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Forced to work from home

Padre_Pio

Just got word today that work is downsizing their offices and the COVID work from home policy is going to be a near-permanent WHF policy.

Basically, the new office will only have hot desks, maybe half as many as there are staff. Employees have to book a desk in advance if they need to come into the office, but your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home.

There's uproar from certain people, but the response is basically put up and shut up.
Personally, there's no mention of home working in my contract. I was looking forward to getting back into the office and I barely have the space for a desk where I'm living at the moment, never mind a full setup.

Anyone have any experience of this? Places like Google and Facebook have said they're looking at similar policies. Any ideas how that went down with staff?

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Swaine

The DayDream wrote: »

They're taking advantage of you by making it so you can basically live your entire life in pajamas if you choose?

You could always find a job in retail, restaurants, hotels etc if you like being away from home so much. And of course there is always the mines, if the conditions of working from a home office are so oppressive.

:rolleyes:

Breaking news: Not everyone is the same as you.

Some folk actually enjoy and need the social interaction in the workplace. I certainly enjoy the craic at work with my colleagues. It's good for head. Also, the commute can be enjoyable for the most part too.

[Deleted User]

ineedeuro wrote: »

You could argue. Not sure who would agree with you

I can sell most things......but, nope I couldn't sell / argue tyat

atilladehun

[Deleted User]

Swaine wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Breaking news: Not everyone is the same as you.

Some folk actually enjoy and need the social interaction in the workplace. I certainly enjoy the craic at work with my colleagues. It's good for head. Also, the commute can be enjoyable for the most part too.

I get my social interaction outside of work with friends and family and just do my work when I'm working

Not commuting gives me extra time for socializing. Its great

Granted WFH does nto suit everyone for various reasons (tiny home, no space, kids interrupting etc) but for the most part, WFH is bloody awesome.

As we come out of covid, employers have coped on to the fact that WFH is a viable option that works for both parties in most cases.

There will be staff who hate working in the office if forced, they'll leave and get another job

Same with the few who WFH doesn't suit, they'll find something where they can be in the office 100%.

People switch jobs every day of the week for less

I don't see what the big deal is, I really don't

[Deleted User]

Padre_Pio wrote: »

From what I've been told, the hot desk system is like a library. Not guaranteed the same desk, so I'll have to bring everything in and out of work each day.

Yup, thats hot desking

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I have equipment that's not very portable too, so I'll need a trolley. About a quarter of the staff are in the same boat as me.

They need to come up with a solution for that, either permenant desks, or that equipment gets assigned to hot desks that only certain people can book, or lockers etc etc. Its not an unfixable problem

Padre_Pio wrote: »

There was talk that the quarter would have permanent desk space (which also comes with storage and shelves) but that leaves 75% of employees vying for 25% of the space.

So take one of those permanent desks then?

Believe me when I tell you that most of that 25% of space will be empty a lot of the time

Mrs OBumble

limnam wrote: »

How many houses have either knocked on before the pandemic looking for ergonomic reports of home workers?

I worked for one MNC where a home-inspection was part of the process for getting approval for WFH.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup, thats hot desking

They need to come up with a solution for that, either permenant desks, or that equipment gets assigned to hot desks that only certain people can book, or lockers etc etc. Its not an unfixable problem

So take one of those permanent desks then?

Believe me when I tell you that most of that 25% of space will be empty a lot of the time

You got it in a nutshell.......these are small molehills on the plains of life, all very surmountable. I think the OP is 'seeking' negatives in the new world.... the title of the thread is " FORCED TO WFH", as another poster implied nobody is ' forcing' anyone to do anything, it isn't North Korea.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You got it in a nutshell.......these are small molehills on the plains of life, all very surmountable. I think the OP is 'seeking' negatives in the new world.... the title of the thread is " FORCED TO WFH", as another poster implied nobody is ' forcing' anyone to do anything, it isn't North Korea.

