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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

RyanthePirate

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

Mod:

I have updated the OP of this thread with a list of threadbanned users, I would advise posters to check on this before posting in the thread again or a forum sanction will be imposed for breaching same.

If you want to discuss your threadban feel free to PM the banning mod (or myself if you can't remember who that is and I'll point you in the right direction).

Threadbanned Users:
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Happydays2020

Swindled wrote: »

Who are the racist posters, please name them ?

Name ANY country where "multiculraism" has worked ?

Does Ireland work now? Did it work in the 1980s and 1990s when it was far less multicultural?

Swindled

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Does Ireland work now? Did it work in the 1980s and 1990s when it was far less multicultural?

In comparison to where ?
When you actually answer the two questions asked and the one above, I'll be happy to oblige in kind.

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

I believe that posters issues with immigrants to this country are as a result of government policies, apart from those posters who are actually just racist. Which of course, is not everybody, but there are some.

Government policies? Which ones? The problem we have there is that multiculturalism has some serious social issues and faultlines in every western nation that has it in place. These are generational issues too and the same demographics are negatively affected by them. So across all those nations and across many decades and across different governments and government policies and leanings we observe remarkably similar problems and outcomes.

This strongly suggests that a) some aspects of multiculturalism clearly do not work and b) that the overall western attitudes and response to it clearly doesn't work either and no amount of happy clappy government campaigns seem to make a damned bit of difference.

And again Ireland will be magically different in this. Except it's already not and in a remarkably short period of time. We already have enclaves forming, we already have ethnic flashpoints forming and going by rabble rousers like Ebun Joseph it's worse it's getting and we're all racists to some degree. As Crooked cockney villain noted a fair few in the media would paint us as wearing sheets and pointy hats and after the George Nkencho killing that revved right up with the usual handwringers, vested interests and rabble rousers. Many of them living on the state's coffers.

I will bet now that in twenty years time we'll have more of the same and the same outcomes in urban areas that have blighted the rest of the European continent.

And if course, immigrants are individuals and just like Irish people, some are work orientated and wish for a better life, and some are criminals and some are lazy.

Well the simplest way to reduce the number of the latter is to have stringent immigration policies, which we pretty much do as far as people from outside the EU legally coming here and staying goes, and the deportation/refusal at entry of those that come or stay here illegally, which we pretty much don't. Indeed our justice minister is seeking to reward such criminality with the path to Irish citizenship washing away the sins of illegal immigration and tax evasion etc while another minister is eager to get the newly arrived onto the social housing list within months and ahead of native Irish. In the middle of a housing crisis. You couldn't make this insanity up, but here we have it as government policy and with no wider debate about it and no alternative voices to be heard in the mainstream, or alternatives to vite for(that aren't four insane morons in a function room in a Galway hotel).

Happydays2020

Swindled wrote: »

When you actually answer the two questions asked, I'll be happy to oblige in kind.

Well Ireland has been multicultural for centuries and was built on multiculturalism. Natives, Celts, Vikings, Normans. Some more is grand.

Swindled

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Well Ireland has been multicultural for centuries and was built on multiculturalism. Natives, Celts, Vikings, Normans. Some more is grand.

You mean after invasions and after centuries conflict and death.
And the English and the plantations from Scotland.
And yet the Irish fought it all for centuries, triumphed, and founded their own independent country
So more of that is grand ?

So when are you going to answer the other questions asked ?

Wibbs

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Does Ireland work now? Did it work in the 1980s and 1990s when it was far less multicultural?

It was working pretty well in the 1990's. Indeed the very reason we got our first influx of extra EU migration was because it was working. There were remarkably few "refugees" and "asylum seekers" coming here in the doldrums of the 1980's or before the birthright loophole post the GFA. I actually knew a family of refugees who came here in the late 70's. They were an extreme rarity and it seems even rarer for being genuine. There were some folks from the Middle East coming here for educational reasons in the 80's but that was about it. Come the Celtic Tiger, come the opportunistic migrations. If we look farther afield the nations in the Far East that are well on the up are less multicultural than Ireland or Europe and more "nationalist" and less open to migration.

Well Ireland has been multicultural for centuries and was built on multiculturalism. Natives, Celts, Vikings, Normans. Some more is grand.

This is a current nonsense, though oft repeated in support of this politic it remains a nonsense.

"Celts" never came here in any numbers, the Vikings, Normans and English came here as invaders and conquerors that led to centuries of oppression for the native Irish, the echoes of which are still in play in the north of this divided island, even the fact we're having this discussion as Bearla, or have you blithely decided to forget your history lessons in school? That's the "multiculturalism" you want to elevate? And while there was some admixture with the Viking/Normans, the genetics of Ireland remained remarkably stable and "local" right down to today. The fact is that Ireland was and is one of the least "multicultural" native populations in Europe and no amount of current right on revisionism is going to change that fact.

