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Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Fratton Fred

To avoid derailing other SCD threads, I thought I'd add a Dun Laoghaire thread.

My main query, is does anyone know what is going on outside the train station? It looks like they are putting a crossing in twenty metres from the crossroads. Surely not?

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Mav11

p15574 wrote: »

Cyclists pay exactly the same as motorists for the roads and cycle lanes.

OK.

duploelabs

p15574 wrote: »

Cyclists pay exactly the same as motorists for the roads and cycle lanes.

Wait, cyclists are paying road tax now? When did that happen?

IngazZagni

duploelabs wrote: »

Wait, cyclists are paying road tax now? When did that happen?

Everyone pays road tax through general taxation. Car owners also pay motor tax. No matter what you think motor tax comes far shy of paying for the upkeep of our roads.

Believe it or not in many cases cyclists also have cars. Myself included.

duploelabs

IngazZagni wrote: »

Everyone pays road tax through general taxation. Car owners also pay motor tax. No matter what you think motor tax comes far shy of paying for the upkeep of our roads.

Believe it or not in many cases cyclists also have cars. Myself included.

Oh right, do cyclists pay vrt too? Are they taxed on the fuel they use?

But yeah, 'general taxation' could be argued against anyone who doesn't pay their fair means for using a public facility. I could argue that I don't have to pay library fines or television license because I've already paid for them through 'general taxation'

Homesick Alien

Larbre34 wrote: »

Disagree. He will overreach and turn the Community against him. Not what is needed.

You have to bring people along, not bash them over the head.

I won't be convinced that DL needs a new public plaza AND the adjoining section of Street closed off. Certainly not at the cost of public transport accessing the spots it is needed most.

Even if it's a success? That's pretty narrow minded. It's a trial - if it doesn't work so be it - but to say 'I don't think this will work so let's not even try it' is the usual regressive stance.

IngazZagni

duploelabs wrote: »

Oh right, do cyclists pay vrt too? Are they taxed on the fuel they use?

But yeah, 'general taxation' could be argued against anyone who doesn't pay their fair means for using a public facility. I could argue that I don't have to pay library fines or television license because I've already paid for them through 'general taxation'

You’re just being silly now. The tax on fuel is literally on the food and drink they have. What exactly do you want? That cyclists pay more taxes? What do you think that will do? It’ll just move more people back in cars creating even more gridlock. It’s actually a good thing that cycling is seen as a viable option now as it makes your car journey faster.

frash

Can we drop the car vs bike debate please - I think we're all sick of it at this stage.
All we need now is someone to bring up parking apps

ted1

duploelabs wrote: »

Wait, cyclists are paying road tax now? When did that happen?

Motor tax, there’s no road tax in Ireland.

Let’s get back to DL. When are the umbrellas and sears going back outside the pavilion ?

Tabnabs

Will the pedestrianised street be used by bicycles too?

Mav11

Tabnabs wrote: »

Will the pedestrianised street be used by bicycles too?

"Article 45 of the 1997 Regulations (as amended by the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) Regulations 1998), you must not cycle in a pedestrianised street or area during the period indicated by the sign"

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/cycling/cycling_offences.html#

[Deleted User]

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

Exactly.

You are the very person who went silent last year when the subject of cyclists paying tax similar to motor tax was discussed here.

Look at all the lovely new bicycle lanes, taking over half of the road, that you can now use free of charge and at an inconvenience of the motorist who is paying to use these roads.

Why should bicycle owners have free parking for their bicycles. Also using public and private fences, poles and other street furniture to secure their bicycles?

DunLaoghaire Rathdown had free parking on both Saturday and Sunday on many roads in the borough. This has now been reduced to free Sunday parking only. This is pure greed and money grabbing at best.

I am old enough to remember the days when I could park my car on Grafton street for free. Why should County Councils own parking spaces on public streets?

I'd be very happy to discuss a motor tax for cyclists, except that most bikes don't have motors. If you want to have a tax for all road users based on the wear and tear arising, a €10 tax per bicycle would equate to something like €1.4 million tax for an average family car (fourth power rule), so you might want to be careful what you wish for.

I've no difficulty paying for bike parking, proportional to the space used. Given that you can get about 10 bikes into one car parking space, you might find it it costs more to process the payments than it brings in in revenue, so it's not really a very sensible solution.

