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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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AndyBoBandy

^^^ gonna be real fun this year…….

kennethsmyth

kanuseeme wrote: »

its his €1, I don't know, what to say, if it was only what most like to believe only a few cents, which is better to burn petrol or use the 330e emission-free?

Someone else would complain about the owners never plugging the thing in, really hard know what to do or say.

its fairly simple, the best use of a phev is a constant commute with charging at home and utilising electric for that commute, charging at any charge point doesn't really make sense.

Phevs are now been fitted with ccs and this will only get worse.

kanuseeme

kennethsmyth wrote: »

its fairly simple, the best use of a phev is a constant commute with charging at home and utilising electric for that commute, charging at any charge point doesn't really make sense.

Phevs are now been fitted with ccs and this will only get worse.

How it doesn't make sense? You have a phev? You done the calculations based on your experience? Better to burn petrol?

Honestly I cannot wait, I would love a merc 350 de, or maybe a B class. Shame the BMW x5 hasn't got CCS.

cannco253

I’d say when phev owners have to queue with bev drivers to charge at busy locations it might change their minds. Why would you waste time if you don’t really have to - I thought that was the whole point of phevs for some people.

Busman Paddy Lasty

Guessing it's the convenience factor. A free eCars spot in a jammed car park is a no brainer and only adds €1/hour to parking cost for most PHEVs.

eCars AC22 units should have a minimum fee of 11kW to deter low power usages.

ELM327

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Guessing it's the convenience factor. A free eCars spot in a jammed car park is a no brainer and only adds €1/hour to parking cost for most PHEVs.

eCars AC22 units should have a minimum fee of 11kW to deter low power usages.

Not at all realistic considering the vast majority of EVs sold can only take 7kW.

AndyBoBandy

ELM327 wrote: »

Not at all realistic considering the vast majority of EVs sold can only take 7kW.

Should be a minimum usage amount of 10kWh then...

same way a lot of petrol pumps have a minimum amount to be dispensed.... 2 litres or something....

So when you plug in and start a session, you are immediately charged €2.40 for 10kWh of electricity, and then once the counter rolls over 10kWh, charging as normal per kWh resumes...... anyone in a BEV who might desperately need only 6-7kWh to get home will happily pay the premium I'm sure for the very odd time they might need less than 10kWh from an AC unit.

Would probably solve the PHEV issue overnight.

the_amazing_raisin

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Gorey services today. Leaf on ESB charge point. All four Ionity stalls in use. Another EV rolled in when we were waiting. Yikes!

Would like to see eCars seriously crack on with the next 40 x 3-8 car hubs.

At least if they're getting used then there's no excuses for not installing more chargers. There's clearly demand for them

ELM327

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Should be a minimum usage amount of 10kWh then...

same way a lot or petrol pumps have a minimum amount to be dispensed.... 2 litres or something....

So when you plug in and start a session, you are immediately charged €2.40 for 10kWh of electricity, and then once the counter rolls over 10kWh, charging as normal per kWh resumes...... anyone in a BEV who might desperately need only 6-7kWh to get home will happily pay the premium I'm sure for the very odd time they might need less than 10kWh from an AC unit.

Would probably solve the PHEV issue overnight.

That makes more sense and some places already do that in the UK, minimum charge.

AndyBoBandy

ELM327 wrote: »

That makes more sense and some places already do that in the UK, minimum charge.

It should discourage PHEV's as well as the handy parking brigade (of which I was guilty of once myself...)

Pavillions SC in Swords last year, parking was very busy so I plugged into an eCars charger and dialled the car down to 6 amps....

Busman Paddy Lasty

ELM327 wrote: »

Not at all realistic considering the vast majority of EVs sold can only take 7kW.

ID.3, ID.4, Teslas, e208, Corsa-e, MY20 eNiro, Kona all 11kW AC charging now. The existing stock with 7kW charging will just have to suck it up, including me! Charging a fee for kWh and time exist in Scandanavia for example so charging a minimum dispensing fee isn't a million miles from that model.

C5 Aircross phev has 7kW obc and plenty more phevs will have 7kW charging in the near future. It's in eCars interest to maximise income anyway never mind promoting BEV use of their chargers vs phevs.

liamog

Mod Note: Housekeeping update, the thread has become more of a general ESB eCars network thread, so I've updated the title accordingly

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

Mod Note: Housekeeping update, the thread has become more of a general ESB eCars network thread, so I've updated the title accordingly

Wouldn't be an ecars thread without moving the goalposts after a few years.

liamog

Black_Knight wrote: »

Wouldn't be an ecars thread without moving the goalposts after a few years.

