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Forced to work from home

Padre_Pio

Just got word today that work is downsizing their offices and the COVID work from home policy is going to be a near-permanent WHF policy.

Basically, the new office will only have hot desks, maybe half as many as there are staff. Employees have to book a desk in advance if they need to come into the office, but your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home.

There's uproar from certain people, but the response is basically put up and shut up.
Personally, there's no mention of home working in my contract. I was looking forward to getting back into the office and I barely have the space for a desk where I'm living at the moment, never mind a full setup.

Anyone have any experience of this? Places like Google and Facebook have said they're looking at similar policies. Any ideas how that went down with staff?

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floorpie

Calahonda52 wrote: »

If you can prove the cost piece that is wholly incurred just for doing the paid work, then you may have a case.
.
Better to look at the e-working from home allowance

Wasn't aware of this, thanks!

Dark Phoenix

I’ve worked from home since 2015 and love it. I hate commuting and when the company moved further away from my home I started home working as I just cannot spend 3-4 hours a day sat in traffic wasting time. It honest used to affect me mentally as I felt like I was wasting my life crawling along the motorway bumper to bumper. I used to end up working late to allow traffic to ease enough to leave the industrial estate. I’d never go back to commuting. My apartment is tiny but I’ve a desk in the corner of the siting room / kitchen area and I’m fine with that as the loss of space more than makes up for having several extra hours every day

[Deleted User]

floorpie wrote: »

Wasn't aware of this, thanks!

It’s amazing to me that, while telling people to work from home, some employers seemingly didn’t point out this allowance and advise on how to avail of it

[Deleted User]

As been posted on the other much longer ongoing WFH thread... the experience people have had of WFH during the panedemic when they had no other option is not the same experience as WFH during non-covid times. WFH will feel very different when things have reopened again and its possible to go somewhere for your lunch, or go out after work to socialise/meet friends.

Forsa (the public sector union) is seeking to include an "opt out" for those who don't wish to WFH, so no one in the public sector is going to be "forced" to work from home. However, the way I look at it is, the more people who are happy to WFH, the more hot / permanent desk spaces will be free for those who don't. I'm quite happy to stay as I am working from home full time and leave the office spaces available for someone else who wants one. I'm not opposed to going in 1/2 days a week, if business needs require it, but in the last 15 months I can't think of a single instance where attendance in the office would have been necessary from a business needs point of view. My role does not include fulfilling my work colleagues need for social interaction!

Bicyclette

I love working from home. My old commute wasn't very far - wasn't much longer than my normal daily walk. BUT one thing I do miss is the informal chats on the stairs or the corridor. The informal information sharing. The quick questions that you don't want to put in an email or ask in an online meeting. The informal information sharing might be work related or skills related. But it all added up.

I don't have a formal office space, my corner of the couch isn't very ergonomic. But my back and neck are in so much better shape since I stared working from home. However I do have a lot of light - I sit by a window. I don't have constant noise or distractions. And if I need some air, I don't have to run down several flights of stairs and clock out. I can just step over to the patio door.

There are pros and cons of each scenario. A win-win situation would be to try and harvest the best of both worlds and make them available to all employees.

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

If you don't have a dedicated space, WFH sucks, if you do, its great

disagree, i have a shomera, all kitted out, i probably have a better set up at home than i do in work, i still miss the office.

Miss the interaction with my colleagues, the odd lunch, the even less frequent night out, tbh i even miss the 35 min of peace on the dart every morning.

You like WFH good for you, for anyone of a social persuasion where work isnt a slog of a commute getting into the office isnt all bad.

Cyrus

Qrt wrote: »

I know it’s different but I found college from home absolutely diabolical. I’ve met nine of my fellow classmates (I switched courses) and it’s f**king awful. It’s turned me off the idea of WfH for a very long time, at least until I’m in the position of having a separate office anyway.

i have to say whatever about having to wfh as someone in their 30s or 40s with a family and space to do it, there are some benefits,

i really really pity students at the moment that can attend university (the best years of your life taken away imo) and people who are just starting their careers, absolute nightmare.

Vegeta

floorpie wrote: »

It seems to me that people with kids, or who have nice offices at home, love it.

Definitely not, working from home with kids is a nightmare for some

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

As been posted on the other much longer ongoing WFH thread... the experience people have had of WFH during the panedemic when they had no other option is not the same experience as WFH during non-covid times. WFH will feel very different when things have reopened again and its possible to go somewhere for your lunch, or go out after work to socialise/meet friends.

