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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

Mod:

I have updated the OP of this thread with a list of threadbanned users, I would advise posters to check on this before posting in the thread again or a forum sanction will be imposed for breaching same.

If you want to discuss your threadban feel free to PM the banning mod (or myself if you can't remember who that is and I'll point you in the right direction).

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Comments

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

But just seems really naive.

First of all does population need to increase? and why?
This question in incredibly important when looking to decide how immigration policy will work.

We need to increase population so people can work in low paid jobs Irish dont want (a stupid reason, but one given by people) is widely different to we need to get skilled workers to attract more multinationals and increase tax take?

And if we do need it, we have a common travel area with hundreds of millions within the EU (over which we have very little control already) and is already massively multicultural.

And before people jump on me that is not attack on any religion, colour, race, sexual preference etc but rather an acknowledgement that our current common travel area is massively multi cultural already (and has its own good and bad points).

You should add that Europe already has a significant population who are long-term unemployed, and while there are some initiatives to encourage movement of labor, a lot more could be done. There is no need for non-EU immigration to fill low skilled roles, because there's already millions of unemployed within the borders of the EU.

As for a need for the population to increase, we don't. Ireland is not a manufacturing or agricultural based economy. We don't have any significant labor intensive industries for low skilled workers. Our services industry is likely the main target for such workers, but with automation coming into effect, companies will have the option to decrease their need for staff.... and that's without considering the coming recession, which will likely decrease the demand for most such services, leading to a decline in employment. There is a case to be made for immigration of high skilled workers, and I don't think anyone is against that...

The problem with immigration is that it's long term. The goal of the pro-immigration crowd, is not to attract "expats" who stay a few years, and then move on to another country to work. They're not seeking temporary workers who are tied to their visas, and expected to leave once the visa ends. They're seeking people to settle in Ireland, have families, and never leave again.

Where are the jobs for these people? Not lowly paid jobs that barely provide a living... where are the jobs that will provide them with the money to save, and provide a standard of living comparable with the average Irish person?

There is an obligation with this type of immigration, since the objective is to increase the population for the long term. Can this nation provide the opportunities for these people to grow, and remain completely independent of State support? I don't believe it can. A drive through the towns and cities outside of Dublin, and you'll see closed businesses all over the place. The people who were employed previously, do we know that they've all regained work? I doubt it. So, we should increase the demands on the employment market, when we have no assurance that the availability of reliable work will increase?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

once again, debt is the money supply, in order to expand our economy, we must also expand the money supply, i.e. increase debt, always baring in mind, reducing debt, reduces the money supply, as the act of paying off debt, is the destruction of money itself

Debt is only part of the money supply for the government, and the economy is not reliant on the government for it to expand. Private business is the core element towards the expansion of the economy (since we're not using State Capitalism), and while debt can play a role in that expansion for these businesses, often it's not.

You're using the logic that politicians and economists have used to justify the increasing use of debt. It's just one theory, and you seem to be combining the economics for both the State and private, when they operate under different constraints. In terms of the State, yes, reducing debt, leads to the removal of money.. but that's not the case with private investment, since private investment can be profitable, and retain the value through investment and growth. Therefore expanding the economy increases taxes, providing the government the means to pay off the interest on debt or the debt amount itself. (If properly managed, which it hasn't been)

There is no requirement for a nation to be in debt, which is what your quoted piece above suggests. Debt beyond a reasonable amount is simply bad management. (Reasonable being that it's repayable easily)

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh for sure, I don't know do we need to increase at all.
But if we do, I don't see how it matters where that increase comes from.

But just seems really naive.

First of all does population need to increase? and why?
This question in incredibly important when looking to decide how immigration policy will work.

We need to increase population so people can work in low paid jobs Irish dont want (a stupid reason, but one given by people) is widely different to we need to get skilled workers to attract more multinationals and increase tax take?

And if we do need it, we have a common travel area with hundreds of millions within the EU (over which we have very little control already) and is already massively multicultural.

And before people jump on me that is not attack on any religion, colour, race, sexual preference etc but rather an acknowledgement that our current common travel area is massively multi cultural already (and has its own good and bad points).

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Maybe that's the first thing to question. Why are we looking to increase our population (and simultaneously reduce our carbon output and solve housing)?

Oh for sure, I don't know do we need to increase at all.
But if we do, I don't see how it matters where that increase comes from.

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh I'm not saying we do, that's just a random number 'if we need'
I have no idea of what numbers increase, if any, we do actually need.

Maybe that's the first thing to question. Why are we looking to increase our population (and simultaneously reduce our carbon output and solve housing)?

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Why do we need 20 percent extra?

Oh I'm not saying we do, that's just a random number 'if we need'
I have no idea of what numbers increase, if any, we do actually need.

bubblypop wrote: »

Ok.
So, if there is a need for a rise in population, why does it matter where those numbers come from?
If we need 20% extra, does it matter if that extra 20% come from Ireland or elsewhere?

Why do we need 20 percent extra?

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I see it's gone up from the 650 million or so that we were still spending during the recession years which was insanity given that we were borrowing to do it and adding massively to the national debt at the time.

791 million during a period of economic stagnation as a result of the pandemic and further massive debt added to the national total, with more pain ahead as we face the bill of the last year is even more ridiculous.

once again, debt is the money supply, in order to expand our economy, we must also expand the money supply, i.e. increase debt, always baring in mind, reducing debt, reduces the money supply, as the act of paying off debt, is the destruction of money itself

Strumms wrote: »

2020 : 869.87 million

2019 : 791.63 million

Those are our overseas aid spends for those years... mad...

I see it's gone up from the 650 million or so that we were still spending during the recession years which was insanity given that we were borrowing to do it and adding massively to the national debt at the time.

