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Forced to work from home

Padre_Pio

Just got word today that work is downsizing their offices and the COVID work from home policy is going to be a near-permanent WHF policy.

Basically, the new office will only have hot desks, maybe half as many as there are staff. Employees have to book a desk in advance if they need to come into the office, but your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home.

There's uproar from certain people, but the response is basically put up and shut up.
Personally, there's no mention of home working in my contract. I was looking forward to getting back into the office and I barely have the space for a desk where I'm living at the moment, never mind a full setup.

Anyone have any experience of this? Places like Google and Facebook have said they're looking at similar policies. Any ideas how that went down with staff?

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Jim2007

newuser99999 wrote: »

I am talking about friends that I have spoken to and my own experience.

Well unless you are a very unusual kind of character, one can assume that most of your friends and acquaintances will be of a similar mind set to yourself.

KaneToad

floorpie wrote: »

I can see no way in which WFH is in any way conducive to a better social life overall, please explain how.

Obvious reasons: you and your peers/friends/family aren't in a common place every day (e.g. Dublin city centre); your only human contact for 40-50 hours a week is through Zoom; you aren't allowed leave your house for 40-50 hours a week etc. These are obvious antisocial attributes of WFH.

I imagine "building a social life outside the office" is perhaps insurmountably difficult if you WFH any distance from an urban centre.

I couldn't disagree more. You have more time for meaningful social interactions with people of your choosing. Sports clubs, neighbours, volunteer groups, music groups etc...

The people you work with are foisted upon you (and you on them!). There is nobody that I work with that I would ever socialise with or keep in touch with if I left. They are all (mostly) nice people but we have nothing in common.

Also, there is life outside of Dublin city!

newuser99999

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well unless you are a very unusual kind of character, one can assume that most of your friends and acquaintances will be of a similar mind set to yourself.

Nope. My friends aren’t guaranteed to have the same experience as I am just because we’re friends.

Dyr

floorpie wrote: »

I can see no way in which WFH is in any way conducive to a better social life overall, please explain how.

I'm not spending 8 hours a day in a building with the sort of people that I would normally cross a motorway to avoid, that's improved my social life.

Padre_Pio

KaneToad wrote: »

I couldn't disagree more. You have more time for meaningful social interactions with people of your choosing. Sports clubs, neighbours, volunteer groups, music groups etc...

The people you work with are foisted upon you (and you on them!). There is nobody that I work with that I would ever socialise with or keep in touch with if I left. They are all (mostly) nice people but we have nothing in common.

Also, there is life outside of Dublin city!

Take anyone moving to a new job (you'll probably have to move since full WFH is off the table, only a "hybrid" solution in many companies).

Your first friends are your colleagues, your after-work drinks, your company social outings etc.
The clubs and groups come later, but they're usually people you only see once a week or fortnight, if you have time for these, with family or other commitments.

Evd-Burner

I built on office out the back and the job sent a new desk, screens, dock, speakers etc. I have kids at home so a separate office was needed, I can't wait to get back in to the office!

I miss having the break away from the house and kids, right now I feel like I am always in the mindset of work and its like I can't switch off from it. I end up checking my mails every night before bed and checking in on things over the weekend. I never did any of this before when I primarily worked from the office, we always had the option to do 20% of our time at home but I only ever used that option once or twice a year at max.

I think I will still aim for at least 2 days a week at home in my personal office for focusing and to avoid the some commuting time.

KaneToad

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Take anyone moving to a new job (you'll probably have to move since full WFH is off the table, only a "hybrid" solution in many companies).

Your first friends are your colleagues, your after-work drinks, your company social outings etc.
The clubs and groups come later, but they're usually people you only see once a week or fortnight, if you have time for these, with family or other commitments.

Speak for yourself. I've moved jobs/locations several times. I never socialise with work colleagues. Seeing them 40 hrs a week is plenty.

I fully accept that this is not how you behave.

[Deleted User]

floorpie wrote: »

I can see no way in which WFH is in any way conducive to a better social life overall, please explain how.

