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Child Item

Deplorable Conditions at Halting Site

Dempo1

Yet another report but what's curious is the complete absence of a concept known as Parental Responsibility.

Whilst I'm not suggesting Halting Sites are ideal housing solution, they are the preferred choice of many Traveller's.

County Councils seem to me to get mostly blamed for alledged Deplorable Conditions, in this report the Name of relevant county council not revealed which is curious in itself.

More to the point of specific findings affecting children, it seems to me that Parental responsibilities is non existant and certainly never reported on. Sending children to school unwashed or in poor state of dress can not be blamed on local authorities, it's ludicrous. Curious too vasts sums can be spent of luxurious Mobile homes, Vans etc by parents and yet little spent on the welfare and well being of their Children.

I know of a halting Site in the Midlands and the services, water, waste etc would put major industrial developments to shame and yet, the filth, Rubbish, waste allowed to build up by residents is beyond shocking, is this too the fault of local Authorities? I think not.

By all accounts do reports, studies etc but time for a little objectivity but more importantly a focus on PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY.

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[Deleted User]

I stopped listening to rte and reading the Irish times years ago, it's great for your peace of mind

Gamb!t

touts wrote: »

If any member of the settled community forced their children to live in those conditions Tusla would immediately step in and remove the children for their safety. Yet travellers rights groups claim "culture" as a defence for abuse. We could throw millions at this site and within a couple of months of handing it over to the travellers it would be back to being a cess pool of filth and they would be back blaming the settled community for not giving them enough money.

Enough is enough. The only answer is to break up this halting site and force the travellers into houses. But not all in one estate. Scatter them across every housing estate in the country and they will have no choice but to integrate with the rest of society. Then start to apply the full rigor of the law to protect the children.

Well that wont happen to that particular site as it was approved by the majority of the local councilors to turn it into a super site. There was 4 councillors objected and supported the local residents.
Any of the local residents that went to object against this super site were intimidated and video'd so no wonder it was passed.

A long long time ago it was ok with 10 families as they didnt cause too much trouble but its over crowded now.

JP Liz V1

Jacksie66. wrote: »

This is the back of a halting site in Castletroy, Limerick. It's absolutely disgusting. And they wonder why a lot of these places are infested with rats..

:eek:

Wanderer78

whisky_galore wrote: »

You're forgetting, it's hard to "shame" anyone that's shameless.

you d wanna be sitting down with some traveler folks, theres incredible shame there, high levels of addiction, mental health issues, suicides, the works....

MrMusician18

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you d wanna be sitting down with some traveler folks, theres incredible shame there, high levels of addiction, mental health issues, suicides, the works....

Yeah but that's nothing to do with them neglecting children and the lack of Tulsa action here.

whisky_galore

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you d wanna be sitting down with some traveler folks, theres incredible shame there, high levels of addiction, mental health issues, suicides, the works....

Yeah. Naw I'd rather not.

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you d wanna be sitting down with some traveler folks, theres incredible shame there, high levels of addiction, mental health issues, suicides, the works....

yesterday was the best day to turn over a new leaf

today is the second best

change their ways and they will be accepted like anyone else

Mike Murdock

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the whole argument of 'personal responsibility' is actually based on ridiculing and shaming, it doesnt work, certainly with the complexities of social issues, theres layers and layers of complexity in regards traveling communities

And your view infantilises travellers and essentially paints them as mindless agents or automatons incapable of change.

It is a perfect example of the bigotry of low expectations.

buried

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the whole argument of 'personal responsibility' is actually based on ridiculing and shaming, it doesnt work, certainly with the complexities of social issues, theres layers and layers of complexity in regards traveling communities

No there isn't. There is only one complicated scenario at play here, and it is the continual situation where a group of people are allowed to have deemed themselves to be removed from general society and the social and personal responsibility that goes with it. It's beyond a disgrace now at this stage. And the types of people that champion this ludicrous situation are no friends to the traveller's, not in the long run. A good section of these people act like children. Children. No sense of responsibility. No sense of society. Everything is a drama or a party. Everything is handed to you on a plate. But at least with children you must get them to adapt to some sort of knowledge of co-existing in a general society, you have to or else their future is ultimately doomed to a narrow alley of ridiculousness where they will act like a child until this act runs out of patience with everybody and everything else in a functioning society. What you don't do is set up countless NGO's and narratives that champion the notion that people have the right to act like this forever and this behaviour is now in the realm of being considered normal. That is actual abuse.

Bubbaclaus

Mike Murdock wrote: »

And your view infantilises travellers and essentially paints them as mindless agents or automatons incapable of change.

It is a perfect example of the bigotry of low expectations.

Settled saviour.