Lemon Davis lll

TomTomTim wrote: »

Complete vague nonsense that ascribes no value to anything. It's the kind of guff I'd expect from an aspiring philosophy student.

One eyed Jack-ism, if you will

Mike Murdock

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

say black lives matter....

then say white lives matter, and see what happens

Hell, just say "All Lives Matter" and you'll be "cancelled".

Wibbs

Whatever about how it can be open to hijack I have no issue with Black Lives Matter as a statement. It's pretty bloody evident that in places like the US they don't matter as much as White lives. Martin Luther King may have had a dream, but for a large proportion of the African American population that's all it was and for me yet another example of how multiculturalism doesn't work and works less the more the obvious the difference is to the overarching culture. Though to be fair I'd be more of supporter of Malcolm X's take on things.

Justin Credible Darts

Wibbs wrote: »

Whatever about how it can be open to hijack I have no issue with Black Lives Matter as a statement. It's pretty bloody evident that in places like the US they don't matter as much as White lives. Martin Luther King may have had a dream, but for a large proportion of the African American population that's all it was and for me yet another example of how multiculturalism doesn't work and works less the more the obvious the difference is to the overarching culture. Though to be fair I'd be more of supporter of Malcolm X's take on things.

I would venture to say hispanics have it as bad if not worse.
In fact they do more cheap labour than black people.

Yet when one of them gets shot, you do not see the hispanic community "protest" like the black community....odd that.

amazing how protests often result in flat screen televisions going missing from stores....guess they all want to watch the news better.

The arab community that probably get the worst abuse of the entire lot, dont riot..I mean protest either...odd that too.

Wibbs

America is, or sees itself as a White nation and culture, the rest are outside that box to some degree or other and some get it worse than others. It's also ground zero for the victimhood olympics. It's also changing in demographics. IIRC it was in 2019 where for the first time non White American births became the slight majority. As "melting pots" go it's not the poster boy for the success of them.

enricoh

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Yep. Narrow minded is a nice way to put it.

Immigrants will add value. They will not drain the economy. No one wants to come here to rely on social housing and the dole.

God bless the naivety, No wonder phone and online scammers clean up in Ireland!! Yeah, a bit of whiplash helps pay for the hollyers home!

Justin Credible Darts

Wibbs wrote: »

America is, or sees itself as a White nation and culture, the rest are outside that box to some degree or other and some get it worse than others. It's also ground zero for the victimhood olympics. It's also changing in demographics. IIRC it was in 2019 where for the first time non White American births became the slight majority. As "melting pots" go it's not the poster boy for the success of them.

and therein lies the problems.
We see how this multiculturalism is not working in countries like Britain germany USA etc, and instead of learning from this, this retarded government just ignores that completely and plods headlong into the same situation.

Backed by people so out of touch with reality its actually quite disturbing.

Happydays2020

enricoh wrote: »

God bless the naivety, No wonder phone and online scammers clean up in Ireland!! Yeah, a bit of whiplash helps pay for the hollyers home!

Naive? Not a chance.

Swindled

Wibbs wrote: »

Martin Luther King may have had a dream, but for a large proportion of the African American population that's all it was and for me yet another example of how multiculturalism doesn't work and works less the more the obvious the difference is to the overarching culture. Though to be fair I'd be more of supporter of Malcolm X's take on things.

MLK's actual dream was not judging someone on the colour of their skin, or their ethnicity, but the content of their character. Now more than ever in the declining US and the Europe that likes to copy the US and import and ape its failing politics and culture, is the mantra that people should in fact be judged on their skin colour and ethnicity, not the content of their character. Hence in Ireland "white" ethnically Irish = bad, any other skin tone / ethnicity = good.

gw80

Swindled wrote: »

MLK's actual dream was not judging someone on the colour of their skin, or their ethnicity, but the content of their character. Now more than ever in the declining US and the Europe that likes to copy the US and import and ape its failing politics and culture, is the mantra that people should in fact be judged on their skin colour and ethnicity, not the content of their character. Hence in Ireland "white" ethnically Irish = bad, any other skin tone / ethnicity = good.

This is true,as can be seen with the recent drive for apprentices, everyone gets a leg up except if you are native irish,and white.

TomTomTim

Swindled wrote: »

MLK's actual dream was not judging someone on the colour of their skin, or their ethnicity, but the content of their character. Now more than ever in the declining US and the Europe that likes to copy the US and import and ape its failing politics and culture, is the mantra that people should in fact be judged on their skin colour and ethnicity, not the content of their character. Hence in Ireland "white" ethnically Irish = bad, any other skin tone / ethnicity = good.

