don't.

Sono

Make no mistake about it companies are saving a fortune on their staff working from home.

I am at home myself like many others in this thread. I have young children and I enjoy it for the most part.

I will never ever miss the commute that’s for sure, I do miss the social interaction with colleagues for but not enough to go back 4 days a week in the office which I was doing pre Covid.

It looks like we will be 3/4 days at home going forward which I am happy enough with, the time at home allows me to do errands I wouldn’t normally be able to get done were I in the office, I also get to spend more time with my kids which may not be everyone’s cup of tea but I enjoy it.

Our company has been very poor in rolling out equipment to staff, use of personal phone work is something I would rather not have too but what can ya do.

I am currently making an office out in my shed and it’s nearly finished and has cost me a few grand to get done, I did think my employer may contribute something to the works as I was doing it for work purposes but that never worked out.

All in all I am quite happy at home, great for family time and to be able to get some exercise in which I would not have been able to do in the office.

[Deleted User]

I'm going to conduct a poll. I'll keep count.

Who wants 100% work from home?

Hit "thanks" on my post for YES.

floorpie

Cyrus wrote: »

of course its your problem, your contract of employment will most likely forbid it for one.

My contract just says that my employer will designate my headquarters. I didn't agree to my gaff being HQ, so I assume this will all need to be agreed to contractually (?).

Responder XY

Christy42 wrote: »

honestly it seems like the only ones suggesting 100% wfh are those who are using it as a stick to beat wfh with. I may have missed a post and there will likely be a few exceptions with some people 100% WFH. Most seem to accept hybrid.

I don't think many expect 100% WFH (although some clearly want it!)

I think many people's issue (certainly my issue) is that there might be a requirement to WFH for at least a few days a week after the pandemic. I accept it now because there is a pandemic, but that won't continue and once it does I want to work 100% of my time in an office.

My kitchen table is for eating dinner from, not for working. I don't have anywhere else to work from in my house. I expect my employer to provide me a place to work from that isn't home.

floorpie

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s a new concept to some. But also standard practice for many. It’s been the setup for nearly a decade for me, across three companies (albeit two of them big UK banks in London)

So your coworkers rent in London to go into an office perhaps a day a week? Seems ridiculous.

[Deleted User]

floorpie wrote: »

The nature of my job means I may have to work anywhere in the world at the drop of a hat and I travel a lot, so it's not a new concept to me and probably not to anybody really. However my workplace facilitates this because, as I say, it's the nature of the job. I'm never expected in office and I just move to wherever suits me at a given time.

What IS a new concept to everybody are workplaces saying your permanent desk must be in your home, we aren't going to pay for your heating or electricity even though you'll use them 100s% more, creating an ergonomic space is not our responsibility, we can't ever guarantee you a desk because we're far over capacity, and you must remain near because you'll need to come into office 2 days a week. This has not been standard anywhere. So remain being amazed if you like but this is a new practice.

It’s a new concept to some. But also standard practice for many. It’s been the setup for nearly a decade for me, across three companies (albeit two of them big UK banks in London)