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Forced to work from home

Padre_Pio

Just got word today that work is downsizing their offices and the COVID work from home policy is going to be a near-permanent WHF policy.

Basically, the new office will only have hot desks, maybe half as many as there are staff. Employees have to book a desk in advance if they need to come into the office, but your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home.

There's uproar from certain people, but the response is basically put up and shut up.
Personally, there's no mention of home working in my contract. I was looking forward to getting back into the office and I barely have the space for a desk where I'm living at the moment, never mind a full setup.

Anyone have any experience of this? Places like Google and Facebook have said they're looking at similar policies. Any ideas how that went down with staff?

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whippet

ednwireland wrote: »

what if the eir fibre stops 200yards from your house, imagine cant be bothered, poor mobile signal. an you have 2mb broadband (on a good day !)

that is why we need remote working hubs all over the country and from what I've read this is happening and the government are backing it

[Deleted User]

KaneToad wrote: »

I think the people who enjoy the WFH option are not the kind of person to work 10 hour days. I'm one of those. I do the bare minimum contracted hours. No interest in overtime.

I don't understand people who work long hours. When I see people doing that, I don't see a hard worker, I see inefficiency.

PokeHerKing

floorpie wrote: »

It seems to me that people with kids, or who have nice offices at home, love it.

Personally I'd rather a commute than having to be in my bedroom for 18+ hours a day, and I can't believe companies seem to be segueing into this being "normal" and others defending it

Given the dynamics of most offices you should find a natural equilibrium develop then. Unless the staff are heavily weighted towards college grads etc the split should work itself out really.

Id bite your hand off for my company to roll out similar. Thoughts of going back into the office full-time

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

Our office is going with a hybrid approach on a permanent basis. So I'll eventually meet new starters there.

But to address your concern, grads and new starters have already joined us during the pandemic and have been successfully integrated.

Like I said, the old world is gone. Firm handshake no longer mandatory. Welcome to the 21st century.

how do you know grads have been successfully integrated? the proof of that wont come for 3-5 years until they are moved into positions of increasing responsibility.

In your opinion the old world is gone, you seem to be happy about it, were you unhappy in the office enviroment?

KaneToad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't understand people who work long hours. When I see people doing that, I don't see a hard worker, I see inefficiency.

If you can't get the job done in the contracted hours there is something wrong:

1) with you

Or

2) with the job

El Tarangu

I live in a biggish apartment by myself, so I don't mind the WFH, but some of the rationalisations on this thread from its proponents are mental...

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Change is good when you look at any situation you can see a glass half full or half empty. If you are renting and the place you are in is unsuitable look for a place that suits better. Maybe this is the chance to move a distance and buy a cheap one or two bed apartment or house.

"If your employer unilaterally changes your employment conditions, don't be a sourpuss - just go and buy a house!"

Cyrus

KaneToad wrote: »

I think the people who enjoy the WFH option are not the kind of person to work 10 hour days. I'm one of those. I do the bare minimum contracted hours. No interest in overtime.

I get it that people like going into the office. But I think WFH models are better for balanced regional development and overall social advancement.

the irony is a lot of people complain they do longer hours wfh as they dont have the seperation from work, thats a personal thing to work on i suppose.

Cyrus

KaneToad wrote: »

If you can't get the job done in the contracted hours there is something wrong:

1) with you

Or

2) with the job

true in some cases, if you are someone who works in mergers and acquisitions for example that kind of rhetoric wont get you too far though.

whippet

Over the last number of years I have found the best way to disconnect after a day of working from home is to go out for a walk.

I will go to the gym or for a walk every day at 5pm ... this is like the commute and when you get back to the house the day's work is long left behind you

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

how do you know grads have been successfully integrated? the proof of that wont come for 3-5 years until they are moved into positions of increasing responsibility.

In your opinion the old world is gone, you seem to be happy about it, were you unhappy in the office enviroment?

Because I'm good at my job, that's how I know they are integrating well. I interact with them directly through calls, or indirectly through their work. If you can't assess performance remotely then you're not a good manager.

I wasn't unhappy in the office, I just thought it was terribly inefficient. I feel vindicated in that belief, because working remotely has opened others eyes to what I saw all along.

KaneToad

Cyrus wrote: »

true in some cases, if you are someone who works in mergers and acquisitions for example that kind of rhetoric wont get you too far though.