Forsa (the public sector union) is seeking to include an "opt out" for those who don't wish to WFH, so no one in the public sector is going to be "forced" to work from home. However, the way I look at it is, the more people who are happy to WFH, the more hot / permanent desk spaces will be free for those who don't. I'm quite happy to stay as I am working from home full time and leave the office spaces available for someone else who wants one. I'm not opposed to going in 1/2 days a week, if business needs require it, but in the last 15 months I can't think of a single instance where attendance in the office would have been necessary from a business needs point of view. My role does not include fulfilling my work colleagues need for social interaction!

It's a new world we're entering over next few years post covid, not all employees OR employers will embrace the change up ahead equally. I see no point in comparison between private / public....... like pensions, conditions, sick pay etc there is no benefit in comparing the two. Over the last 15months I've gone in about 1 ( long, 12hr) day a week but, in reality, if I had gone in half a day per fortnight it wouldn't have made any difference.....there was very little I couldn't do WFH. The one thing I DO miss is that Franke coffee machine in canteen.....used to visit that lady 5/6 times a day & she always delivered.

Cyrus

OSI wrote: »

I know a few of them are the type that spend the day hopping between desks for the bants and get **** all work done.

and i see people who are never online when you want them when they are supposed to WFH, whats your point?

wasters will always be wasters, at home or in the office, but they will probably be worse at home.

[Deleted User]

The ergonomics etc. conformity will only be an issue when John or Mary have a work place accident in their home. THEN it will be taken seriously.

As for WFH, what will people have to complain about, no 'oh, my gawd, I was cut off in traffic this morning, and I'd only just begun my 2 hour journey to work.' or 'What a bitch Sarah is, she took the last bundle of A4 paper.'

You have my sympathies.

It'll really benefit those that commute to the likes of London or even Dublin. But, some employers WILL NOT allow employees to work from home due to lack of trust issues. Those that want to commute to work just need to find those employers

ineedeuro

It's a funny old World. Prior to lockdown everyone wanted to work from home. Well the majority anyway

Now people are getting the option to WFH and they want rent paid etc.
If the office turns around and tell the same people they can no longer WFH and have to go into office they will start complaining about commute time.
Some people you just can't please

piplip87

I'm in the opposite position. Working from home and and they are adamant that we will have to go back to the office. Quite simply because some have taken the absolute piss. The joys of working with people who are only here to avoid a gap in their CV.

Saying that I love WFH but a big part of that is I have a 3 hour round trip commute and we had a smallish wardrobe room off the main bedroom which is now a fairly comfortable office.

I will leaving this job as their plenty of full time WFH roles going in this sector.

As for financially the commute costs about 100 quid a week. I have no problem putting a portion of that for heating during the winter. The Internet and Electricity bills would be there regardless.

You cannot beat eating dinner at 5:30 with the family everyday

[Deleted User]

OSI wrote: »

The HR team here did a whole bunch of surveying and profiling before deciding on their future office plans as the office lease was coming up for renewal. /QUOTE]

Slightly off topic.....but the amount of quality urban office space that leases aren't being renewed on after 2022/23 is ominous

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

and i see people who are never online when you want them when they are supposed to WFH, whats your point?

wasters will always be wasters, at home or in the office, but they will probably be worse at home.

But then deal with them. If they are wasters in the office and also cant be trusted to work from home, then they should be performance managed out of the company. Why are they still employed?

There are many reasons why WFH does not work for some individuals or some types of company, but fear of poor performance should not be a reason that people are pulled back into the office

ineedeuro

One of the huge advantage of WFH is people don't need to live beside the office. Instead of spending 500k for a tiny house they can move outside major cities. This will not only help with pollution in major cities but also regeneration of smaller towns.

If you are sharing in a 4 bed house paying mental rent, you could probably rent a 4 bed house for the same price an hour outside Dublin. If you are not working everyday in the city why do you need to be based in it? it's not like you can go to the pub :-)

Padre_Pio

OSI wrote: »

The HR team here did a whole bunch of surveying and profiling before deciding on their future office plans as the office lease was coming up for renewal.

Had a similar survey at work.
We have a workforce with varying requirements and varying levels of experience, yet everyone's vote counts the same.

The overwhelming result that people wanted a mix of office and WFH. The sentiment was that people would like the choice to kick back at home the odd friday with paperwork. There was no mention at the time that the company was downsizing and people would lose desks.

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

... tbh i even miss the 35 min of peace on the dart every morning.

Nothing stopping you continuing to do this. Although, you might want to cut the journey in half in the morning. Head off on the dart, only go half the distance and head home... to work.

whippet

as with all organisational change it needs to be managed - how it's managed it up to the company but generally these things need a lead in period and done in phases.