Mike Murdock

buried wrote: »

No there isn't. There is only one complicated scenario at play here, and it is the continual situation where a group of people are allowed to have deemed themselves to be removed from general society and the social and personal responsibility that goes with it. It's beyond a disgrace now at this stage. And the types of people that champion this ludicrous situation are no friends to the traveller's, not in the long run. A good section of these people act like children. Children. No sense of responsibility. No sense of society. Everything is a drama or a party. Everything is handed to you on a plate. But at least with children you must get them to adapt to some sort of knowledge of co-existing in a general society, you have to or else their future is ultimately doomed to a narrow alley of ridiculousness where they will act like a child until this act runs out of patience with everybody and everything else in a functioning society. What you don't do is set up countless NGO's and narratives that champion the notion that people have the right to act like this forever and this behaviour is now in the realm of being considered normal. That is actual abuse.

And also paint this group as victimless agents that are put down upon by the rest of society,

deandean

And the taxpayer has payed for this useless report?
Anyone who doesn't keep their house and their site clean, will end up with rubbish piled around them and a rodent problem.
Next this report will be saying that the taxpayer should fund for an agency to come and wipe their asses because they can't do it themselves.
It falls on every member of society to keep their patch clean.

lazygal

When I was in transition year in school we went to Pavee Point to have a chat with Traveller girls the same age. We were 16/17. They were married or about to get married. The married ones all had children. They're probably grandparents now. They had no hope and no expectations of any other sort of life. That was 20+ years ago. I have no idea how their lives can be improved when they don't seem to want the sort of lives that are better than the status quo they grew up with. There have been reports on living conditions in the community since at least the 1960s. What does the community want? State halting sites that are essentially fiefdoms for the families that dominate them?

whisky_galore

lazygal wrote: »

When I was in transition year in school we went to Pavee Point to have a chat with Traveller girls the same age. We were 16/17. They were married or about to get married. The married ones all had children. They're probably grandparents now. They had no hope and no expectations of any other sort of life. That was 20+ years ago. I have no idea how their lives can be improved when they don't seem to want the sort of lives that are better than the status quo they grew up with. There have been reports on living conditions in the community since at least the 1960s. What does the community want? State halting sites that are essentially fiefdoms for the families that dominate them?

This.
And a free 24hr refuse collecting service.

Education is the only way out but the older ones will drag them back into the old ways. If they stayed in school and were educated, the whole degraded subculture would collapse.

Mad_maxx

once you make the sacred cow list of progressives , you are provided with a responsibility free existence , nothing is ever expected of you ( not even avoiding living like a pig ) and anything you do wrong is not your fault but the fault of society

its an insidious form of indulgence and travellers themselves dont benefit either

Galwayguy35

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the whole argument of 'personal responsibility' is actually based on ridiculing and shaming, it doesnt work, certainly with the complexities of social issues, theres layers and layers of complexity in regards traveling communities

Not really.

Be grateful for the living accommodation they are getting for free and take pride in the area around it by keeping it neat and tidy.

Pay to have their rubbish collected on a weekly basis like they rest of us in society are somehow able to manage to do and as happens from time to time if things need to be dumped organise a skip for it.

A tidy area will have a lot less rats and if they are still a few around deal with it like everyone else does on their property.

Until they stop relying on the Council/State to spoonfeed them and deal with day to day problems like the rest of us nothing will change.

Arealred

The headline should not be 'Deplorable conditions at Halting Site' it should read 'Halting Site Caretaker intimidated and prevented from doing essential work at Cork halting site'.

Enda Kenny has a lot to answer for. It's easy not care when thousand of euros is spent cleaning up your mess one week and when you throw your rubbish around again next week it will be cleaned up for you again. And the poor caretaker you can be sure is trying to pay his rent and keep his clapped out old car going whilst these guys are drawing the dole and driving in expensive vans and cars.

whisky_galore

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Not really.

Be grateful for the living accommodation they are getting for free and take pride in the area around it by keeping it neat and tidy.

I have seen some well kept ones but by and large if you are transient and have no roots or no stake in the area you are less likely to give a sh1t what it looks like.

lazygal

whisky_galore wrote: »

I have seen some well kept ones but by and large if you are transient and have no roots or no stake in the area you are less likely to give a sh1t what it looks like.

Plenty of people live in transient settings in the private rental market and don't need the council to spend tens of thousands cleaning up after them.

Mad_maxx

Arealred wrote: »

The headline should not be 'Deplorable conditions at Halting Site' it should read 'Halting Site Caretaker intimidated and prevented from doing essential work at Cork halting site'.

Enda Kenny has a lot to answer for. It's easy not care when thousand of euros is spent cleaning up your mess one week and when you throw your rubbish around again next week it will be cleaned up for you again. And the poor caretaker you can be sure is trying to pay his rent and keep his clapped out old car going whilst these guys are drawing the dole and driving in expensive vans and cars.

Enda Kenny threw a bone to the media and activist class who were on governments back about one of their pet projects, he had no personal interest in doing so

Purple is a Fruit

Wanderer78 wrote: »

oh theres no question, theyre causing the bulk of their own issues, but does sitting on the internets, pointing the finger, ridiculing them and shaming them actually do anything?

A narrative of "travellers' problems aren't their fault but "society's"" is being pushed. People are simply disputing this with facts. If you want to view citing facts as ridiculing and shaming, that's your prerogative.

