Were the early 90's the last "real" Ireland

Das Reich wrote: »

Before arriving in Ireland 15 years ago I used to think my country was very americanized. Ireland was long gone and unfortunately many other countries are becoming similar losing their language and culture.

Not sure I agree with this. I spend a lot of time in the US with work. Ireland and Irish people are distinctly different. Sure, there is a common language and consumerism. However, unique cultural elements like the GAA and Irish dancing are in rude good health.

The language is a different story. Personally, I’d love to see Ireland as a truly bi-lingual society with people equally proficient in English and Irish. The gaelscoil movement has gained traction, churning out thousands of kids every year with decent levels of Irish. I hope this movement continues to gain ground and revitalize the language.

I think you’ve mentioned before that you’re Brazilian? Despite the fact that you guys speak Portuguese, I’ve always felt that Brazilians are far closer personality-wise to Americans than Irish people. Hope you don’t mind me saying this, but my experience of Brazilians is that they are open, talkative, but quite superficial. This is pretty close to the personality type of many Americans.

Pawwed Rig

Hamachi wrote: »

Not sure I agree with this. I spend a lot of time in the US with work. Ireland and Irish people are distinctly different. Sure, there is a common language and consumerism. However, unique cultural elements like the GAA and Irish dancing are in rude good health.
.

Irish dancing has become more like the US child beauty pageants rather than an actual test of skill like when I was young. When you see girls wearing make up and wigs it is a real turn off. My daughter won't be going near it.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Irish dancing has become more like the US child beauty pageants rather than an actual test of skill like when I was young. When you see girls wearing make up and wigs it is a real turn off. My daughter won't be going near it.

That’s your decision. Many parents do not agree.

If my daughter has any interest, I’ll certainly encourage her to participate. It’s also great to see young boys and men getting involved. The all male group ‘Cairde’ have been going down a treat on social media and with international audiences.

Great to see the continued appreciation for a unique aspect of Irish culture.

Gradius

It's possible to objectively compare different time periods, it doesn't have to be rose-tinted. I can appreciate things from time periods I never experienced.

Someone mentioned "hopeful", and that's something that seems sorely lacking these days. It seemed as though opportunity was ahead of the country in the 90's, despite all the drawbacks. Possibilities. Not related to age at all, just an overall feeling of upward trajectory across the board.

Now there appears to be a deep negative vibe about the place as to the future and where we're heading, whether you're talking to a teenager or an old fart.

Oh well!

RandomViewer

I've seen 5 decades,
70s happened, I was a child ,didnt really notice
80s happened, I was a teenager, lots of bad stuff, Thatcher, Falklands, Hunger strikes ,Chernobyl, mass unemployment and emigration,
90s happened, I was in my twenties, had job, car ,money in my pocket, lot less misery in the country,
00-10s happened , I'm old, lots of good stuff at the start, 08-12 ,very bad times, worst times I'd ever had, been better since but suspect things are going to go downwards in the next few years

whisky_galore wrote: »

What culture?
The living in thatched cottages and riding a donkey to Mass culture? Because nobody wants to do that anymore, the country isn't a theme park for tourists.

The GAA are doing better than most sporting organisations and the language is being propped up artificially because nobody wants to speak that either. And you can't cajole or force people to speak Irish if they have no use for it.

That's a heck of a lot of putting words in their mouth - seems to be a thing on this thread.

Now now, don't be dishonest - numerous people do want to speak Irish, but nobody suggested anything about cajoling or forcing people to.

whisky_galore

Purple is a Fruit wrote: »

That's a heck of a lot of putting words in their mouth - seems to be a thing on this thread.

Now now, don't be dishonest - numerous people do want to speak Irish, but nobody suggested anything about cajoling or forcing people to.

Ah shur I'd love to speak it but *insert excuse here*

Pawwed Rig

Hamachi wrote: »

That’s your decision. Many parents do not agree.

If my daughter has any interest, I’ll certainly encourage her to participate. It’s also great to see young boys and men getting involved. The all male group ‘Cairde’ have been going down a treat on social media and with international audiences.

Great to see the continued appreciation for a unique aspect of Irish culture.

When you are being beaten because your opponent is wearing a wig and make up rather than because they are a better dancer then that it not for my family. I am not into sexualising my children.
If they got rid of the pageant element I would have no problem getting into it. I did it when I was young.

Just because many parents do not agree does not make it right. Many US parents put their children into beauty pageants. I wouldn't. I personally think it should be illegal to sexualise young girls like that.

crooked cockney villain

I find it a bit strange that we have sort of frozen in time. As in, if you were to walk around Dublin in 1975 vs 1995 the changes would be staggering. Hairstyles, cars designs, clothes, the city had to my knowledge a bit of a tired, run down vibe to it.