791 million during a period of economic stagnation as a result of the pandemic and further massive debt added to the national total, with more pain ahead as we face the bill of the last year is even more ridiculous.

DerekC16 wrote: »

I've answers alright but not ones you or the boards mods will like so we will leave it there.

Exactly.

bubblypop wrote: »

I have asked simple questions, which you will not reply to. I can only assume you cannot back up your responses with any actual evidence.
If you do not have answers, that's fair enough.
Enjoy your day

I've answers alright but not ones you or the boards mods will like so we will leave it there.

DerekC16 wrote: »

No it's not that, I've seen your style of debating on here, over-emotional stuff and trying to get people banned. I'll pass.

I have asked simple questions, which you will not reply to. I can only assume you cannot back up your responses with any actual evidence.
If you do not have answers, that's fair enough.
Enjoy your day

bubblypop wrote: »

If you just can't back up your arguments, that's fair enough

No it's not that, I've seen your style of debating on here, over-emotional stuff and trying to get people banned. I'll pass.

DerekC16 wrote: »

Theres a fairly lengthy thread on going at the moment on boards discussing the housing list. Sure have a read through it there. And relax with the questions you arent in an interview room now garda.

If you just can't back up your arguments, that's fair enough

DerekC16 wrote: »

Theyre both ****holes. London in particular has had multiple terrorist attacks and is on constant alert. No thanks.

They are great cities and you obviously don't know them well.
Actually, Birmingham is not my favourite place! personal taste.
But London is a great city.

I don't think anyone in Ireland needs to be worried about foreign terror attacks too much, if you don't lose sleep over domestic terror attacks, you don't need to lose sleep over foreign attacks.

bubblypop wrote: »

Too many foreigners clogging up the housing lists? For social housing is it?
How many foreigners are on those lists, how does it compare to Irish persons on the lists?
Where are those foreigners from?
What is your definition of a foreigner? Seeing as how you think I'm an immigrant?

Any issue with how many skilled immigrants we allow?

Theres a fairly lengthy thread on going at the moment on boards discussing the housing list. Sure have a read through it there. And relax with the questions you arent in an interview room now garda.

DerekC16 wrote: »

It matters to me theres already too many foreigners in Ireland clogging up the housing list. I'd prefer only skilled immigrants to be allowed in.

Too many foreigners clogging up the housing lists? For social housing is it?
How many foreigners are on those lists, how does it compare to Irish persons on the lists?
Where are those foreigners from?
What is your definition of a foreigner? Seeing as how you think I'm an immigrant?

Any issue with how many skilled immigrants we allow?

bubblypop wrote: »

What's wrong with Birmingham or London?

Theyre both ****holes. London in particular has had multiple terrorist attacks and is on constant alert. No thanks.

bubblypop wrote: »

Ok.
So, if there is a need for a rise in population, why does it matter where those numbers come from?
If we need 20% extra, does it matter if that extra 20% come from Ireland or elsewhere?

It matters to me theres already too many foreigners in Ireland clogging up the housing list. I'd prefer only skilled immigrants to be allowed in.

DerekC16 wrote: »

Or we can keep importing immigrants and turn Dublin and Cork into Birmingham and London.

What's wrong with Birmingham or London?

DerekC16 wrote: »

Nope not at all.

Ok.
So, if there is a need for a rise in population, why does it matter where those numbers come from?
If we need 20% extra, does it matter if that extra 20% come from Ireland or elsewhere?

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I thought you wanted immigrants to integrate and take part in Irish society. .

Nah, it wasnt me that said that pal.

DerekC16 wrote: »

It doesn't matter to you because you are an immigrant. How many children have you got?

I thought you wanted immigrants to integrate and take part in Irish society.

But yet here you are assuming a poster is an immigrant and telling them to them stay out of Irish matters.

Why would you respond in the manner you did even if bubblypop was an immigrant.

bubblypop wrote: »

No I'm not an immigrant. I'm Irish by birth.
Do you think my views as an Irish person, living and paying taxes in Ireland are less than someone who was born here?

Nope not at all.

DerekC16 wrote: »

So you emigrated to Ireland but arent an immigrant. Ok gotcha.

No I'm not an immigrant. I'm Irish by birth.
Do you think my views as an Irish person, living and paying taxes in Ireland are less than someone who was born here?

bubblypop wrote: »

I was born elsewhere, but I'm not an immigrant, that your bias showing!
I don't have any problem with encouraging Irish people to have kids, what's the problem with other people filling the void, if we need them?

So you emigrated to Ireland but arent an immigrant. Ok gotcha.

DerekC16 wrote: »

The exclamation mark you edited out from the end of your sentence tells me it's a touchy subject, I apologise for offending you I thought you had said in another thread you were born elsewhere.

What is your problem with encouraging the Irish people to have children in order to replace ourselves rather than looking for people to come from abroad to fix our declining population.

I was born elsewhere, but I'm not an immigrant, that your bias showing!
I don't have any problem with encouraging Irish people to have kids, what's the problem with other people filling the void, if we need them?

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not an immigrant.

The exclamation mark you edited out from the end of your sentence tells me it's a touchy subject, I apologise for offending you I thought you had said in another thread you were born elsewhere.

What is your problem with encouraging the Irish people to have children in order to replace ourselves rather than looking for people to come from abroad to fix our declining population.

DerekC16 wrote: »

It doesn't matter to you because you are an immigrant. How many children have you got?

I'm not an immigrant.

bubblypop wrote: »

Why?
If we do actually 'need' more people, why would it matter where they are from?
If it's purely a numbers thing, does it matter where those numbers come from?

It doesn't matter to you because you are an immigrant. How many children have you got?