I remember a few years ago when the company I worked for in London first switched to hotdesking for all. There was a lot of this same kind of chat. But after just a few days, not even weeks, it settled down and everyone found their rhythm. Some desks moved around between ‘zones’ (a zone might have been around 30 desks)....some teams took a few more, some a few less, depending on level of utilisation which in turn depended on how many people in each team worked from home a couple of days

And then it very fast became 2nd nature. Booked your desks on an app each week for the week ahead. Was very easy.

Laptops with docking stations and a couple of screens, that you could supplement with your own wireless mouse and Bluetooth keyboard if you wanted.

And, of course, over time as people got used to it, there started to be more and more empty desks as people become more accustomed to the flexibility

But it started with much the same sentiment as the OP here

Mrs OBumble

OP, try not to listen to the WFH fans as they try to convince you that you're being unreasonable: you aren't, and you know it.

Right now, you have a contract which says your place of work is "the office address". Your employer is asking you to change this. As a first step, you need to ask them for a copy of the proposed new contract.

Then you need more details of how the proposed setup will work. Will you be given dual equipment, one set to have at your office and one for your off-site location? Will there be storage in the office, if you aren't able to leave it in a desk? Will you be able to block-book a hot-desk? Will there be ergonomic and security inspections of your off-site location - exactly what facilities will you be required to provide? (Eg I know one mid-west company which insist on a non-SIM based modem for wi-fi).

Then weigh up the options, and look hard for alternatives: Does your neighbourhood have an office hubs, or even just empty offices which you could rent? (This could get expensive, but do explore it. Maybe you could even share space with 2-3 colleagues who feel similarly). You could even look for a room in a house-share: perhaps an owner-occupier who doesn't WFH would be willing to rent their home-office to you during the day.

If you cannot find an alternative which works, you need to explore the legal route. If you're in a union, contact them. If not, you may need to hire a solicitor. In short, the company's request to alter your contract needs to be something you can agree to (it may need some sweeteners from the) - or they need to make you redundant.]

Or - you just look for another job. But if you're permanent now, remember that you'll be doing through the whole probation thing again. This could be painful.

Good luck.

Mongfinder General

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, try not to listen to the WFH fans as they try to convince you that you're being unreasonable: you aren't, and you know it.

Right not, you have a contract which says your place of work is "the office address". Your employer is asking you to change this. As a first step, you need to ask them for a copy of the proposed new contract.

Then you need more details of how the proposed setup will work. Will you be given dual equipment, one set to have at your office and one for your off-site location? Will there be storage in the office, if you aren't able to leave it in a desk? Will you be able to block-book a hot-desk? Will there be ergonomic and security inspections of your off-site location - exactly what facilities will you be required to provide? (Eg I know one mid-west company which insist on a non-SIM based modem for wi-fi).

Then weigh up the options, and look hard for alternatives: Does your neighbourhood have an office hubs, or even just empty offices which you could rent? (This could get expensive, but do explore it. Maybe you could even share space with 2-3 colleagues who feel similarly). You could even look for a room in a house-share: perhaps an owner-occupier who doesn't WFH would be willing to rent their home-office to you during the day.

If you cannot find an alternative which works, you need to explore the legal route. If you're in a union, contact them. If not, you may need to hire a solicitor. In short, the company's request to alter your contract needs to be something you can agree to (it may need some sweeteners from the) - or they need to make you redundant.]

Or - you just look for another job. But if you're permanent now, remember that you'll be doing through the whole probation thing again. This could be painful.

Good luck.

Don't forget the added bonus from working from home. Now that you've proven that you can work from home instead of highlighting the **** show you're faced with and not demanding a return to the office at the earliest available opportunity, your bosses know that you'll put up with it. And sure if you can work from home you can work from anywhere. So the graduates in Eastern Europe can join the company. What's that I hear the boss say? Why are we still paying and hiring staff based in Ireland? Now, do we see where this is headed?

Bass Reeves

Change is good when you look at any situation you can see a glass half full or half empty. If you are renting and the place you are in is unsuitable look for a place that suits better. Maybe this is the chance to move a distance and buy a cheap one or two bed apartment or house.