There was a time when this would of been considered a great simplification, but not anymore. It really is that simple for most of them. All actions must be judged based on the racial demographic that commits said action. No objective standards exist in their heads, which is ironically a betrayal of nature of genuine equality.

[Deleted User]

TomTomTim wrote: »

There was a time when this would of been considered a great simplification, but not anymore. It really is that simple for most of them. All actions must be judged based on the racial demographic that commits said action. No objective standards exist in their heads, which is ironically a betrayal of nature of genuine equality.

Yes, well... equality isn't the desired result.

It's the same with Feminism, or any other movement related to "rights". The victim status must always be retained, also putting forward the potential of superiority while pointing out the negatives/inferiority of the opposing group. Race activists focus on race as being ultimately important, mouthing soundbites about equality, while doing everything in their power to make race the most important distinction between people. Gender activists do the same.. pretty much all activism operates on the same principles.

If equality was to happen, then they wouldn't be able to complain about anything, nor gain that emotional burst of righteousness by defending the constructed underdog, and showing it to the "ists".

Nah. We're moving further and further away from actual equality...

irishproduce

Anyone know if there were any further statements or reports such as the one issued by the Minister for Justice back in 2005, below?

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/inis/pages/pr07000171

https://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0518/63283-asylum/

I had a discussion with someone over the weekend, who refused to believe there are high numbers of bogus applicants tying up the system but wondered if there are any more recent factual reports or statements on the area?

[Deleted User]

irishproduce wrote: »

Anyone know if there were any further statements or reports such as the one issued by the Minister for Justice back in 2005, below?

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/inis/pages/pr07000171

https://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0518/63283-asylum/

I had a discussion with someone over the weekend, who refused to believe there are high numbers of bogus applicants tying up the system but wondered if there are any more recent factual reports or statements on the area?

There is a huge amount of information out there but to be honest it is very hard to get accurate figures. Depending on the source the figures can often seem to contradict each other. Also a lot of the figures will answer one particular thing but not another connected issue so you are essentially left with data with holes throughout it.

On the whole asylum thing, In 2020 during the pandemic over 415,000 people sought asylum in the EU. The majority get asylum or permission to stay but again it's very hard to put an exact figure on it because you have acceptance by first instance then second instance then individual countries making further decisions. The figure of 415,000+ obviously doesn't count all those who enter the EU every year and don't apply for asylum but rather disappear into the background.

The entire system EU wide is broken and like a sieve.

twinytwo

bubblypop wrote: »

Not deflecting anything.
I'm just saying we have no idea who lives in this country of EU origin, none.
I don't understand why you would have an issue with non EU immigrants, who are limited and known, and no issue with EU citizens, who are not known and not limited by numbers and can claim all the benefits they want.

You cannot claim we have an issue with 'mass immigration ' of non EU, which we don't, but are perfectly ok with immigration of any amount of EU citizens.
Double standards?

Lord above, you are either seriously deluded or delibertly ignorant... Im not sure which is worse.

Swindled

twinytwo wrote: »

Lord above, you are either seriously deluded or delibertly ignorant... Im not sure which is worse.

I actually feel sorry for them, there's lots out there like that, told what to think, what opinion to have, and taught never to question or critically examine anything the media/parties tell them.

Justin Credible Darts

bubblypop wrote: »

Not totally true of me anyway, Wibbs, I do indeed judge things. I can be very judgy!
But I tend to judge behaviour rather then cultures or people. So, individual people rather then a collective.
I believe in the law. I believe in right and wrong. And I believe the world and her problems are not black & white, but varying shades of grey.

I believe that posters issues with immigrants to this country are as a result of government policies, apart from those posters who are actually just racist. Which of course, is not everybody, but there are some.

And if course, immigrants are individuals and just like Irish people, some are work orientated and wish for a better life, and some are criminals and some are lazy.

you believe that some posters on here are racist ?

This is typical of your mindset, just throw out a blanket accusation thinking you wont be called on it.
Who are these racist posters ?....if you believe what you type and are a person of conviction you will name these posters.

I believe there are none and this is just another ploy by people when their arguments have been tore to shreds and have no other recourse.
You wont name then because they dont exist.

You think bandying about the name and making accusations will shut down people, but you are being called out to back up this claim with the names of these posters you claim are racist.

Where is your proof ?
Where is you evidence to back up this ridiculous claim ?