Obvious reasons that it's not conducive: you and your peers/friends/family aren't in a common place every day (e.g. Dublin city centre); your only human contact for 40-50 hours a week is through Zoom; you aren't allowed leave your house for 40-50 hours a week etc. These are obvious antisocial attributes of WFH.

I imagine "building a social life outside the office" is perhaps insurmountably difficult if you WFH any distance from an urban centre.

You do realise the primary purpose of your job is to work, not to facilitate your building a social life?

Seriously concerning how many see their jobs first as places to socialise then as workplaces.

These are the people whose work performance I'd be keeping my eye on.

KaneToad

Evd-Burner wrote: »

I built on office out the back and the job sent a new desk, screens, dock, speakers etc. I have kids at home so a separate office was needed, I can't wait to get back in to the office!

I miss having the break away from the house and kids, right now I feel like I am always in the mindset of work and its like I can't switch off from it. I end up checking my mails every night before bed and checking in on things over the weekend. I never did any of this before when I primarily worked from the office, we always had the option to do 20% of our time at home but I only ever used that option once or twice a year at max.

I think I will still aim for at least 2 days a week at home in my personal office for focusing and to avoid the some commuting time.

I don't have this problem. I have contracted hours. That's all I work. No interest in doing more.

[Deleted User]

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah, I think at under a year its a bit early to be popping the champagne to be honest.

Good thing I'm not popping the champagne then. (You guys love your little assumptions, don't you?)

I'm merely happy with the progress, so far.

Thanks for your contribution.

[Deleted User]

KaneToad wrote: »

I don't have this problem. I have contracted hours. That's all I work. No interest in doing more.

Yep. I switch right off.

Padre_Pio

Deleted User wrote: »

You do realise the primary purpose of your job is to work, not to facilitate your building a social life?

Seriously concerning how many see their jobs first as places to socialise then as workplaces.

These are the people whose work performance I'd be keeping my eye on.

It's the people actively discouraging employees socialising that I'd keep an eye on. Maybe we work in very different industries.

Mongfinder General

Bambi wrote: »

I'm not spending 8 hours a day in a building with the sort of people that I would normally cross a motorway to avoid, that's improved my social life.

Good point. WFH does cut out a lot of the awkward interactions that happen in the work place day to day. One guy who is now the head of a department basically told me that he wanted to take me home and bum me on a night out with work. I don't miss that kind of interaction.

Padre_Pio

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Good point. WFH does cut out a lot of the awkward interactions that happen in the work place day to day. One guy who is now the head of a department basically told me that he wanted to take me home and bum me on a night out with work. I don't miss that kind of interaction.

Working from home is great.
I no longer get threats of rape.

You have bigger problems my friend.

[Deleted User]

Padre_Pio wrote: »

It's the people actively discouraging employees socialising

Could you point that person out? Perhaps a quote actively discouraging employees socialising?

[Deleted User]

Padre_Pio wrote: »

It's the people actively discouraging employees socialising that I'd keep an eye on. Maybe we work in very different industries.

I'm not actively discouraging it.

I'm pointing out that it should not be a primary focus and for some it appears to be at the very top of their priority list, over and above doing their actual job.

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

You do realise the primary purpose of your job is to work, not to facilitate your building a social life?

Seriously concerning how many see their jobs first as places to socialise then as workplaces.

These are the people whose work performance I'd be keeping my eye on.

seriously concerning?

Jim2007

swarlb wrote: »

Just curious about this. Being semi retired it doesn't really affect me, and having never worked in an 'office' environment, I'm just curious as to what kinds of jobs are these. Are they primarily IT.. or telephone call based.
Would it be a thing in the future that at the interview stage of one of these jobs the criteria for working at home would be laid out.
How exactly would it work, insofar as you'd need to be monitored by a 'boss' as to if you were actually working the allocated hours, breaks etc.
And excuse me for being ignorant... but what is a 'hot desk' ?

I ask mainly out of curiosity, but as my children have not yet entered the workplace... is this something they should consider for the future.

You can think of a hot desk like a desk in a library. When you go to a library to do some research, you pick up the material and a free desk to sit at, you take out your pens, paper etc and get to work. Offices work the same - you just grab a free desk, set yourself up and get to work. In the evening you clear away everything and next day you grab a free desk again.