I worked for a company twenty year's ago that put us working from home more or less. We were a mobile workforce we went to work straight from home. You had your tasks it was up to you to get them done. There was about 3-4 hours administration to be done toward the end of the week. You were supposed to go into the office, I installed an ISDN line at home(days of dial up internet access) mobile service was brutal at the house still is.

Anyway after a while I started to make sure I only had admin work on Friday so it was a half day, then I started doing a bit Thursday night, then I do bits of it when I get the chance during the week or catch up over the weekend if need be. I spend 5-6 years and I hardly ever worked a Friday. Ya you take a few phone calls on the mobile but Friday was great if you sorted everything else during the week. It was all about organisation.

If 75% of staff get the option to work from home a desk for 1 in 3 should be adequate. As one poster said get the hotdesks set up right, Most of the stuff is there anyway. Book your HD in advance work from home 1-2 days a week. Maybe work late in the office so when at home you have more free time. It may not be easy but look at the solution not the problem.

shadyslimshady

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, try not to listen to the WFH fans as they try to convince you that you're being unreasonable: you aren't, and you know it.

Right not, you have a contract which says your place of work is "the office address". Your employer is asking you to change this. As a first step, you need to ask them for a copy of the proposed new contract.

Then you need more details of how the proposed setup will work. Will you be given dual equipment, one set to have at your office and one for your off-site location? Will there be storage in the office, if you aren't able to leave it in a desk? Will you be able to block-book a hot-desk? Will there be ergonomic and security inspections of your off-site location - exactly what facilities will you be required to provide? (Eg I know one mid-west company which insist on a non-SIM based modem for wi-fi).

Then weigh up the options, and look hard for alternatives: Does your neighbourhood have an office hubs, or even just empty offices which you could rent? (This could get expensive, but do explore it. Maybe you could even share space with 2-3 colleagues who feel similarly). You could even look for a room in a house-share: perhaps an owner-occupier who doesn't WFH would be willing to rent their home-office to you during the day.

If you cannot find an alternative which works, you need to explore the legal route. If you're in a union, contact them. If not, you may need to hire a solicitor. In short, the company's request to alter your contract needs to be something you can agree to (it may need some sweeteners from the) - or they need to make you redundant.]

Or - you just look for another job. But if you're permanent now, remember that you'll be doing through the whole probation thing again. This could be painful.

Good luck.

Always a Karen in every office.

Strumms

You simply say that you don’t have any suitable space or environment with which to set up an office, you don’t want to compromise your home life by having a mixed work / home environment. You want separation...

JCX BXC

Indeed, I can't fathom how WFH has such a big following, if the pandemic has thought me anything it's that staying inside the same room for most of your time will drive you bonkers.

This is just personal, but I cannot see how I'd offer the same quality of work while at home, between distractions with others in the house, me wanting to skive off, watch TV, browse boards or meet friends, as well as having no set routine. I personally would despise being unable to differentiate between work and home life, I like to switch off, fairly hard to do when the laptop you've been working on all day is staring at you in the face. Maybe for those who have their own luxurious home office it's easier, most of us don't have that luxury.

I think a massive incoming issue is the right to switch off, I know the government have implemented some (likely useless) legislation on this matter, but I feel it will have little effect. When you're at home, why wouldn't your boss expect you to do a certain urgent task when your laptop is beside you. This turns into several seemingly urgent tasks, meaning you do X amount of hours now, that you wouldn't have done in an office.

I'd personally hate it, and if I was forced to do that in my job I would leave it.

Qrt

I know it’s different but I found college from home absolutely diabolical. I’ve met nine of my fellow classmates (I switched courses) and it’s f**king awful. It’s turned me off the idea of WfH for a very long time, at least until I’m in the position of having a separate office anyway.

[Deleted User]

Qrt wrote: »

I know it’s different but I found college from home absolutely diabolical. I’ve met nine of my fellow classmates (I switched courses) and it’s f**king awful. It’s turned me off the idea of WfH for a very long time, at least until I’m in the position of having a separate office anyway.

