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Forced to work from home

Padre_Pio

Just got word today that work is downsizing their offices and the COVID work from home policy is going to be a near-permanent WHF policy.

Basically, the new office will only have hot desks, maybe half as many as there are staff. Employees have to book a desk in advance if they need to come into the office, but your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home.

There's uproar from certain people, but the response is basically put up and shut up.
Personally, there's no mention of home working in my contract. I was looking forward to getting back into the office and I barely have the space for a desk where I'm living at the moment, never mind a full setup.

Anyone have any experience of this? Places like Google and Facebook have said they're looking at similar policies. Any ideas how that went down with staff?

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floorpie

Cyrus wrote: »

that opens up all sorts of taxation issues around permanent establishment for the company.

also even if it were possible, how long do you think a company will pay you an irish wage to live in a much lower cost jurisdiction, that arbitrage wont exist for very long.

Not my problem. I can't afford to subsidise my company's expenditure on office space, so either let me WFH from anywhere I please or give me an office to work from (I know this wont happen however).

Jim2007

newuser99999 wrote: »

Why is it that as soon as someone mentions the social life in work it’s assumed that they have none outside of it? You can have both.

Of course you can, but the majority indicating the need human interaction at work don’t.

Jim2007

Calahonda52 wrote: »

.
If you can do your job from anywhere, then someone anywhere can do your job.
.

But finding that someone is becoming problematic. Even in say India the demand for competent software engineers outstrips the supply.

newuser99999

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well you’ll just have to learn to adapt and build a social life outside the office, which is probably better for your mental health in any case as loosing your social life as well as your job at the time is not good and the same for retirement.

Why is it that as soon as someone mentions the social life in work it’s assumed that they have none outside of it? You can have both.

Cyrus

floorpie wrote: »

Either companies should fully commit to WFH and let people move anywhere they want (including abroad)

that opens up all sorts of taxation issues around permanent establishment for the company.

also even if it were possible, how long do you think a company will pay you an irish wage to live in a much lower cost jurisdiction, that arbitrage wont exist for very long.

floorpie

Many people are saying something along the lines of "balance is the key, blended approaches will be the norm, 2 days a week in office is best".

This is the LEAST sensible approach.

Either companies should fully commit to WFH and let people move anywhere they want (including abroad) or they should assure you of office space every day without impediments (e.g. hoping that desks are free to book). It is senseless to chain people to high rent in cities, requiring them to keep their commute short, so that they can be arbitrarily called in for meetings maybe a day or two a week. I can see only one side that benefits from such a balance, and it's not the employee.

Jim2007

Swaine wrote: »

Some folk actually enjoy and need the social interaction in the workplace. I certainly enjoy the craic at work with my colleagues. It's good for head. Also, the commute can be enjoyable for the most part too.

Well you’ll just have to learn to adapt and build a social life outside the office, which is probably better for your mental health in any case as loosing your social life as well as your job at the time is not good and the same for retirement.

The last two places I worked in before retirement had hot desks and in theory you needed to book them. In reality you never needed to do so because the office was always less than half full. You could even use the same office every day if you wished to.

Once you remove the obligation to attend the office, people will make different lifestyle choices. Some want to live close to where they grew up, be near aged parents, better access to schools or colleges, easier access to the countryside for hobbies etc. Your work routine may not change, but your office experience will be different, many of the people you meet will be occasional visitors you only see a couple of times a year and so on.

Christy42

Calahonda52 wrote: »

.
If you can do your job from anywhere, then someone anywhere can do your job.
.

This will be the next big shift, to off shore once the SW supports finish and 1,000's will be left go.

Given most are going to a hybrid approach it seems rough to make that work from India. There are reasons places built offices here in the first place most of which will still apply in any case whether for regulatory reasons or skill sets or whatever.

[Deleted User]

Calahonda52 wrote: »

.
If you can do your job from anywhere, then someone anywhere can do your job.
.

This will be the next big shift, to off shore once the SW supports finish and 1,000's will be left go.

Good. Plenty of dead wood in companies. The extinction of the dinosaurs.

Christy42

newuser99999 wrote: »

My company hires hundreds of graduates a year. I’m not going to be the person who complains to my boss over a situation he has no control over.

It doesn't have to be a full on moan. Just a I am looking forward to being back in the office. Mentioning some pros with the cons. However if someone says they don't want the office to be open till next year it is one hell of a reach to then say they hate WFH.

There is a massive difference to college from and work from home. College was mostly about the social side with some work thrown in. Work is mostly about the work with a little social interaction thrown in.

Calahonda52

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

WFH suits us as we both have flexibility to work from teh office on alternate dates so we dont have to pay childcare and we really love the saving on commute times. That said we had to invest heavily in creating two office spaces in our home which neither company contributed in any way towards.

My work is all hotdesks now but since Im engineering an we need loads of test kit, we kept desks on one of teh smaller offices so thats good.

I see people on calls who are working from their bedroom. they work and sleep in the same place. Thats a horror. Huge investment in 'WeWork"/dogpatch type deskspace for hire scattered throughout the country and comnaies to subsidise using them would alleviate that a fair bit.

one thing for sure, LAW (Living at work) will be the absolute norm if people dont start making more clear demands from their companies on what they have to contribute.

.
If you can do your job from anywhere, then someone anywhere can do your job.
.

This will be the next big shift, to off shore once the SW supports finish and 1,000's will be left go.

irelandrover

Deleted User wrote: »

It was preceded by a question. You've one more go at this.

You finished with a statement. You asked a question and answered it yourself. You can pretend you were just asking questions all you want.

Do i think you are being genuine in this? No i do not.