I'm acting under specific instructions from the eCars Facebook rep. They originally wanted me to call it the eCars Discussion Hub

Petetheroadie

liamog wrote: »

I'm acting under specific instructions from the eCars Facebook rep. They originally wanted me to call it the eCars Discussion Hub

Sounds about right in terms of the ESB usage if the word Hub... Hub = 1 Thread

McGiver

AndyBoBandy wrote:

Would probably solve the PHEV issue overnight.

No, the only solution for PHEVs, hoggers and other resource allocation issues is per min charging. Per kWh is OK either for small/developing EV markets - say Ireland 3+ years ago or on the other hand markets with a huge charger network, large hubs and huge chargers:EV ratio (say the Netherlands).

Per kWh won't cut it in Ireland as the EV number increase outpaces charger installation. The fast charger:EV ratio actually decreases in Ireland at the moment.

In most quite developed EV markets, like Germany, Norway, Austria, Sweden, per min (or per kWh AND per min) charge is common.

Busman Paddy Lasty

^^ what price would be suitable for Ireland though, how to price a per minute regime on a socket that can deliver anywhere from 1.3kW up to 22kW?

Black_Knight

Slow charger was removed from Cross Street in Enniskillen. Plugshare suggests there's been no power to the unit for a while now.

Noticed, after I noticed the above, that a week or 2 ago ESB unmarked all the NI units which were marked for replacement. Not sure if there's anything to read into with that, or just cleaning up those perpetually marked units which they've no concrete plans to replace. All NI units need replacing anyways.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

I'm acting under specific instructions from the eCars Facebook rep. They originally wanted me to call it the eCars Discussion Hub

Thanks for renaming the thread, and concealing our lack of progress since 2019.
Regards Anna.

liamog

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

^^ what price would be suitable for Ireland though, how to price a per minute regime on a socket that can deliver anywhere from 1.3kW up to 22kW?

Pick a number per min, if usage drops too low to make the charge point viable reduce the number.

kanuseeme

Funny, reading posts with words like "worse" "problem" "increase price", the "problem" is all in your minds, phev's are an easy target, they are nothing but a ice with a battery.

A BEV driver must accept that for considerable time, there is no guarantee that charging will be hassle free.

Sure increase prices, all it will do is keep cars within range of their house charger, both phev and BEV, it will slow down sales of both as it will be cheaper to drive on fossil fuel.

At the moment Ecars are the only ones who provide a service that is cheaper than using fuel, those using Ionity might as well have a phev, cheaper and less time wasted.

Go back 2 pages, a post with 5 cars charging and another waiting none of which were phev's, you bought your car so live with it.

AndyBoBandy

Price per minute will punish folks in 7kW (or less) capable cars, while rewarding folks in cars that can take more than 11kW (Zoe, Model S dual AC etc).

However price per minute should absolutely apply once a car is no longer charging.

Give something like a 30 minute grace period when the car stops charging, and if not unplugged within that 30 minutes, a €5 charge, and then another €5 charged every 30 minutes the car remains plugged in and blocking the charger.

Busman Paddy Lasty

liamog wrote: »

Pick a number per min, if usage drops too low to make the charge point viable reduce the number.

5c/min

the_amazing_raisin

kanuseeme wrote: »

Funny, reading posts with words like "worse" "problem" "increase price", the "problem" is all in your minds, phev's are an easy target, they are nothing but a ice with a battery.

A BEV driver must accept that for considerable time, there is no guarantee that charging will be hassle free.

Sure increase prices, all it will do is keep cars within range of their house charger, both phev and BEV, it will slow down sales of both as it will be cheaper to drive on fossil fuel.

At the moment Ecars are the only ones who provide a service that is cheaper than using fuel, those using Ionity might as well have a phev, cheaper and less time wasted.

Go back 2 pages, a post with 5 cars charging and another waiting none of which were phev's, you bought your car so live with it.

You are consistenly assuming that all BEVs and PHEVs are using public charging for 100% of their fuel when charging when making price comparisons

Yes, maybe using Ionity full price is more expensive than diesel, but if you only use it once a month and charge at home otherwise, the overall fuel savings are considerable, as has been repeatedly demonstrated

If I was using Ionity exclusively for my charging then I would sign up to a paid subscription and get a considerable discount off the per kWh rate. The paid package pay off quite quickly and are still a lot cheaper than diesel

As for PHEVs using DC chargers, I still cannot see how it makes sense in a cost-benefit way. The whole argument with a PHEV is that you can charge at home/work and use EV mode for day to day driving but still drive long distance without stopping to charge.

Plugging into a DC charger for an hour and paying €0.30/kWh for what is probably only going to be 10km of EV range seems like a massive inconvenience for very little benefit

If you were willing to stop for that amount of time in the first place, then why not buy a BEV?

slave1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Price per minute will punish folks in 7kW (or less) capable cars, while rewarding folks in cars that can take more than 11kW (Zoe, Model S dual AC etc).

However price per minute should absolutely apply once a car is no longer charging.