Wibbs

The lack of censure when someone is calling another poster a racist is interesting alright and we have seen many many examples of it. Though to be fair to the mods and moderation, of the ban and cards handed out on this very thread, the vast majority of them have been handed out to posters on the pro multicultural side. If you added in the accusations of racism you'd have few of them left standing. And as ever, report such posts. I'd bet that they rarely are. I've seen this in forums I've modded in the past. Posters complain that [insert issue here] gets a free ride, yet I saw few if any reported posts.

Mike Murdock wrote: »

The last, desperate act of those that have lost the argument.

That's been by far the biggest eye opener for me on this thread; I expected a much more robust and cogent defence of the politic, but it's been the quite remarkable lack of argument points in favour of multiculturalism that surprised me. They have boiled down to exoticism for its own sake, charity and the Irish were immigrants too. Add in some inaccurate revisionism about how Ireland was always multicultural and that's pretty much it. What has also surprised is how little it appears the subject and politic has been thought about by those that hold it as such a positive. It's been just taken as an Accepted Truth it seems, with little or no enquiry into it. Taken on faith essentially.

Now I get why it might be for some. To take the as usual simplistic American "right/left" labels I have found those who are more left tend to be more kind, more about society and more open, but more naive, the more right tend to be less kind, more selfish, more about the individual, less open to the new, but more realistic. Both are obsessed with "race", the more exotic the better, just obsessed in a different way*. So the "left" are going to more drawn to the exotic and charity and diversity isn't it just great without really questioning it too deeply.

*On the Left of things if one were to look at NGO media, some government missive and latterly even mainstream advertising, one would swear that Ireland has a huge percentage of Black and dark skinned people living here and half of them, the men anyway, appear to be in multiracial couples. If one looks at the Right of things, immigrants and "New Irish" are equally seen as shorthand for Black and dark skinned people. Neither are close to an accurate reflection of the makeup of actual non native Irish people living here. There are around 20-25000 Black Africans living here, but around 400,000 White Europeans living here. Around 16 times the number. Hell, alone there are more Lithuanians than Africans in Ireland. The vast majority of the New Irish are White Europeans.

Ten of Swords

Thread has gone off topic

If you want to discuss moderation the Help Desk forum is the place to do so, not this thread

Justin Credible Darts

this thread is a complete joke, if we dare to question anything we are liable to be referred to as racists...this is what this thread has descended to.
god forbid we question that as well

Swindled

Wibbs wrote: »

*On the Left of things if one were to look at NGO media, some government missive and latterly even mainstream advertising, one would swear that Ireland has a huge percentage of Black and dark skinned people living here and half of them, the men anyway, appear to be in multiracial couples. If one looks at the Right of things, immigrants and "New Irish" are equally seen as shorthand for Black and dark skinned people. Neither are close to an accurate reflection of the makeup of actual non native Irish people living here. There are around 20-25000 Black Africans living here, but around 400,000 White Europeans living here. Around 16 times the number. Hell, alone there are more Lithuanians than Africans in Ireland. The vast majority of the New Irish are White Europeans.

So if we desperately need mass immigration into this country (something I don't believe we do if current Irish birth rates, among the highest in Europe, remain stable / increased, and we done more to help our young people, many of whom have to emigrate and not by choice )

Let's pretend we do, why the big push for mass immigration from outside the EU ? Are Eastern Europeans now not good enough ? (i.e. Black Enough / Muslim enough / LGBT+ enough ), what's the end goal, enclaves like Brixtons ? Rochdales ? (Balbriggan being deemed the "template for Ireland" by likes of Pat Kenny), and Gaeltacht areas as a reservation for the native Irish ?

Chips Lovell

There isn't a push for mass immigration from outside the EU. As Wibbs pointed out, the vast majority of immigration is from EU countries.

It's pretty hard to get a visa for someone from outside the EU and anyone who gets here outside of the work visa regime, it's very much despite of not because Irish/EU immigration policy.

Swindled

Chips Lovell wrote: »

It's pretty hard to get a visa for someone from outside the EU and anyone who gets here outside of the work visa regime, it's very much despite of not because Irish/EU immigration policy.

It is like feck, I've seen employers hand them out like snuff at a wake if they get the smell of cheap exploitable labour, and 20,000 illegals were rubber stamped this year alone, no questions asked, no background checks done. No need of Visa's.

[Deleted User]

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

this thread is a complete joke, if we dare to question anything we are liable to be referred to as racists...this is what this thread has descended to.
god forbid we question that as well

Just call out those who do it. Demand specifics. They'll drop it, deflect, and then disappear for a few pages. There's no value in complaining about this, so it's best to let it go. For my own part, I've learned it's better to /ignore certain posters.

(no, mods I'm neither backseating nor directing this at anyone in particular)

The thread is here for those of us who want to discuss multiculturalism. That's enough.