A job is a job. You are being paid for your labour.

Christy42

Darc19 wrote: »

That's how hot desking works.

Many people are afraid of change, but a few months later they wonder why it wasn't done years ago.

Covid has advanced change dramatically and it has been beneficial to most people.

Saw a hotdesking policy in a place without enough WFH take up and it is not great. Most just went to the same desk every day. If you lost your desk you ended up wandering around for 10 minutes to find a desk. This was then followed by people getting delayed trying to find you since you weren't in the usual spot.

Booking systems do work better but I think it does need some mandatory WFH which the poster wants to avoid. Potentially though there will be exceptions especially if they have a specific reason that they can't WFH as effectively or some are willing to WFH more than required which seems likely.

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

Because I'm good at my job, that's how I know they are integrating well. I interact with them directly through calls, or indirectly through their work. If you can't assess performance remotely then you're not a good manager.

I wasn't unhappy in the office, I just thought it was terribly inefficient. I feel vindicated in that belief, because working remotely has opened others eyes to what I saw all along.

If you think remote working is the best thing for graduates then we wont agree, i personally couldnt think of anything worse if i was back at that stage.

And of course you can assess work performance remotely, any ass can do that, especially with the kind if work you assign to graduates. I just cant see how their overall professional or general development is aided by working, most likely, from a bedroom in their parents house.

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

If you think remote working is the best thing for graduates then we wont agree, i personally couldnt think of anything worse if i was back at that stage.

And of course you can assess work performance remotely, any ass can do that, especially with the kind if work you assign to graduates. I just cant see how their overall professional or general development is aided by working, most likely, from a bedroom in their parents house.

I didn't say it was the best thing for graduates, you're just putting words in my mouth now.

I think we're done here. When people start pulling this stuff out, it tends to go downhill.

a_squirrelman

Cyrus wrote: »

this is like the endless cycling / motorists debates in the dun laoghaire thread.

can the WFH fans not understand that some people prefer the office, whats it to you?

Maybe you like to sit in your bedroom half dressed all day and on zoom calls for 10 hours, good for you, enjoy it.

We've no problem with you going to the office. It's nothing to me.

Cyrus

KaneToad wrote: »

A job is a job. You are being paid for your labour.

depends on how much you want to get paid in the future.

when we were trainees in a large accountancy practice being paid relative peanuts taking the i am only working the hours i am being paid for would have been detrimental to future career prospects.

depends on what sector you are in.

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't say it was the best thing for graduates, you're just putting words in my mouth now.

I think we're done here. When people start pulling this stuff out, it tends to go downhill.

dont backtrack so fast, you are a firm advocate for wfh, the old world is gone etc, if wfh isnt best for graduates what is then? may as well expand on it instead of running away from it.

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

dont backtrack so fast, you are a firm advocate for wfh, the old world is gone etc, if wfh isnt best for graduates what is then? may as well expand on it instead of running away from it.

You're just looking for a fight. No thanks.

Cyrus

a_squirrelman wrote: »

We've no problem with you going to the office. It's nothing to me.

and you preferring to work from home is nothing to me either.

whippet

Graduates these days are different to what they were 10 years ago.

College students these days will probably never send a work related email in a few years - it would be like showing a graduate 10 years ago a sheet of paper and asking them to fax it to someone.

Tech changes, work practices change and communications change - COVID has just accelerated these changes and the challenge is now how to adapt to these changes with the least disruption.

You can be sure that the majority of graduates these days would loath the thoughts of having to commute 9-5 everyday to an office on congested public transport and roads for the rest of their working life.

Managers need to learn to manage remotely - my boss has been based in Italy for the last 12 months and it has made zero difference to how we interact. I have on boarded 8 new staff in the last year and have only met 4 of them face to face .. and we haven’t encountered any issues.

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

You're just looking for a fight. No thanks.

no, i am asking you to clarify your position, if you are unable to just say so, no need to invent a confrontation.

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

no, i am asking you to clarify your position, if you are unable to just say so, no need to invent a confrontation.

There's a skill to avoiding confrontation and infractions on boards. It involves identifying who they are and then disengaging.

Have a nice day.

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a skill to avoiding confrontation and infractions on boards. It involves identifying who they are and then disengaging.

Have a nice day.

not only are you brilliant at your job, you are brilliant at boards too

[Deleted User]

whippet wrote: »

Graduates these days are different to what they were 10 years ago.