Since we decided on a flexible arrangement 4 years ago our staff retention has never been higher and we have opened up our recruitment nationwide - which is a win win.

Some of our employees have moved out of dublin - back home if you like.

As for productivity - if you can't trust your employees to work from home / remotely you have the wrong employees - simple as that.

shesty

Same here.Most people want a mix so they are allowing a max number of days per week from home and I think there has veen mention of hot desking.
I notice a town near us has converted an old building into a small shared working space with desks, broadband and the like.More of those spaces would probably be the ideal, at least people whose home set up wasn't suitable for WFH might have an option to use a space like that a few times a week.

Wildly Boaring

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nothing stopping you continuing to do this. Although, you might want to cut the journey in half in the morning. Head off on the dart, only go half the distance and head home... to work.

Or even go for a 30 min walk in the morning and at lunch?
Peaceful and not sitting on your hole.

To the OP
I do not agree that you are being force to work from home.
You are being forced to hotdesk.
If there comes a day when there are no hotdesks available then you are being forced to work from home and on that day I would escalate to HR.

What is the mysterious equipment that you must carry in and out daily requiring a trolley?

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

But then deal with them. If they are wasters in the office and also cant be trusted to work from home, then they should be performance managed out of the company. Why are they still employed?

There are many reasons why WFH does not work for some individuals or some types of company, but fear of poor performance should not be a reason that people are pulled back into the office

thanks for your concern, youll be happy to know that due to worse performance wfh a number have been performanced managed out

and please dont misrepresent me, a poster said some of the people who wanted to be in the office were not working, i said its also an issue with people wfh, i never said it was a reason not to allow WFH, in the main we have seen excellent productivity.

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing stopping you continuing to do this. Although, you might want to cut the journey in half in the morning. Head off on the dart, only go half the distance and head home... to work.

great idea. thanks for that.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But, some employers WILL NOT allow employees to work from home due to lack of trust issues. Those that want to commute to work just need to find those employers

Exactly. If being in the office is so important to you then find employers who falsely believe that things like a firm handshake, a suit and tie and micromanaging are essential business tools. Because I hate to burst your bubble, the pandemic has blown all of that out of the water.

[Deleted User]

We've hire more than we can accommodate in the office now. The plan is to offer WFH for those who want it, some people have moved down the country too. There will be hotdesks and permanent desks for those who prefer to go to the office. I think this is the best approach as I work with quite a few people who are in house shares and don't really have any personal space away from what has become their workspace so it's completely understandable to wish to return to the office.

I think striking a balance like this is key and maybe your employer is a little gung ho into the plans since most people will welcome the change. I'd bring it up with HR/Manager that you'd prefer to be in the office full time and see where that goes, in the end, you're being honest about what would be more productive for you. If they wish to follow the less productive route, then it's on them.

ednwireland

what if the eir fibre stops 200yards from your house, imagine cant be bothered, poor mobile signal. an you have 2mb broadband (on a good day !)

Cyrus

this is like the endless cycling / motorists debates in the dun laoghaire thread.

can the WFH fans not understand that some people prefer the office, whats it to you?

Maybe you like to sit in your bedroom half dressed all day and on zoom calls for 10 hours, good for you, enjoy it.

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly. If being in the office is so important to you then find employers who falsely believe that things like a firm handshake, a suit and tie and micromanaging are essential business tools. Because I hate to burst your bubble, the pandemic has blown all of that out of the water.

WFH is fine for established professionals who already have their relationships built within an organisation, what about the new starters, trainees, graduates.

Let them all WFH for good?

to think every company can exist into the future with everyone WFH is fairytale nonsense.

KaneToad

Cyrus wrote: »

this is like the endless cycling / motorists debates in the dun laoghaire thread.

can the WFH fans not understand that some people prefer the office, whats it to you?

Maybe you like to sit in your bedroom half dressed all day and on zoom calls for 10 hours, good for you, enjoy it.

I think the people who enjoy the WFH option are not the kind of person to work 10 hour days. I'm one of those. I do the bare minimum contracted hours. No interest in overtime.

I get it that people like going into the office. But I think WFH models are better for balanced regional development and overall social advancement.

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

WFH is fine for established professionals who already have their relationships built within an organisation, what about the new starters, trainees, graduates.

Let them all WFH for good?

to think every company can exist into the future with everyone WFH is fairytale nonsense.

Our office is going with a hybrid approach on a permanent basis. So I'll eventually meet new starters there.

But to address your concern, grads and new starters have already joined us during the pandemic and have been successfully integrated.

Like I said, the old world is gone. Firm handshake no longer mandatory. Welcome to the 21st century.