What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Mike Murdock wrote: »

Typical of Robbie.

You got nothing.

Hugs and kisses Mikey. Xxxxx

Mike Murdock

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Hugs and kisses Mikey. Xxxxx

Right back at ya.

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Yep. Narrow minded is a nice way to put it.

If you're so open minded can you give examples of the positives?

Immigrants will add value. They will not drain the economy. No one wants to come here to rely on social housing and the dole.

And yet as we've seen in other multicultural European nations with longer experience of this politic the same migrant demographics are more likely to be in need of social assistance, more likely to be in gaol and more likely to live in poverty. In Ireland today African origin people have on average much higher unemployment rates, lower educational status and are more likely to be living in social housing compared to native Irish or other demographics. Over 40 % of the African diaspora in Ireland are described as "economically inactive".

Swindled wrote: »

You mean like you, so "open minded" that it fell out and you have none of your own ?

Why are you not open minded to beautifully distinct, unique, native ethic cultures worldwide, instead of trying to shove it all in a blender ?

I am. I love travelling and visiting different places.
I have no issue with places that are not multicultural, not do I have any issues with places that are.
They are what they are.

gw80 wrote: »

I know and I agree with you but I would assume there would be some resentment from some quarters,

Perhaps, although I suspect that resentment (should it exist) would likely come from people who were in school during the recession. Older people would remember what Ireland was like when it was a relatively poor country, and have greater sympathy for those who had to leave.

Wibbs wrote: »

If you're so open minded can you give examples of the positives?
And yet as we've seen in other multicultural European nations with longer experience of this politic the same migrant demographics are more likely to be in need of social assistance, more likely to be in gaol and more likely to live in poverty. In Ireland today African origin people have on average much higher unemployment rates, lower educational status and are more likely to be living in social housing compared to native Irish or other demographics. Over 40 % of the African diaspora in Ireland are described as "economically inactive".

And who or what do you think is to blame for that?

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Hmm changing tack. Look I understand you probably didn't mean literally nobody. But that is what you said and that would be a lie. Vanishingly few implies more than none or nobody, right wibbs?

So in lieu of argument over a claim of "many posters" you run to pedantry? You like to claim lies in others but the truth and your position are uneasy bedfellows. Basically you're still hoping for your hail mary gotcha moment where you can recline in smug satisfaction that your position remains unassailable. God forbid you deal in good faith and factual debate. Is your position so delicate and undebatable that this is your only set of tactics? It seems it is.

Sadler Peak

bubblypop wrote: »

And who or what do you think is to blame for that?

Themselves.

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Yep. Narrow minded is a nice way to put it.

Actually, you'll find if you read a chunk of the thread, that it is the posters who are crictical of multiculturalism that are most willing to discuss the topic and think outside the box, providing a wide range of reasons for their opinions.

Whereas those who advocate for immigration, often misrepresent the posts of others, returning time and time again to the same points, without adequately defending those points.

Narrow minded? Err... The funny thing it's a lot like the accusations of racism.. the people most focused on race as being important, are the people who are [supposedly] fighting against racism.

Immigrants will add value. They will not drain the economy. No one wants to come here to rely on social housing and the dole.

That's a very broad statement. Care to back it up? (or will you join the ranks of others who make such statements, get frustrated when challenged, insult others and then, fade away into the background?)

Sadler Peak wrote: »

Themselves.

How?

Sadler Peak

bubblypop wrote: »

How?

Unlike houses and welfare a job is not given to you, you have to go out a get one.

Sadler Peak wrote: »

Unlike houses and welfare a job is not given to you, you have to go out a get one.

But why do you think it is African immigrants, as stated by wibbs, who have particular issues getting employment?

Wibbs wrote: »

So in lieu of argument over a claim of "many posters" you run to pedantry? You like to claim lies in others but the truth and your position are uneasy bedfellows. Basically you're still hoping for your hail mary gotcha moment where you can recline in smug satisfaction that your position remains unassailable. God forbid you deal in good faith and factual debate. Is your position so delicate and undebatable that this is your only set of tactics? It seems it is.

There's little point trying to pin him down. He posted something similar to me a few days back about the majority of posters on the thread, which shifted to some posters, and then.. deflected elsewhere. Rinse and repeat.

bubblypop wrote: »

And who or what do you think is to blame for that?