College students these days will probably never send a work related email in a few years - it would be like showing a graduate 10 years ago a sheet of paper and asking them to fax it to someone.

Tech changes, work practices change and communications change - COVID has just accelerated these changes and the challenge is now how to adapt to these changes with the least disruption.

You can be sure that the majority of graduates these days would loath the thoughts of having to commute 9-5 everyday to an office on congested public transport and roads for the rest of their working life.

Managers need to learn to manage remotely - my boss has been based in Italy for the last 12 months and it has made zero difference to how we interact. I have on boarded 8 new staff in the last year and have only met 4 of them face to face .. and we haven’t encountered any issues.

Yeah, it's actually remarkably easy to work remotely and effectively when you actually try. There's no sense in clinging on to the past. The times they are a changing.

[Deleted User]

One thing we'll never run out of is complaints anyway. We should tax them.

ftbman

This is a trend that corporations have been trying to popularize for a long time now. I work for a large multinational company and working from home has been on the agenda for at least the past 10 years. Covid just helped turn it into reality. WFH represents a lot of savings on the corp part for obvious reasons. However, it's not all bad news for the workforce.

You can claim tax relief and other wfh related costs:
Heating
Electricity
Broadband
Other vouched expenses where they are “wholly, exclusively and necessarily” part of your work

Be it as it may, if your place of work is not specified in your contract, or the specification is broad and vague, you'll just have to put up with it. Alternatively, you can try and negotiate new terms. As a last resort, you can always quit working for an inflexible employer.

Ger Roe

blindsider wrote: »

When did it get waived? I don't remember seeing that in the legislation...maybe I missed it...

Do you have any links etc to support this?

No officially waived, but certainly ignored by most. Very few companies gave a thought as to how their employees were managing with their non 'office' spaces. This was particularly true of the lauded success of remote learning. Secondary level kids were confined to their bedrooms for up to 10 hours a day (class and homework/study) without a thought for how they were doing it - some were working off phones without desk space, others in totally unsuitable seating and desk spaces, most resentful of the fact that their home was being invaded by school.

Personally, I have been working from home since March 2020 and I still resent the fact that what was a spare bedroom is now my office. I don't want to donate part of my limited living space to my employer on a rent free basis (any basis really) and I need the separation of work and life that the formal office situation gives.

I hate the feeling of having a tough day at the office (now bedroom) and essentially still being at the office when I supposedly clock off. I don't want reminders of my work commitments being left around the house constantly.

It may seem like an advantage for most now... but wait and see what the long term mental effects might be when it becomes harder to switch off - nothing worse that being under work pressures in your own home.

El Tarangu

ftbman wrote: »

You can claim tax relief and other wfh related costs:
Heating
Electricity
Broadband
Other vouched expenses where they are “wholly, exclusively and necessarily” part of your work

I would be interested in learning of any real-life instances of PAYE employees having successfully claimed for any of the above.

Christy42

whippet wrote: »

Graduates these days are different to what they were 10 years ago.

College students these days will probably never send a work related email in a few years - it would be like showing a graduate 10 years ago a sheet of paper and asking them to fax it to someone.

Tech changes, work practices change and communications change - COVID has just accelerated these changes and the challenge is now how to adapt to these changes with the least disruption.

You can be sure that the majority of graduates these days would loath the thoughts of having to commute 9-5 everyday to an office on congested public transport and roads for the rest of their working life.

Managers need to learn to manage remotely - my boss has been based in Italy for the last 12 months and it has made zero difference to how we interact. I have on boarded 8 new staff in the last year and have only met 4 of them face to face .. and we haven’t encountered any issues.

The common complaint of the youth today is that they spend all their time communicating remotely instead of face to face. On that basis they seem like they perfect generation for WFH. Also few companies will never have work from the office so having some people in a few days to help onboard graduates before they move to WFH is no hassle.

[Deleted User]

I imagine my employer will move to a hybrid model - working from home and hot desking.

I see the benefits of both and would like a mix.
I enjoy being at home as I have plenty of space in a spare room and it has a full size desk and office chair. I save time commuting and have more time with my kids.

Equally I enjoy being in the office to meet and chat with people I don't work with directly.

My biggest concern is a selfish one - for a variety of reasons I have my own office at work with a window and a view of sorts - if I say I want to wfh part time will I get to keep it?
I'll have to come up with a good argument.