Yet if you were to walk around Dublin in 2000 vs now, 21 years later, would it really look much different? Clothes are pretty much the same (albeit more people wearing high end brands, nobody in 2000 would dream of dropping 700 quid on a stupid Canada Goose body warmer), young lads today have different hairstyles might be another, but it ends there really. Aside from smartphones in people's hands, could you really see the difference? I was watching the X Files there the other week, from 1991 or so, and aside from the fact it wasn't high definition there's not much in it that you wouldn't think it was filmed last week, aside from the oversized mobile phones. Compare that to watching, say Only Fools and Horses from the 80's, the clothes, cars, the decor etc it really seems like a different era.

whisky_galore wrote: »

Ah shur I'd love to speak it but *insert excuse here*

Yep, there are those folk too!

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

I find it a bit strange that we have sort of frozen in time. As in, if you were to walk around Dublin in 1975 vs 1995 the changes would be staggering. Hairstyles, cars designs, clothes, the city had to my knowledge a bit of a tired, run down vibe to it.

Yet if you were to walk around Dublin in 2000 vs now, 21 years later, would it really look much different? Clothes are pretty much the same (albeit more people wearing high end brands, nobody in 2000 would dream of dropping 700 quid on a stupid Canada Goose body warmer), young lads today have different hairstyles might be another, but it ends there really. Aside from smartphones in people's hands, could you really see the difference? I was watching the X Files there the other week, from 1991 or so, and aside from the fact it wasn't high definition there's not much in it that you wouldn't think it was filmed last week, aside from the oversized mobile phones. Compare that to watching, say Only Fools and Horses from the 80's, the clothes, cars, the decor etc it really seems like a different era.

Totally. There have been drastic changes in technology obviously, political outlooks and quality of life... but when it comes to what you see and hear (clothes, design, music/musical subcultures) there's not much distinction. Like, different car designs used to be so distinctive - some iconic - now they're fairly uniform.

crooked cockney villain

Purple is a Fruit wrote: »

when it comes to what you see and hear (clothes, design, music/musical subcultures) .

Actually that is one that is different now. You don't see half as many goths/ rocker types as you did at the turn of the century. That subculture really seems to have disappeared.

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

...
Yet if you were to walk around Dublin in 2000 vs now, 21 years later, would it really look much different? Clothes are pretty much the same (albeit more people wearing high end brands, .....

Looks far more similar to other European cities now than it did back in 2000. Cafe culture, far more multicultural. More people on bikes, Far more image conscious, both in fashion but also fitness etc. The city itself has changed a lot, lots of different buildings.

Flinty997 wrote: »

Looks far more similar to other European cities now than it did back in 2000. Cafe culture, far more multicultural. More people on bikes, Far more image conscious, both in fashion but also fitness etc. The city itself has changed a lot, lots of different buildings.

Yes. There’s little enough to distinguish Dublin city center from peer cities in the UK and on the continent these days. I enjoyed the more rough-and-ready city back in the early 00s. Everybody seemed a lot more carefree and out to have fun.

These days, the city is populated by a substantial amount of poseurs droning on about coffee and wondering where to get the best avocado on toast. A pretty tedious, homogenized urban tribe.

RandomViewer

Hamachi wrote: »

Yes. There’s little enough to distinguish Dublin city center from peer cities in the UK and on the continent these days. I enjoyed the more rough-and-ready city back in the early 00s. Everybody seemed a lot more carefree and out to have fun.

These days, the city is populated by a substantial amount of poseurs droning on about coffee and wondering where to get the best avocado on toast. A pretty tedious, homogenized urban tribe.

Haven't been to city centre Dublin since 2018, was full of skangers off their faces holding empty coffee cups

Galwayguy35

Summer 1990 was good in fairness, great time to be alive.

RandomViewer wrote: »

Haven't been to city centre Dublin since 2018, was full of skangers off their faces holding empty coffee cups

Yeah, it’s pretty clear you know nothing about the place.

Das Reich

Hamachi wrote: »

I think you’ve mentioned before that you’re Brazilian? Despite the fact that you guys speak Portuguese, I’ve always felt that Brazilians are far closer personality-wise to Americans than Irish people. Hope you don’t mind me saying this, but my experience of Brazilians is that they are open, talkative, but quite superficial. This is pretty close to the personality type of many Americans.

