What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Tony EH wrote: »

On the other hand, the "looking after themselves" angle is equally a fantasy. The base fact is that illegal immigration into any country is a negative thing. And that negativity increases exponentially the more of it that occurs. An illegal immigrant cannot get a (legal) job, they cannot get the dole, they cannot get onto any welfare assistance at all as they cannot receive a PPS number.

I posted this before, but it's useful to have a look at it, just to be aware of what illegals can avail of.. and the advice being given out. (Also worth noting that the website is supported by a government grant)

Salvation Tambourine

Wibbs wrote: »

How can someone be on the books and paying taxes and also be illegal migrants without a PPS number? Genuine question.

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/12e6de-get-a-personal-public-service-pps-number/

The documents it seems needed are proof of identity, address and reason for PPSN. As far as I can see there is nothing about proof of valid Visa for non EU people.

Also, as another poster said you can get a PPSN while on a valid Visa and keep it once it expires. If we aren't checking if someone we've given a deportation notice to has actually left the country we've hardly got a system in place that invalidates a PPSN once documentation has expired.

Annasopra

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

It matters because firstly it allows greedy business owners who break the law and hire them and pay them off the books, thus meaning one less job for an irish person who should be paid the minimum wage at least.

If these illegals were not here, who knows maybe more jobs for the people paying actual tax.

But if a greedy business owner can get non Irish to work illegally then they'll probably find Irish to work illegally. Like why is the business owner suddenly going to start legitamately putting employees on their tax books?

Wibbs wrote: »

Remained illegally. Whether someone hops off a container in a port, or doesn't renew their visa they're both living in this country illegally. There are also support networks that enable this too.

Yep. Illegal.

Tony EH wrote: »

I cannot see a situation whereby a system such as a HIQA regulated care home facility can just hire non PPS illegals and not meet with any trouble.

Having had at one time direct experiences with HIQA regulated care homes on behalf of a relative I'd not be nearly so sure about that. They're stretched thin, blind eyes are common within the care home industry, if relatives don't kick up stink little gets done and only squeaky wheels get the grease and sometimes they have to get very squeaky before they get it. Yes HIQA are on the ball when investigations are triggered, but they have to be triggered in the first place. I wouldn't be particularly surprised at all that some illegal workers get through that pretty open net.

bubblypop wrote: »

I think it is estimated as being between 20,000 & 26,000. But they didn't slip through anything. They entered through legal channels and just remained.

Remained illegally. Whether someone hops off a container in a port, or doesn't renew their visa they're both living in this country illegally. There are also support networks that enable this too.

Tony EH wrote: »

Our 20,000 (I'd say it's more) is a relatively low number. But the fact that they were able to slip through is enough to allow pause for thought on how leaky our immigration system really was/is and the fact that there needs to be some tightening up so that it doesn't get any worse.

I think it is estimated as being between 20,000 & 26,000. But they didn't slip through anything. They entered through legal channels and just remained.

Tony EH wrote: »

You'll have to back that up.

While there's no doubt that illegal immigrants can get "work" of some sort, I cannot see a situation whereby a system such as a HIQA regulated care home facility can just hire non PPS illegals and not meet with any trouble.

If anything like that is actually occurring, it has to be on an extremely small scale and won't last too long.

I was surprised too, I have nothing official, cos I heard about it through work. As far as I know the hse were telling the illegal workers that their status would not be looked at when they take the vaccines, as there were worried about that.

Anyway, when I asked around, many people who are here on visas, are allowed to work, so they just stay when the visa expires. So, illegal but already working and paying taxes etc.
Very similar to the U.S. I guess.

Actually, when you think about it, it makes sense, they are overstating visas, so they just continue to work.

Tony EH

bubblypop wrote: »

Actually, there are a lot of staff in care homes who are on the books and are paying taxes who are illegal.

You'll have to back that up.

While there's no doubt that illegal immigrants can get "work" of some sort, I cannot see a situation whereby a system such as a HIQA regulated care home facility can just hire non PPS illegals and not meet with any trouble.

If anything like that is actually occurring, it has to be on an extremely small scale and won't last too long.

Tony EH

bubblypop wrote: »

Why do posters think that people who are living here, illegally, and are clearly looking after themselves are suddenly going to throw themselves into dole queues and housing queues?