If you don't have a dedicated space, WFH sucks, if you do, its great

VG31

Qrt wrote: »

I know it’s different but I found college from home absolutely diabolical. I’ve met nine of my fellow classmates (I switched courses) and it’s f**king awful. It’s turned me off the idea of WfH for a very long time, at least until I’m in the position of having a separate office anyway.

I did only did my final year of college at home so that was tolerable but it would be awful as a first year not knowing anyone.

I think there's a significant difference in opinions between age groups. Most people who want 100% WFH seem to be 40+ and married. I'm in my 20s and the majority of people I know prefer the office.

I would personally favour a 3-2 or 4-1 office/home split. Although if the choice was fully office or fully WFH I'd go with the office. I'm relatively introverted but I still like having work colleagues to talk to. Spending 16+ hours a day in my bedroom is not my idea of fun.

Even as someone who hates getting up early, I don't really mind the commute that much.

VG31

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you don't have a dedicated space, WFH sucks, if you do, its great

That's a bit simplistic. While it's much better to have a dedicated home office it doesn't have anything to do with why some people prefer going into the office.

[Deleted User]

VG31 wrote: »

That's a bit simplistic. While it's much better to have a dedicated home office it doesn't have anything to do with why some people prefer going into the office.

Its simplistic because its simple

Funny that

witnessmenow

I have a spare room that I use as an office and I absolutely prefer not having to commute to Dublin but working from home is even still not without it's challenges. We've got two young kids and as soon as they hear my door opening they are ready to pounce! It's a lovely complaint but it's very difficult to take any sort of a break. It was nice to grab tea with buddies at work or go out somewhere for lunch.

I completely understand people wanting to get back into the office. Although I do think comapnies that move to an on demand system will probably be ok space wise as for every one person who wants to be in the office there is probably another who doesn't

Swindled

Some younger people miss the office, and need more office experience.
Some people miss the politics and manipulating they can get up to in the office.
Some have a difficult home situation, and/or not able to set up much of a home office
Some get lonely
Some don't miss the office at all, know their work well, and get far more work done at home
Some like the mixture
Some don't miss the unsustainable commute and sitting in traffic
Business owners love the lower costs
Middle managers miss their office status

One size does not fit all.

Calhoun

The horse has bolted on this one a bit, it's much cheaper having folk work from home or a hybrid version.

Depending on how much the post covid recession hits it may not be much of an option if you want to stay employed.

limnam

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I worked for one MNC where a home-inspection was part of the process for getting approval for WFH.

I should have said except you as you've worked for everyone at this point.

onrail

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Basically say 200 employees, 100 desks.
50 employees need a permanent desk for laptops, monitors, equipment etc (in our opinion), so that leaves 50 desks for 150 employees, which was a no go.

About a year before Covid, my employer began hot desking and flexible working, albeit with room for more than 50%. Everyone was given a workstation laptop, as powerful as required for intensive graphics, processing etc. a 'tray' and a locker. Each hotdesk has two fixed monitors, keyboard, mouse and a docking station.

At the end of every day, we have to clear our desks and stick our stuff in the locker. Of course there was uproar at first, but after a week or two everyone just settled into a new rythm and appreciated the flexibility. There were occasional days where you couldn't get seated in a desired area, but those were few and far-between.

Ultimately, people just adjust and get ready to complain the next time change comes around.

whippet

It does not suit everyone - some people need to get out of the house for the day for various reasons.

Personally it suits me perfectly - I have been doing it for years - maybe pop in to the office once a week to meet up for coffee or a lunch other than that - dedicated office in the house. The wife also works from home and has done for years - so we have a really good routine. Each of us has an office in the house - and if the door is closed it’s do not disturb.

If I was younger and in a house share or at home with the folks I don’t think i could WFH ... it just would be a total ball ache.

Employers need to accommodate both - when deciding on the policy they should take in to account people’s preference. And those who want a space in the office it should be accommodated.

It might turn out that 50% or more will want to work from home so only providing 50% or less of the normal desk / office space is still a good change and cost saving

lawred2

floorpie wrote: »

They've been standard in some places but you were essentially assured a space to work, which you wouldn't be here.