Why should County Councils own parking spaces? Well, someone has to own the street. The real question is why County Councils should subsidise the transport choices of largely better off people by providing free storage space for private property? Can I expect to store my hot tub out on the kerb and use it there, given that it catches the sun nicely in the evenings?

frash

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'd be very happy to discuss a motor tax for cyclists, except that most bikes don't have motors. If you want to have a tax for all road users based on the wear and tear arising, a €10 tax per bicycle would equate to something like €1.4 million tax for an average family car (fourth power rule), so you might want to be careful what you wish for.

I've no difficulty paying for bike parking, proportional to the space used. Given that you can get about 10 bikes into one car parking space, you might find it it costs more to process the payments than it brings in in revenue, so it's not really a very sensible solution.

Why should County Councils own parking spaces? Well, someone has to own the street. The real question is why County Councils should subsidise the transport choices of largely better off people by providing free storage space for private property? Can I expect to store my hot tub out on the kerb and use it there, given that it catches the sun nicely in the evenings?

Like a broken bloody record
You're ruining this thread - take it to the cycling forum

Living Off The Splash

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've no difficulty paying for bike parking, proportional to the space used. Given that you can get about 10 bikes into one car parking space, you might find it it costs more to process the payments than it brings in in revenue, so it's not really a very sensible solution.

But someone will have to provide a stand for the bicycle. That costs money. You are the very person who drones on about motorists expecting to have free storage space on the roads for their cars, but HEY! cyclists are different......in what way?

Also, the council will lose income from the car parking space by making it a bicycle space. What about that?

I wonder should smaller cars pay less for their parking space....based on your argument?

ted1

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

But someone will have to provide a stand for the bicycle. That costs money. You are the very person who drones on about motorists expecting to have free storage space on the roads for their cars, but HEY! cyclists are different......in what way?

Also, the council will lose income from the car parking space by making it a bicycle space. What about that?

I wonder should smaller cars pay less for their parking space....based on your argument?

Stands are being paid for by bike rental companies. There’s a levy for each bike to provide to DLRCoCo

Larbre34

With respect to everyone's point of view, the matter concerning Dun Laoghaire at the moment is specifically whether the benefits of closing off a section of the main street to cars, bicycles, commercial vehicles, and most importantly buses and taxis outweigh the consequences of doing that.

In my opinion, when you look at all the competing demands of reopening the economic heart of the town, such a proposal is a bad idea.

Mav11

Larbre34 wrote: »

With respect to everyone's point of view, the matter concerning Dun Laoghaire at the moment is specifically whether the benefits of closing off a section of the main street to cars, bicycles, commercial vehicles, and most importantly buses and taxis outweigh the consequences of doing that.

In my opinion, when you look at all the competing demands of reopening the economic heart of the town, such a proposal is a bad idea.

Lets suck it and see!

Larbre34

Mav11 wrote: »

Lets suck it and see!

I don't think thats a reasonable argument.

For how long? Until the damage is done? Until word has spread and folk are put off coming to the town due to consequent delays and disimproved public transport?

The submission I have put in is that the new Square will be enough to cater for outdoor gathering close to the food businesses on George's Street.

Those same businesses, as well as the people of the area are entitled to have a public transport service that goes to the heart of the town, to meet the needs of both.

I've said that restricting private cars and limiting delivery times once again is a fair compromise to improve the ambience of the street, but not to close it altogether.

Mav11

Larbre34 wrote: »

I don't think thats a reasonable argument.

For how long? Until the damage is done? Until word has spread and folk are put off coming to the town due to consequent delays and disimproved public transport?

I think that I mentioned in an earlier post, to the end of September. If it is not viable by then it should be reversed.

The problem is, DLRCC and our councilors if true to form, would never admit trying something and getting it wrong. Which is understandable, as they would be pilloried by the aforementioned naysayers, the FUD'ers (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt), those who do nothing but criticise and the "I told you so'ers".

My view, if you don't try these things you'll never know.

[Deleted User]

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

But someone will have to provide a stand for the bicycle. That costs money. You are the very person who drones on about motorists expecting to have free storage space on the roads for their cars, but HEY! cyclists are different......in what way?