Nearly nothing in common as we are Southern Europeans culturally. One example for that is that so many men are in jail for killing the wives after discovering an adultery, while in the USA this is more acceptable. Worse thing in Brazil is being called a "corno" (or "cornuto" in Italian) that mean a cuckold. All rest of Latin America have this kind of thing. But again, country got very americanized recently, but still less than Ireland.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo

shockframe

Early 90s was a bit grim.

Things improved big time in the mid 90s. Better TV/Music. GAA on the TV more. Better English Football and Champions League would soar. The 3D Era of gaming taking off with the Playstation. Internet not quite there but a welcome addition.

Wouldn't go down the 'better in my day' route. Pretty sure every teenager would say the same about their era.

Still great and not so great things about now. Same as it ever was.

Das Reich wrote: »

Nearly nothing in common as we are Southern Europeans culturally. One example for that is that so many men are in jail for killing the wives after discovering an adultery, while in the USA this is more acceptable. Worse thing in Brazil is being called a "corno" (or "cornuto" in Italian) that mean a cuckold. All rest of Latin America have this kind of thing. But again, country got very americanized recently, but still less than Ireland.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo

Fair enough. I’ll take your word for it.

I’m not sure the reaction to adultery is a great example of cultural differentiation though. It’s not exactly celebrated or deemed acceptable, regardless if you’re North American, Irish or from anywhere else.

Hamachi wrote: »

Yeah, it’s pretty clear you know nothing about the place.

I lived in Dublin in the mid 2000s. Loved it. My perception of it now though is that it's much rougher.

Das Reich wrote: »

Nearly nothing in common as we are Southern Europeans culturally. One example for that is that so many men are in jail for killing the wives after discovering an adultery, while in the USA this is more acceptable. Worse thing in Brazil is being called a "corno" (or "cornuto" in Italian) that mean a cuckold.

Ah here...

Purple is a Fruit wrote: »

I lived in Dublin in the mid 2000s. Loved it. My perception of it now though is that it's much rougher.

The Luas at least is a freak show. O'Connell Street and similar are line the seedier parts of some European cities. But with a lot less cops.

jj880

Late 90s for me. Turned 15 in 1996. First time in a night club after junior cert. The start of about 10 great years before social media and the "my house has gone up x amount in 6 months" tosser club was established.

orangerhyme

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

Actually that is one that is different now. You don't see half as many goths/ rocker types as you did at the turn of the century. That subculture really seems to have disappeared.

Good point.
I think youth subcultures have disappeared really.

I've spoken to people not that old that were mods/punks. Then you had grunge/rave. Skaterkids, goths, emos

crooked cockney villain

orangerhyme wrote: »

Good point.
I think youth subcultures have disappeared really.

I've spoken to people not that old that were mods/punks. Then you had grunge/rave. Skaterkids, goths, emos

I've watched that documentary on RTE My Tribe and the subcultures from days gone by strike you as oddballs.

I'm 36 and the only subculture I knew of was goths and rockers really. Were ravers really a subculture as such? From my experience most working class youth, myself included, were ravers to varying degrees of interest- subculture sort of implies outside the mainstream.

Funny thing I noticed in England was ravers are from every socioeconomic background. In Ireland, while there might be a handful from richer areas, the bulk were working class.

riclad

Ireland is a more diverse modern country since the 90s,
Since the 90s the power of the Church has faded away apart from the fact most schools are still owned by the church
Diverse means people from many country's are living here
Media has changed people have acess to hundreds of TV channels sky TV and the Internet
We don't seem to have Irish pop stars anymore
The 90s had Enya the corrs etc I think every one over 30 tends to think music, TV etc was better when I was 18 or 20
The 90s was the time of PlayStation or Xbox consoles becoming popular
Games started to have more realistic characters and 3d graphics
Games were longer and more complex with interesting story's
Ireland was a big market for ps2 eg no of consoles sold per 1000 population
I think the 90s was maybe the last decade before computers took over music
Eg most music is now made on pcs using software

Ubbquittious

orangerhyme wrote: »

Good point.
I think youth subcultures have disappeared really.

I've spoken to people not that old that were mods/punks. Then you had grunge/rave. Skaterkids, goths, emos

What do depressed kids do these days? Is there any outlet for them?

orangerhyme wrote: »

Good point.
I think youth subcultures have disappeared really.

I've spoken to people not that old that were mods/punks. Then you had grunge/rave. Skaterkids, goths, emos

Sub cultures these days are things like fitness & sports, DJ music, Rap, Gaming, social media influencers, vlogging, media creation, skating, etc.

Its hard to recognize them as the same, as its a different generation.