Give something like a 30 minute grace period when the car stops charging, and if not unplugged within that 30 minutes, a €5 charge, and then another €5 charged every 30 minutes the car remains plugged in and blocking the charger.

Why reinvent a pricing, just follow Tesla's Irish overstay fee of 50c per minute or €1/minute if the station is fully occupied, both charges kick in when SC is complete (5 minute grace period) and both are without an upper limit!!!
Note, they only kick in when SC Station at 50%+ capacity.

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

Why reinvent a pricing, just follow Tesla's Irish overstay fee of 50c per minute or €1/minute if the station is fully occupied, both charges kick in when SC is complete (5 minute grace period) and both are without an upper limit!!!
Note, they only kick in when SC Station at 50%+ capacity.

Sure most ESB stations are at 100% capacity with 1 car charging

slave1

Then a 5 minute grace period before 50c/minute overstay fee without limit

Busman Paddy Lasty

kanuseeme wrote: »

Go back 2 pages, a post with 5 cars charging and another waiting none of which were phev's, you bought your car so live with it.

It was 5 cars charging and 2 waiting! Not a problem whatsoever because the wait was less than 10 minutes before we got to charge, benefits of having four stalls that can do >150kW. Used Ionity twice last year under the old pricing and once this year so the cost is tiny when compared to all mileage costs.

liamog

slave1 wrote: »

Why reinvent a pricing, just follow Tesla's Irish overstay fee of 50c per minute or €1/minute if the station is fully occupied, both charges kick in when SC is complete (5 minute grace period) and both are without an upper limit!!!

An overstay charge doesn't solve the problem of underutilisation of the charging resource. A car charging at 3.3kW on a 43kW charger is a problem for everyone. Charging is limited by the available time at a given charge point.

The practice in Norway of charging per minute encourages users to use the charger during the most optimum charging speed and to utilise the correct charger for the car. One thing I think I saw in a Bjorn video was an option to double charge for a higher at the Delta HPCs. Instead of the current eCars approach of 150kW which drops to 75kW when a second car plugs in, the user could choose via the unit to fully use the 150kW, but paid more for the privilege.

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

Some in Portlaoise and Kells seem convinced by the 70kW CHAdeMO socket.

Address|MaximumPower|SocketType|MinutesInUse
Portlaoise Plaza, Exit 17, M7, Portlaoise, Co.Laois, Ireland|150|TYPE_COMBO_GERMANY|630
Portlaoise Plaza, Exit 17, M7, Portlaoise, Co.Laois, Ireland|70|TYPE_4_CHADEMO|395
Portlaoise Plaza, Exit 17, M7, Portlaoise, Co.Laois, Ireland|50|TYPE_COMBO_GERMANY|205
Portlaoise Plaza, Exit 17, M7, Portlaoise, Co.Laois, Ireland|50|TYPE_4_CHADEMO|195

Address|MaximumPower|SocketType|MinutesInUse
Park Ri Service Station, Cavan Road, Townparks, Kells, Meath.|150|TYPE_COMBO_GERMANY|610
Park Ri Service Station, Cavan Road, Townparks, Kells, Meath.|50|TYPE_4_CHADEMO|280
Park Ri Service Station, Cavan Road, Townparks, Kells, Meath.|50|TYPE_COMBO_GERMANY|165
Park Ri Service Station, Cavan Road, Townparks, Kells, Meath.|70|TYPE_4_CHADEMO|60

Address|MaximumPower|SocketType|MinutesInUse
Circle K M9 Kilcullen, M9, Co. Kildare|150|TYPE_COMBO_GERMANY|1550
Circle K M9 Kilcullen, M9, Co. Kildare|50|TYPE_COMBO_GERMANY|590
Circle K M9 Kilcullen, M9, Co. Kildare|70|TYPE_4_CHADEMO|560
Circle K M9 Kilcullen, M9, Co. Kildare|50|TYPE_4_CHADEMO|485

Address|MaximumPower|SocketType|MinutesInUse
The Galway Plaza, Junction 16, Carrowkeel, Kiltullagh, Co. Galway|150|TYPE_COMBO_GERMANY|895
The Galway Plaza, Junction 16, Carrowkeel, Kiltullagh, Co. Galway|50|TYPE_4_CHADEMO|115
The Galway Plaza, Junction 16, Carrowkeel, Kiltullagh, Co. Galway|50|TYPE_COMBO_GERMANY|460
The Galway Plaza, Junction 16, Carrowkeel, Kiltullagh, Co. Galway|70|TYPE_4_CHADEMO|160

Interestingly one of the busiest paid chargers in the county (Lucan) has about 1300 CCS and 1200 CHAdeMO minutes of use this last week. Busier than all the above other than Kilcullen. I'd imagine if there were 2 units there it'd do more charging than Kilcullen.