[Deleted User]

irelandrover wrote: »

It doesn't sound like it.

That's a statement.

It was preceded by a question. You've one more go at this.

irelandrover

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm asking a question, not making a statement. Try to keep up or don't respond to my posts.

It doesn't sound like it.

That's a statement.

[Deleted User]

irelandrover wrote: »

I'm not a graduate. I don't have a problem. But you asked why a graduate wouldn't tell their boss they are unhappy.

That's quite the leap in bold there after you complaining about people putting words in your mouth.

I'm asking a question, not making a statement. Try to keep up or don't respond to my posts.

irelandrover

Deleted User wrote: »

Is lack of social interaction the sole problem here? There's nothing else? It doesn't sound like it.

I'm not a graduate. I don't have a problem. But you asked why a graduate wouldn't tell their boss they are unhappy.

That's quite the leap in bold there after you complaining about people putting words in your mouth.

[Deleted User]

newuser99999 wrote: »

My company hires hundreds of graduates a year. I’m not going to be the person who complains to my boss over a situation he has no control over.

So does mine. I know you think I'm an evil boss, but if a graduate came to me voicing concerns I would listen and do what I can to make that person's life easier, even if I couldn't solve everything.

[Deleted User]

irelandrover wrote: »

Because there is nothing my boss could do about it. If a lack of face to face or social interaction is a problem the only solution is to bring my team into the office or do after hours things. Do i really want to be the guy that forces my team into an office one day a week during a pandemic or force everyone to stay for online drinks on a friday evening?

Is lack of social interaction the sole problem here? There's nothing else? It doesn't sound like it.

newuser99999

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why wouldn't you? Minus the hate part. Unless your boss is an asshole, they should try to help you with this. They hired you, they should want to retain you.

My company hires hundreds of graduates a year. I’m not going to be the person who complains to my boss over a situation he has no control over.

irelandrover

Deleted User wrote: »

Why wouldn't you? Minus the hate part. Unless your boss is an asshole, they should try to help you with this. They hired you, they should want to retain you.

Because there is nothing my boss could do about it. If a lack of face to face or social interaction is a problem the only solution is to bring my team into the office or do after hours things. Do i really want to be the guy that forces my team into an office one day a week during a pandemic or force everyone to stay for online drinks on a friday evening?

jakiah

facehugger99 wrote: »

According to a recent survey in our place of work, the vast, vast majority of people favour either full-time WFH or 1-2 days a week in the office.

less than 10% would favour going back to the office full time.

I know we are adopting a hotdesk model when we do eventually return and I'm sure the tiny percentage of people who want to be in an office everyday will be able to do so. Personally I'd hate it and if it was insisted that we needed to go back to fulltime office working, I'd leave and get a job elsewhere.

Should be trivial for your company to provide a permanent desk for 10% and hostdesking for the rest. Everyone wins. Just the usual jobsworths whinging about this stuff.

[Deleted User]

newuser99999 wrote: »

Why would I tell my boss that I hate work from home and I’m not enjoying the job?

Why wouldn't you? Minus the hate part. Unless your boss is an asshole, they should try to help you with this. They hired you, they should want to retain you.

facehugger99

According to a recent survey in our place of work, the vast, vast majority of people favour either full-time WFH or 1-2 days a week in the office.

less than 10% would favour going back to the office full time.

I know we are adopting a hotdesk model when we do eventually return and I'm sure the tiny percentage of people who want to be in an office everyday will be able to do so. Personally I'd hate it and if it was insisted that we needed to go back to fulltime office working, I'd leave and get a job elsewhere.

Cyrus

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

WFH suits us as we both have flexibility to work from teh office on alternate dates so we dont have to pay childcare and we really love the saving on commute times. T

so is the person who is WFH also minding kids

[Deleted User]

jakiah wrote: »

Exactly, its not an either or situation. Ive always gone into the office (or to a customer site) for meetings some days, worked from home others. There seem to be a lot of dinosaurs working in Ireland.

I've been working some form of hybrid for three years, maybe longer. I was one of the few people in my office availing of it. Now that the pandemic has forced our hand, everyone wants hybrid.

One of the few benefits of covid, I say.

ineedeuro

irelandrover wrote: »

This pandemic is only going on 15 months. So most graduates would only be in the job about a year. What graduate is really going to tell their boss that they dislike their job because they have to work from home in the first year?

Graduates might be doing the job well but id seriously doubt they are integrated into the company. And by that i mean that they would be likely to stay if another job came along.

For me the social aspect of a company was just as important as the work itself when i was a graduate.

Im not their boss, they work on my team and are colleagues.

Cyrus

irelandrover wrote: »

For me the social aspect of a company was just as important as the work itself when i was a graduate.

absolutely

some of my best friends are people i met in my first job (it was a graduate programme so effectively an extension of college years in the social aspect)

jakiah

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

WFH suits us as we both have flexibility to work from teh office on alternate dates so we dont have to pay childcare

You wont be able to look after children all day in a WFH situation post-Covid, thats not how it works.

newuser99999

ineedeuro wrote: »

We have graduates working for us and no problem. Some hired prior to lockdown and some hired during. Now they could be lying but I was talking to one of the ladies the other day and she hopes we don't open the offices till next year.

Why would I tell my boss that I hate work from home and I’m not enjoying the job? I’m thankful to have any job this year. I know lots of graduates who didn’t get one or their graduate program was cancelled.

jakiah

Christy42 wrote: »

I am really curious if people are forgetting hybrid roles in all of this.

Exactly, its not an either or situation. Ive always gone into the office (or to a customer site) for meetings some days, worked from home others. There seem to be a lot of dinosaurs working in Ireland.