Well, there's always a certain type that can only think in those terms. Everything for them is immigrant -> dole -> free stuff, blah blah blah. It's a complete waste of time even acknowledging people like that.

On the other hand, the "looking after themselves" angle is equally a fantasy. The base fact is that illegal immigration into any country is a negative thing. And that negativity increases exponentially the more of it that occurs. An illegal immigrant cannot get a (legal) job, they cannot get the dole, they cannot get onto any welfare assistance at all as they cannot receive a PPS number.

However, what they will do is pursue even more illegal routes while they continue to be "undocumented". So, that means operating completely in the shadows for everything. So they end up in the black economy for all their basic needs. That inevitably means that they are exploited by unscrupulous employers, live in terrible overcrowded conditions "provided" by our shitty landlord class, and can often resort to other crime as a means to make ends meet.

And the more of that that exists, the worse things become.

Our 20,000 (I'd say it's more) is a relatively low number. But the fact that they were able to slip through is enough to allow pause for thought on how leaky our immigration system really was/is and the fact that there needs to be some tightening up so that it doesn't get any worse.

bubblypop wrote: »

I know, I asked much the same, but it appears to be true.
I can't understand it, maybe they get them but then overstay the visas?
Guess it's more like the U.S. then we think.

have you any proof of this ?

LostinBlanch

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Oh Wibbs no Civil Servant has the power to override enacted legislation on a whim. That would be stupid!

I don't know why you asked a question of Wibbs in a reply to me? Anybody that can read can see he's well able to answer for himself.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

You know civil servants can't roll back an amendment to the constitution or enact legislation. You know this right?

Right, now read my full answer again, especially the bit in bold below about influencing the government to override one or either constitutional amendment.

Well, let's say a government of the day, or group of senior civil servants decided to roll back say the right to choose, or same sex marriage and influenced the government to over ride either of those constitutional amendments, would the reaction from certain quarters be so blase?

Once again the sentence is about influencing government behaviour to act in certain ways. Not deciding to do something and magically clicking their fingers to make it so. No matter how much you want to argue against that.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

The Dail can't roll back a constitutional amendment either. They can enact legislation which is not unconstitutional. And the state needs the government to be able to enact legislation otherwise what is its purpose and who would enact legislation.

Would you be happy if the Oireachtas enacted legislation banning same sex marriage or a Womans right to choose? I doubt it. For the record I wouldn't be either, and think most people feel that way.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

That's right Wibbs the elected government of Ireland is going to make decisions on how to run the state. Is that not the mandate of a Government?

Which page of the manifesto was the commitment to allow 20,000 fraudulent migrants access to our social welfare and housing? I can't seem to find it?

bubblypop wrote: »

I know, I asked much the same, but it appears to be true.

Hmmm.... I wonder can it be worked the other way? Have a PPS number, but pay no tax. Asking for a friend.

Wibbs wrote: »

How can someone be on the books and paying taxes and also be illegal migrants without a PPS number? Genuine question.

I know, I asked much the same, but it appears to be true.
I can't understand it, maybe they get them but then overstay the visas?
Guess it's more like the U.S. then we think.

bubblypop wrote: »

Actually, there are a lot of staff in care homes who are on the books and are paying taxes who are illegal.

How can someone be on the books and paying taxes and also be illegal migrants without a PPS number? Genuine question.

RulesOfNature

decreds wrote: »

Ireland has already been taken over thanks to the EU, it will be unrecognizable in a horrible way in as short as 20 years imo.

The men have become feminized and this is only getting once each generation, add to the mix that the media are doing everything they can to convince boys that masculinity is "toxic" and they should change gender, we will no doubt have the weakest "men" in history soon enough and therefore no one to defend us during this invasion/plantation.

I am actively planning to move my family out of here within 2-3 years. I may sound like a hypocrite in doing this but the difference is i will be moving my family to a country where hard work is appreciated and i will be doing so in a legal fashion vs illegally and claiming every benefit under the sun like an entitled leech (what is happening in Ireland right now).

F*ck off we're full.

decreds wrote: »

Ireland has already been taken over thanks to the EU, it will be unrecognizable in a horrible way in as short as 20 years imo.