The last team I managed was remote spread over the Switzerland, Ireland, Italy and Poland. Preconfigured laptops were shipped via DHL and people got a WFH allowance of about 2.5k pa to spend as they wished on their home office. People needed to be contactable, not necessarily working, between 10:00 - 12:00 and 14:00 - 16:00 each working day. Beyond delivering to agreed deadlines, there was no monitoring of working hours etc... it is just not realistic. I had a few juniors who needed more online coaching sessions, but most people take pride in their work and do the best they can in a responsible manner. I only had one bad apple in my time.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

for some it appears to be at the very top of their priority list, over and above doing their actual job.

There's a lot of chancers out there who aren't terribly good at their work and relied heavily on boot licking and back scratching to try and get ahead. They know more about GAA results or Love Island than their actual roles. WFH essentially blows all of that away and exposes some workers for what they are.

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a lot of chancers out there who aren't terribly good at their work and relied heavily on boot licking and back scratching to try and get ahead. They know more about GAA results or Love Island than their actual roles. WFH essentially blows all of that away and exposes some workers for what they are.

Having read all your contributions on this thread... I'd wonder about the quality of your "management". Post after post dripping with condescension and self righteousness.

You even remarked very positively about your own abilities as a manager. You know what they say about self praise.

Jim2007

newuser99999 wrote: »

Nope. My friends aren’t guaranteed to have the same experience as I am just because we’re friends.

I said mind set not experience.

Mongfinder General

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Working from home is great.
I no longer get threats of rape.

You have bigger problems my friend.

Quite a leap you've made there with that kind of accusation. To be fair to the guy he suggested it and wasn't assertive or aggressive in any way. It's just awkward when being in the same work space.

Jim2007

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a lot of chancers out there who aren't terribly good at their work and relied heavily on boot licking and back scratching to try and get ahead. They know more about GAA results or Love Island than their actual roles. WFH essentially blows all of that away and exposes some workers for what they are.

Well if you are managing so many chancers you know who to blame!

lawred2

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well if you are managing so many chancers you know who to blame!

maybe he enjoys the back scratches

[Deleted User]

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well if you are managing so many chancers you know who to blame!

I don't manage any of them. So all good.

[Deleted User]

lawred2 wrote: »

maybe he enjoys the back scratches

Again, assumptions. Oh well.

[Deleted User]

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Quite a leap you've made there with that kind of accusation. To be fair to the guy he suggested it and wasn't assertive or aggressive in any way. It's just awkward when being in the same work space.

As a rule, when they jump to making assumptions like that it's time to stop responding. They're getting too emotional.

[Deleted User]

Evd-Burner wrote: »

I miss having the break away from the house and kids, right now I feel like I am always in the mindset of work and its like I can't switch off from it. I end up checking my mails every night before bed and checking in on things over the weekend. I never did any of this before when I primarily worked from the office, we always had the option to do 20% of our time at home but I only ever used that option once or twice a year at max.

I did the same as you constantly for about the first six to eight months of lockdown and especially in December when work was crazy busy with end of year stuff. I was logging off at midnight, and back on at 7am while having my breakfast.

But no more. I was exhausted coming up to Christmas. Learning to switch off is something I realised you have to discipline yourself to do, so now I shut my work laptop down when my day is done, (latest 6pm) put it in a cabinet and it doesn't come out again until the next working day, and never at weekends.

My phone is personal and not connected to work in any way, so no emails, and its staying that way.

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

As a rule, when they jump to making assumptions like that it's time to stop responding. They're getting too emotional.

but your many baseless declarations are solid?

ByTheSea2019

Having previously done hot-desking, I actually really enjoyed it even though I didn't like the idea at the start. I got to know more people better as a result of sitting beside lots of them.

I think this new world we're entering will tilt the balance a bit more in favour of those who are technically competenat as opposed to good at office politics. We probably all work in different fields, but I've certainly seen extreme examples of people with no idea how to do their job getting ahead before people who are very technically competant through befriending the right people.