It's truly shocking that people who are responsible for their own mess are deluded enough to distance themselves from their own community's behaviour and blame it on the government. Not all travellers do though, and it's certainly not just travellers who fight for fantasy to be deemed reality - or else.

lazygal

It is infantalising to state that society is responsible and travellers have no agency. They do. I've heard more from Traveller spokespersons about this report than from "society". I don't want children living in squalor but I am a law abiding citizen and my taxes fund things like cleaning up halting sites both legal and illegal. If a certain cohort don't want to treat their state provided housing with respect and want instead to blame "society" for their choices that's just pathetic carry on.

FishOnABike

Kalimah wrote: »

Not Nutgrove- it’s Stocking Avenue but Nutgrove is exactly the same. I pass it regularly.

Is there some common denominator here I'm missing?

Kalimah

Both traveller sites- seven or eight detached houses on each site.

Dickie10

theres evidence that a lot of the poor cottiers and landless labour in the famine acted much in same way as todays travellers, no work ethic, lazy and devoid of personal and parental responsibility , if thats the case maybe, just maybe there would be a lot more of us who may have acted much like Trevelyan did in 1847 and see it as no harm tht there be a natural cull of this cohort of the population.

MrMusician18

Dickie10 wrote: »

theres evidence that a lot of the poor cottiers and landless labour in the famine acted much in same way as todays travellers, no work ethic, lazy and devoid of personal and parental responsibility , if thats the case maybe, just maybe there would be a lot more of us who may have acted much like Trevelyan did in 1847 and see it as no harm tht there be a natural cull of this cohort of the population.

I'm reasonably sure the cottiers didn't go around collecting waste for burning at their encampments.

lazygal

Dickie10 wrote: »

theres evidence that a lot of the poor cottiers and landless labour in the famine acted much in same way as todays travellers, no work ethic, lazy and devoid of personal and parental responsibility , if thats the case maybe, just maybe there would be a lot more of us who may have acted much like Trevelyan did in 1847 and see it as no harm tht there be a natural cull of this cohort of the population.

There are substantial state provided safety nets in 2021 and have been for years in terms of halting site provision. This is a false comparison.

buried

Dickie10 wrote: »

theres evidence that a lot of the poor cottiers and landless labour in the famine acted much in same way as todays travellers, no work ethic, lazy and devoid of personal and parental responsibility , if thats the case maybe, just maybe there would be a lot more of us who may have acted much like Trevelyan did in 1847 and see it as no harm tht there be a natural cull of this cohort of the population.

You are not far wrong in that wipeout assessment. Because, those who controlled the living situations for centuries previous to 1847 that allowed that genocidal situation to occur are the same sort of corporate hoorbags who have allowed the traveller people to be solely dependent on this same sort of basic handout mentality, until the corporates then cut it off and tried to wipe the dependent people out. Real traveller organisations would want to wake the f**K up if they truly believe that they stand for their community. Killing you with 'kindness' is what I actually see happening here, again.

Gunmonkey

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The whole argument of 'personal responsibility' is not about shaming. It's about countering a bizarre narrative that's taken hold in media, NGO and political circles that we (the rest of society) are to blame for this. We are not, and neither are local authorities.

If travellers bring rubbish onto their site and to add insult intimidate council workers from cleaning up their mess then they are actually responsible.

It wasnt just that. The RTE report had pics and elements about how bad the trailers were, that there was mould and a pic of someone lifting a carpet and dirt and such beneath it. This wear and tear was higlighted and leveled at the LA/ the Gov/ the "Settled" community/ TUSLA, whoever they wanted....even though the caravans/trailers would be the property of the Travellers themselves and so their responsibility, but these reports make it out like anyone but them should be held accountable for the upkeep of their own property.

As for the kids showing up to school dirty and being ridiculed by the other kids...if its because they are walking through a patch of wet/muddy land just buy em some wellies! pop em on for the walk to school and change to their shoes when they get their, have seen my nieces do it multiple times (more so they could jump in the puddles on the way to school). A simple as **** solution but no....we have to now endure a Gov report on this and how "the state has failed the kids" because some families would rather allow their kids to be "ridiculed" or whatever they claim than spend less than a pack of smokes on solving it.

Of course the cap on the end of all the reports illuminates purely why the residents of the site are letting this happening....from TheJournal -

Housing applications were incomplete or not processed, which meant that some families may have missed out on securing a home or were not moved up the list.

The local authority “failed to account for the disadvantages experienced by Travellers in effectively securing accommodation and they did not meet their obligations in relation to the Traveller Accommodation Programme (TAP)”

The OCO has made a series of recommendations following the report, including that the the housing applications complaints made by the 11 families involved be reviewed without delay..

And now Wanderer will be along to tell me there are societal issues or I'm victim blaming or some other nonsense :rolleyes:

Thelonious Monk

I think the only way this is going is that they'll have to set up halting sites around Ireland with good facilities, and councils will have to keep them clean and collect rubbish daily. They'll also need teams on call to attend sites where they randomly set up to clean up and bring them whatever they need.
I mean it sounds ridiculous but this seems to be the only way it can go at this stage for the various parties involved to be happy.