Racism and not getting the best of those demographics and easy access to one of the most generous social welfare systems on the planet. In the UK for example Nigerian folks do better on average across the board than Black Britons and White Britons for that matter. We got more chancers basically. Oh noes! How can you say that!! Well our own government departments say that as these days over 98% of Nigerians looking for asylum are refused. Apparently those who came here before more rigorous checks were different.

Worldwide in multicultural societies the same trends are in play. In very basic and broad terms East Asians cluster towards the top in the metrics, Europeans in the middle, Africans at the bottom. History, culture, racism, there are lots of complex reasons for it. Race isn't one of them, save for the racism aspect of course, though East Asians are hardly immune to it, or Indians for that matter. Sikhs from India on average fare better across the board than Hindus, who fare better than Muslims. All the same "race". In the US Scandinavians on average did better than the Irish, who did better than Italians on average. All the same "race".

There are very complex reasons for these different outcomes, but those reasons and outcomes seem remarkably intractable and are not going away any time soon and they will be repeated here. They already are and no amount of woolly headed naive if kind at heart thinking is likely to change it.

Wibbs wrote: »

There are very complex reasons for these different outcomes, but those reasons and outcomes seem remarkably intractable and are not going away any time soon and they will be repeated here. They already are and no amount of woolly headed naive if kind at heart thinking is likely to change it.

They will be repeated so long as people like you keep repeating such stories.
Non EU immigrants are given permission to live here by our authorities, all it takes is for the authorities to engage and encourage out immigrants. Not just dump them on the dole queues.

And racism, as you yourself admit, has a large part in keeping those African immigrants out of employment. Perhaps we should tackle that?

Wibbs wrote: »

So in lieu of argument over a claim of "many posters" you run to pedantry? You like to claim lies in others but the truth and your position are uneasy bedfellows. Basically you're still hoping for your hail mary gotcha moment where you can recline in smug satisfaction that your position remains unassailable. God forbid you deal in good faith and factual debate. Is your position so delicate and undebatable that this is your only set of tactics? It seems it is.

Is lying arguing in good faith?

bubblypop wrote: »

They will be repeated so long as people like you keep repeating such stories.

"People like me" just posting realities.

Non EU immigrants are given permission to live here by our authorities, all it takes is for the authorities to engage and encourage out immigrants. Not just dump them on the dole queues.

Why should we as a nation do so? We already have an underclass, why import the potential for more and one with different issues on top? Non EU immigrants come here all the time and legally with it into education and careers. They don't require "the authorities to engage and encourage" them out. Why deliberately import those that do?

And racism, as you yourself admit, has a large part in keeping those African immigrants out of employment. Perhaps we should tackle that?

Good luck with that. Nowhere seems to have squared that circle, even after decades of outreach and education, government campaigns etc. Indians and East Asians are not immune to racism and yet do better on average, even above background, as do educated Africans who come here legally for work or study.

As I say we have enough homegrown social problems and they don't come cheap socially or financially, so why import more? Some misplaced form of charity? Charity, as the saying goes, begins at home.

Wibbs wrote: »

. Why deliberately import those that do?
.

But we don't deliberately import persons who will be on welfare?

Wibbs wrote: »

"People like me" just posting realities.

Why should we as a nation do so? We already have an underclass, why import the potential for more and one with different issues on top? Non EU immigrants come here all the time and legally with it into education and careers. They don't require "the authorities to engage and encourage" them out. Why deliberately import those that do?
Good luck with that. Nowhere seems to have squared that circle, even after decades of outreach and education, government campaigns etc. Indians and East Asians are not immune to racism and yet do better on average, even above background, as do educated Africans who come here legally for work or study.

As I say we have enough homegrown social problems and they don't come cheap socially or financially, so why import more? Some misplaced form of charity? Charity, as the saying goes, begins at home.

This right here, if a political party approached uncontrolled reckless immigration that we are suffering from this point of view they would have my vote and over half a dozen within my family alone.

It's comedy gold watching Wibbs destroy the bleeding hearts/woke posters emotional arguments to this issue.

This thread could be closed at this stage, they don't have a leg to stand on.

Justin Credible Darts

decreds wrote: »

It's comedy gold watching Wibbs destroy the bleeding hearts/woke posters emotional arguments to this issue.

This thread could be closed at this stage, they don't have a leg to stand on.

never mind a leg, they have not got even the fact rights,.

they make a claim, based on nothing, then when asked to back up said claim they deflect.
They then change tactics and make outright ludicrous claims, and when they are dispelled,deflection mode comes to the fore again.

