United Ireland Poll - please vote

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here we go. The predictable misrepresentation. Nobody said 'or else'' jh79.

Why not go all in and insinuate that people will be intimidated to vote yes by droves of white bearded men descending from the hills of Antrim.

That's why I think it's so funny. Vague enough to give the impression of violence which isn't a realistic proposition at all anyways.

Nothing of importance changes.

We could remove the "aspiration" thing but there really is no need. The flag is fine as is. And History is just that, History. Politics will reflect the electorate as it always does.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You want consequences-free outcomes. The world doesn't work that way.

You simply can't wish away that this country's foundations were built by people with a vision for a 32 county Republic, if you reject that then the foundations become shaky.

See, if you think about it, people in the north were victimised by partition, all of us were, but particularly them. So they vote to unify the country in the north, and you want people in the south to victimise people all over again by saying 'no' and expect everyone to just shrug and say 'ah well'? Who is being realistic here?

Spit it out, what are these consequences?

jh79 wrote: »

Spit it out, what are these consequences?

I've been laying them out this last couple of pages, I'm not going over them again. There would be a political crisis and everything that goes with it. One thing is for sure, it won't be 'back to normal' the day after which is what you lot covet.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

That's why I think it's so funny. Vague enough to give the impression of violence which isn't a realistic proposition at all anyways.

Nothing of importance changes.

We could remove the "aspiration" thing but there really is no need. The flag is fine as is. And History is just that, History. Politics will reflect the electorate as it always does.

From the GFA to Easter commemorations there would be implications.

Totally naive to think their wouldn't be. The partitionist campaign is taking shape...'if we can't scare them we'll pretend voting no means everything stays the same'.

StupidLikeAFox

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You want consequences-free outcomes. The world doesn't work that way.

You simply can't wish away that this country's foundations were built by people with a vision for a 32 county Republic, if you reject that then the foundations become shaky.

See, if you think about it, people in the north were victimised by partition, all of us were, but particularly them. So they vote to unify the country in the north, and you want people in the south to victimise people all over again by saying 'no' and expect everyone to just shrug and say 'ah well'? Who is being realistic here?

This is all very vague. You haven't really said what you think the outcomes would be apart from a few administrative symbols like the flag, anthem etc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

From the GFA to Easter commemorations there would be implications.

Totally naive to think their wouldn't be. The partitionist campaign is taking shape...'if we can't scare them we'll pretend voting no means everything stays the same'.

What exactly with change in the South.

I mean real change rather than symbolic.

This line keeps getting spouted and nothing to back it up. It's like being on a merry go round on this thread

FrancieBrady wrote: »

From the GFA to Easter commemorations there would be implications.

Totally naive to think their wouldn't be. The partitionist campaign is taking shape...'if we can't scare them we'll pretend voting no means everything stays the same'.

Firstly, the GFA allows self determination so can't see the problem there.

Easter commerations not happening anymore is not something to fear. And personally not bothered. Just replace it with something appropriate for today's Republic.

JT is trying and failing with "Project Fear". To be fair to you I think you mean identity stuff will change. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me.

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

This is all very vague. You haven't really said what you think the outcomes would be apart from a few administrative symbols like the flag, anthem etc

And even they are unlikely to change.

You won't get an answer, we've asked a few times already.

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

This is all very vague. You haven't really said what you think the outcomes would be apart from a few administrative symbols like the flag, anthem etc

Well we're talking about the future here so I can't pretend to know exactly what the outcomes will be but I think a political crisis will be certain.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Well we're talking about the future here so I can't pretend to know exactly what the outcomes will be buy I think a political crisis will be certain.

Any chance you were a writer on Line of Duty?

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Well we're talking about the future here so I can't pretend to know exactly what the outcomes will be buy I think a political crisis will be certain.

How so. I mean our system of politics will remain the same, the parties will be the same.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Firstly, the GFA allows self determination so can't see the problem there.

Easter commerations not happening anymore is not something to fear. And personally not bothered. Just replaced it with something appropriate for today's Republic.

JT is trying and failing with "Project Fear". To be fair to you I think you mean identity stuff will change. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me.

The GFA is founded on the aspirations of the people of the north.

Southern partitionists propose rejecting the aspirations of Irish people there and delude themselves into thinking nothing changes.

jh79 wrote: »

Any chance you were a writer on Line of Duty?

'Fraid not, never watched the show. I'm more into watching documentaries, stuff based on reality.

jh79 wrote: »

Any chance you were a writer on Line of Duty?

I love how the posters inventing nonsense here are the ones claiming others are using project fear.

So we have established that nothing will really change in the south? I mean nobody has come up with anything that would constitute a change that will impact peoples actual lives yet.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The GFA is founded on the aspirations of the people of the north.

Southern partitionists propose rejecting the aspirations of Irish people there and delude themselves into thinking nothing changes.

So you don't believe in self determination, as written in the GFA, for the Republic?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The GFA is founded on the aspirations of the people of the north.