The men have become feminized and this is only getting once each generation, add to the mix that the media are doing everything they can to convince boys that masculinity is "toxic" and they should change gender, we will no doubt have the weakest "men" in history soon enough and therefore no one to defend us during this invasion/plantation.

I am actively planning to move my family out of here within 2-3 years. I may sound like a hypocrite in doing this but the difference is i will be moving my family to a country where hard work is appreciated and i will be doing so in a legal fashion vs illegally and claiming every benefit under the sun like an entitled leech (what is happening in Ireland right now).

The end is nigh!

decreds

Ireland has already been taken over thanks to the EU, it will be unrecognizable in a horrible way in as short as 20 years imo.

The men have become feminized and this is only getting once each generation, add to the mix that the media are doing everything they can to convince boys that masculinity is "toxic" and they should change gender, we will no doubt have the weakest "men" in history soon enough and therefore no one to defend us during this invasion/plantation.

I am actively planning to move my family out of here within 2-3 years. I may sound like a hypocrite in doing this but the difference is i will be moving my family to a country where hard work is appreciated and i will be doing so in a legal fashion vs illegally and claiming every benefit under the sun like an entitled leech (what is happening in Ireland right now).

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

It matters because firstly it allows greedy business owners who break the law and hire them and pay them off the books, thus meaning one less job for an irish person who should be paid the minimum wage at least.

If these illegals were not here, who knows maybe more jobs for the people paying actual tax.

Actually, there are a lot of staff in care homes who are on the books and are paying taxes who are illegal.

Bambi wrote: »

Here's a more obvious question: If they're here illegally, why does it matter?

Why does what matter?

Bambi wrote: »

Here's a more obvious question: If they're here illegally, why does it matter?

It matters because firstly it allows greedy business owners who break the law and hire them and pay them off the books, thus meaning one less job for an irish person who should be paid the minimum wage at least.

If these illegals were not here, who knows maybe more jobs for the people paying actual tax.

Dyr

bubblypop wrote: »

So?
They are here now, illegally. Looking after themselves. Why assume that would change?

Here's a more obvious question: If they're here illegally, why does it matter?

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Well they are hardly smuggling in , in the back of trucks to work as brain surgeons.

So?
They are here now, illegally. Looking after themselves. Why assume that would change?

bubblypop wrote: »

Seriously?
I know they are illegal, the question is why do you assume they will jump into dole queues and housing queues if/when they are made legal?

Well they are hardly smuggling in , in the back of trucks to work as brain surgeons.

Swindled wrote: »

You do know that you don't have to be on the dole to be eligible for social housing?
Or are you going to tell us that any illegal undocumented immigrants being paid under the table and off the books by unscrupulous employers, or those that were "self employed entrepreneurs" are in fact highly paid "Doctors and Engineers and Professionals" ?

Obviously.
Which is why I asked the question about dole queues and housing queues, two different queues.

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

do I really have to point out to you the people who are here illegally SHOULD NOT BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE ??

So it is hardly a shock to comprehend they cannot go and sign on or apply for housing.....because ...wait for it....they should not be here illegally.

One member seems to think we have no one in this country illegally....let that sink in.

Seriously?
I know they are illegal, the question is why do you assume they will jump into dole queues and housing queues if/when they are made legal?

bubblypop wrote: »

Why do posters think that people who are living here, illegally, and are clearly looking after themselves are suddenly going to throw themselves into dole queues and housing queues?

do I really have to point out to you the people who are here illegally SHOULD NOT BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE ??

So it is hardly a shock to comprehend they cannot go and sign on or apply for housing.....because ...wait for it....they should not be here illegally.

One member seems to think we have no one in this country illegally....let that sink in.

Swindled

bubblypop wrote: »

Why do posters think that people who are living here, illegally, and are clearly looking after themselves are suddenly going to throw themselves into dole queues and housing queues?

You do know that you don't have to be on the dole to be eligible for social housing?
Or are you going to tell us that any illegal undocumented immigrants being paid under the table and off the books by unscrupulous employers, or those that were "self employed entrepreneurs" are in fact highly paid "Doctors and Engineers and Professionals" ?

Why do posters think that people who are living here, illegally, and are clearly looking after themselves are suddenly going to throw themselves into dole queues and housing queues?