That is not counting the outright lies posted, things like "there are no illegal immigrants here"

or how illegals not paying tax, and depriving the Irish of jobs is a supposed benefit for us, despite our own irish people made to wait longer for housing.

some people seem almost ashamed to be irish and despise any semblance of irish culture or heritage.

Justin Credible Darts

bubblypop wrote: »

But we don't deliberately import persons who will be on welfare?

so why are the people coming here...illegally as well ?

They come because they can manipulate the system....simple as that, and people like seem to think that is fine

ThunbergsAreGo

bubblypop wrote: »

Do you see all the replies to you? All talk about low paid or unskilled migrants. Or illegal immigrants. Because that's what they automatically think when anyone mentions immigrants. In their heads, immigrants are a drain on our society. And they will try to justify that belief.
Even though you didn't mention anything about that.

Undocumented are not EU citizens, they are unlikely to be earning high wages. That is what was mentioned

bubblypop wrote: »

But we don't deliberately import persons who will be on welfare?

and yet we have imported demographics that are more likely to be in social housing and on social supports than the background population. Not just Africans either by the by, Georgians and Roma are others and last time I checked they were White.

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

They come because they can manipulate the system....simple as that, and people like seem to think that is fine

Well some of the naive social studies types certainly do as that link posted earlier on how illegal immigrants can game the system, but it's more complex than that too. The system itself is easy to manipulate. If you're coming from a non first world country and aren't exactly doing well there and there are near zero social supports beyond charity, rocking up to Ireland with one of the most generous social programmes in the world and easy access to it and a native population/media/government that are more on the back foot in telling you to head off like they might with a local, then it's no wonder people will often do what they do. Add in discrimination that most certainly exists towards non natives and Africans in particular and cultural differences* and here we are.

My first post on the thread wrote:

Because it doesn't work out too well long term and this is repeated in every European nation that tried it, or were forced into it by their history of colonialism. It doesn't work out too well for the immigrant population, even many generations in and unrest on the back of disenfranchisement is a given to kick off. It nearly always also depends on the demographics involved. Those who look the least like "natives" get the worst end of the deal.

In 20 years time, will that opinion be proven right or wrong? I suspect the former. If it's the latter Ireland will be the biggest outlier in the multicultural western world. And the biggest surprise.

*on the wiki page on Irish Nigerians it references a survey by yet another nose in the trough NGO the Immigrant council of Ireland that showed Nigerians are: strongly likely to feel that they do not have many values in common with Irish people Yeah, that's going to go down well in the future...

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

so why are the people coming here...illegally as well ?

They come because they can manipulate the system....simple as that, and people like seem to think that is fine

Well there are not coming here illegally to claim welfare, most don't even come illegally. They come through legal channels and they stay

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Undocumented are not EU citizens, they are unlikely to be earning high wages. That is what was mentioned

No. The poster mentioned immigrants. He never stated what type of immigrants. Everyone else just went off on their usual rants about illegals etc etc

decreds wrote: »

bleeding hearts/woke posters .

What bleeding hearts/woke posters?
What does woke actually mean?

We've had 10's of thousands of illegal immigrants arrive into the EU in just the last few weeks, into Spain, Italy, Cyprus and beyond. The EU declared the immigration crisis officially over a few years ago. They need to revisit their definition and deal with it whenever they feel like they have some time.

These people need to be deported back to where they come from, it's farcical seeing Asian's travel to Africa and then pop over to Europe. We are been taken for mugs by the politicians, people smugglers and the NGO's.

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

never mind a leg, they have not got even the fact rights,.

they make a claim, based on nothing, then when asked to back up said claim they deflect.
They then change tactics and make outright ludicrous claims, and when they are dispelled,deflection mode comes to the fore again.

That is not counting the outright lies posted, things like "there are no illegal immigrants here"

or how illegals not paying tax, and depriving the Irish of jobs is a supposed benefit for us, despite our own irish people made to wait longer for housing.

some people seem almost ashamed to be irish and despise any semblance of irish culture or heritage.

This.

I'd love to know the root cause, i'm leaning towards social engineering in western culture think feminism, wokeness etc. Our children are now being brain washed.

I like to picture these people as trolls living at home and under 18 but the sad reality is some of these people will somehow become politicians someday. While most will just claim benefits and blame society while self declaring as "artists" or some sh1te like that.