Southern partitionists propose rejecting the aspirations of Irish people there and delude themselves into thinking nothing changes.

Once again Francie what changes might that be.

Your not great at the old fear mongering it seems...

FileNotFound wrote: »

How so. I mean our system of politics will remain the same, the parties will be the same.

So FF/FG will still have unification as a pillar of their parties?

Will they still trace their heritage back to the War of Independence?

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

So FF/FG will still have unification as a pillar of their parties?

Will they still trace their heritage back to the War of Independence?

They'll adapt.

Sure didn't SF/IRA go from "Brits Out" to be British public servants.

FrancieBrady

FileNotFound wrote: »

Once again Francie what changes might that be.

Your not great at the old fear mongering it seems...

Not trying to spread 'fear' at all.

67% of the electorate here want a UI as per our constitutional aspiration.

It's you guys, the partitionists, who need to spread the fear to bring that figure down.

The 'do you want to pay more tax' one won't last once people start talking about a plan we can all invest in and get behind.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

So FF/FG will still have unification as a pillar of their parties?

Will they still trace their heritage back to the War of Independence?

Well since they originate from the war of independence and are active in an independent state I guess they most certainly will, why do you think a future choice will rewrite history???

Does FF & FG not having unification as a pillar of their parties change anything in the South day to day? I mean we are discussing a case where their electorate reject it...

Would they even have to change it or could they look to discuss unification again far down the line?

I admit you seem a bit confused.

jimmycrackcorm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You want consequences-free outcomes. The world doesn't work that way.

You simply can't wish away that this country's foundations were built by people with a vision for a 32 county Republic, if you reject that then the foundations become shaky.

See, if you think about it, people in the north were victimised by partition, all of us were, but particularly them. So they vote to unify the country in the north, and you want people in the south to victimise people all over again by saying 'no' and expect everyone to just shrug and say 'ah well'? Who is being realistic here?

We're a long way from those days - might as well try to convince us we should go back to dancing at the crossroads. Now it's more likely that NI will reject unification because soft northern nationalists won't want to lose their NHS.

There's an even bigger risk if the North begins to do better economically from its links to both GB and the EU.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Ireland is one country, all 32 counties of it. You're speaking to the current 26 county state which resulted from partition of the country. The clue is in the description 'partition'. I'm from Cork.

Is that taken from a 19th century pamphlet?

jh79 wrote: »

They'll adapt.

'It'll be grand sure'. Honestly, you lads are a hoot.

Sure didn't SF/IRA go from "Brits Out" to be British public servants.

I don't give a shit about SF. This exemplifies the problems with you lads, you think this is all about SF, your obsessive hatred has your thinking all clouded.

This is much more important than SF. This United Ireland thing has been centuries in the making and is bigger than any individual or political party.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not trying to spread 'fear' at all.

67% of the electorate here want a UI as per our constitutional aspiration.

It's you guys, the partitionists, who need to spread the fear to bring that figure down.

The 'do you want to pay more tax' one won't last once people start talking about a plan we can all invest in and get behind.

I'm a republican, and a supporter of democracy. Should a vote to unite give a yes then that will get my full support.

Once the actual discussion starts I can see a No vote actually happening. Either is good by me as it will be a democratic decision.

Sure if someone presents a plan that shows us prosper they will get my full support. Only catch is nobody has done that or seems inclined to yet. Why is that?

Also grammatically speaking are you not now a unionist who wants a union???

blanch152 wrote: »

Is that taken from a 19th century pamphlet?

He admitted earlier he is confused.

I think he is so confused he mixed up "country" with the word "island"

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

'It'll be grand sure'. Honestly, you lads are a hoot.

I don't give a shit about SF. This exemplifies the problems with you lads, you think this is all about SF, your obsessive hatred has your thinking all clouded.

This is much more important than SF. This United Ireland thing has been centuries in the making and is bigger than any individual or political party.

But if SF with members such as Kelly and Murphy can work for the British given their past, hardly a stretch to think FF/FG would also adapt to accept the Republic as it is.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

'It'll be grand sure'. Honestly, you lads are a hoot.

I don't give a shit about SF. This exemplifies the problems with you lads, you think this is all about SF, your obsessive hatred has your thinking all clouded.

This is much more important than SF. This United Ireland thing has been centuries in the making and is bigger than any individual or political party.

At least we are not confused - still awaiting the significant changes that will happen in the Republic post a No vote.

I mean actual meaningful ones.

jh79 wrote: »

But if SF with members such as Kelly and Murphy can work for the British given their past, hardly a stretch to think FF/FG would also adapt to accept the Republic as it is.

No idea who Kelly and Murphy are, sorry.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

No idea who Kelly and Murphy are, sorry.

Gerry and Conor. Gerry shot some guy in the head escaping prison but is now on the board of the PSNI.

If he can adapt to and work for the British surely the average FG memeber could accept a 26 county Republic.