Also, the council will lose income from the car parking space by making it a bicycle space. What about that?

I wonder should smaller cars pay less for their parking space....based on your argument?

Did you miss the bit where I said "I've no difficulty paying for bike parking, proportional to the space used"?

Certainly, large SUVs beloved of DL folks should be paying proportionally more for parking, a lot more for insurance given the dangers to other road users, and vastly more motor tax given the excessive levels of pollution and wear and tear arising.

[Deleted User]

frash wrote: »

Like a broken bloody record
You're ruining this thread - take it to the cycling forum

I'm not the one who keeps whinging about having to pay for parking on Saturdays.

Living Off The Splash

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Did you miss the bit where I said "I've no difficulty paying for bike parking, proportional to the space used"?

So you won't pay for parking if you cannot get "proportional to the space used"?

Why should you expect free parking storage for your bicycle and why should you dictate your terms on charges. The motorist has had no say in this.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

With respect to everyone's point of view, the matter concerning Dun Laoghaire at the moment is specifically whether the benefits of closing off a section of the main street to cars, bicycles, commercial vehicles, and most importantly buses and taxis outweigh the consequences of doing that.

In my opinion, when you look at all the competing demands of reopening the economic heart of the town, such a proposal is a bad idea.

Towns generally flourish when pedestrianised, as regards George’s street lower I’m on the fence as I haven’t seen how they are maintaining access via public transport for those with mobility issues. Then again I’d like to see how many people with mobility issues actually use public transport to access the hospital

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/16/i-got-it-wrong-since-the-changes-its-become-more-vibrant-life-in-an-ltn

Tabnabs

I feel sorry for the lad in the Gourmet Pantry who will lose his free parking loading bay area for his old SUV right outside his door.

scotchy

Tabnabs wrote: »

I feel sorry for the lad in the Gourmet Pantry who will lose his free parking loading bay area for his old SUV right outside his door.

I wondered who owned that:)

.

Cyrus

id rather pay for parking to be honest, more chance of getting a space, my suv is kinda big

and i love the parking tag app, very convenient

Mav11

Cyrus wrote: »

id rather pay for parking to be honest, more chance of getting a space, my suv is kinda big

and i love the parking tag app, very convenient

Generally accepted as the solution to all wrongs and the secret to ever lasting life, by those with opposing thumbs!:D

Homesick Alien

Mav11 wrote: »

I think that I mentioned in an earlier post, to the end of September. If it is not viable by then it should be reversed.

The problem is, DLRCC and our councilors if true to form, would never admit trying something and getting it wrong. Which is understandable, as they would be pilloried by the aforementioned naysayers, the FUD'ers (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt), those who do nothing but criticise and the "I told you so'ers".

My view, if you don't try these things you'll never know.

Don't forget the "Something needs to be done but not that or that or that" ers

frash

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm not the one who keeps whinging about having to pay for parking on Saturdays.

Nor am I

Homesick Alien

GT89 wrote: »

Also if they're trying to get outdoor dining what restaurants and cafes are on Georges Street Lwr. apart from a few coffee shops and the Miami Cafe.

Not sure what you mean by 'apart from a few coffee shops and the Miami Cafe'? Are they not worthy or does it need to be Michelin star fare?

On that stretch of street:
Darboven
Dall Italia
Natural Bakery co
Chocolate de Fred
The Lighthouse
Miami Cafe
Gourmet Cafe

Just off it:
Lá Dolce Italia
Strudel
Kyoto
Ritz Cafe
Bits n Pizzas
Zero Zero
Sunshine Cafe
SOUP

and I'm sure there's a few in forgetting

Mav11

Homesick Alien wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by 'apart from a few coffee shops and the Miami Cafe'? Are they not worthy or does it need to be Michelin star fare?

On that stretch of street:
Darboven
Dall Italia
Natural Bakery co
Chocolate de Fred
The Lighthouse
Miami Cafe
Gourmet Cafe

Just off it:
Lá Dolce Italia
Strudel
Kyoto
Ritz Cafe
Bits n Pizzas
Zero Zero
Sunshine Cafe
SOUP

and I'm sure there's a few in forgetting

and if it works it could attract more.