You were never assured of a space to work under hot desk systems.

If you were, it wouldn't be called hot desking.

lawred2

whippet wrote: »

It does not suit everyone - some people need to get out of the house for the day for various reasons.

Personally it suits me perfectly - I have been doing it for years - maybe pop in to the office once a week to meet up for coffee or a lunch other than that - dedicated office in the house. The wife also works from home and has done for years - so we have a really good routine. Each of us has an office in the house - and if the door is closed it’s do not disturb.

If I was younger and in a house share or at home with the folks I don’t think i could WFH ... it just would be a total ball ache.

Employers need to accommodate both - when deciding on the policy they should take in to account people’s preference. And those who want a space in the office it should be accommodated.

It might turn out that 50% or more will want to work from home so only providing 50% or less of the normal desk / office space is still a good change and cost saving

To be fair, each of you having you own dedicated office at home wouldn't be the norm.

So it's not exactly unexpected that such a system works for you.

Try being 26 and in a house share with 4 others and have such a system foisted upon you.

Hot desking certainly works for some people but I don't think it's a good idea to apply it company wide. There has to be some recognition that there will be some home situations that can't facilitate hot desking for all.

(Edit that came across as being in some sort of disagreement with you.. I was actually agreeing with you

)

ineedeuro

I dont think the company is forcing you. I would expect they think the majority of people want to work from home. I have seen multiple companies are doing the same now. They have seen how WFH actual can work for them and employee wont just disappear for the day

Why not put an email together explaining why you want a dedicated desk and request it, first to manager. If not then to HR. Not telling you what to include but if you mention mental health etc you need the space I can't see any company having an issue

I have worked in a hot desk office since 2006. Still we had a number of members of staff who had dedicated desks which you didn't use unless it was past 9.30 and they hadn't arrived. This was allow people to have monitors/keyboards etc.

whippet

lawred2 wrote: »

To be fair, each of you having you own dedicated office at home wouldn't be the norm.

So it's not exactly unexpected that such a system works for you.

Try being 26 and in a house share with 4 others and have such a system foisted upon you.

Hot desking certainly works for some people but I don't think it's a good idea to apply it company wide. There has to be some recognition that there will be some home situations that can't facilitate hot desking for all.

And that is what I said.

In our company those in their 20s tend to work from the office - they live in apartments / house shares and find it impossible to get comfortable / productive.

Also there are a few who just want to get out of the house and these are accommodated.

Remote working /working from home if adopted on a wide scale will have knock on effects for those who still need / choose to go in to the office. LEss traffic and less congestion for one. While I’d hope that eventually you would see less pressure on housing demand in the city’s / suburbs with an associated price drop (probably not going to happen due to constant government interference)

With less people having to commute - local towns and villages should see a resurgence in activity with residents spending more time and money locally when they don’t need to commute.

I know in my case we live rurally and we get more time to participate in local groups / sports and spend much more money in the local economy than when we had to commute every day

Calahonda52

floorpie wrote: »

I'm also hearing rumours of the same thing in my place.

Will I be paid for the company's use of my facilities (room, equipment, electricity, heating etc)? Or is this essentially a permanent pay cut and worse conditions?

I'm especially annoyed that it seems like they'll mandate a day or two in office a week. So not only will the employer get free use of my rented house, but I can't even move to a low cost area of the country.

I'm very annoyed by the whole thing but it seems most people are in favour of WFH.

If you can prove the cost piece that is wholly incurred just for doing the paid work, then you may have a case.
.
Better to look at the e-working from home allowance of 3.2 per day you spend at home, eg its worth 63.40 for 20 days, its not taxed so same as 127 gross/month.
.
63.4 net/month is 760 per annum.
.
If you try deduct expense from Revenue against your tax for the work expense they will need paperwork: if you are too aggressive they will audit you.
If even 10% additional costs are incurred, the e-working allowance is still the way to go, as it the 760 equals the work related costs, this suggests you energy bills are 7,600 pa